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Old 29th Mar 2024, 14:56
  #1841 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Which doesn't explain why Ryanair have numerous UK bases with Irish registered aircraft.
Has it perhaps got to do with special arrangements that exist for Irish citizens to live and work in UK perhaps?

Surely so far as EU registered aircraft are concerned provided they operate exclusively between UK and EU airports, so not for example Tirana or Agadir its all good. If so then surely Jet2 could base aircraft at PMI and employ EU pilots with UK licences? Or is that just too simple?
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Old 29th Mar 2024, 14:57
  #1842 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Which doesn't explain why Ryanair have numerous UK bases with Irish registered aircraft.
There is a large enough workforce in the U.K. with EASA licences. The EI reg aircraft are not permitted to fly on inter-uk commercial operations, they do have the U.K. AOC for that purpose and I understand have a shortage of U.K. licensed crew. Thats a very simple way of explaining how Ryanair get around it, I’m sure there are other aspects too.
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Old 29th Mar 2024, 15:58
  #1843 (permalink)  
 
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There seems to be a lot of confusion about the impact of Brexit and some of the preceding posts are mixing up factors which are Brexit related with things that have absolutely nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU.

I've had a try at explaining some of this before, but admittedly not on this particular forum, so here goes...

Firstly, easyJet Europe (Austria), Ryanair UK, Wizz Air UK, Aer Lingus UK etc were set up entirely as a result of Brexit. Post-Brexit, easyJet cannot use their UK AOC to fly EU-EU sectors (regardless of where the aircraft and crew are 'based' - whatever that means!). Likewise Ryanair, Wizz etc cannot use an EU AOC to fly between the UK and a point outside the EU, or operate UK domestic sectors.

Ryanair's Maltese and Polish subsidiaries, and indeed the plethora of Malta AOCs set up by other EU operators, are nothing to do with Brexit, but purely to reduce costs.

Taking the Iberia question above, there is nothing to stop Iberia 'basing' aircraft in the UK (so that the first sector of the day is UK-EU and the last sector EU-UK). Plenty of operators do that anyway in order to operate an early morning departure to their main hub. Another example of a European operator basing aircraft in the UK is Polish charter airline Enter Air who have based an aircraft at Gatwick for many summers to operate charter flights for smaller UK tour operators. Brexit hasn't changed their right to do this.

In the post-Brexit world, traffic rights are determined purely by the nationality of the operator and the origin and destination of the route, not by where the aircraft is nominally based, if that can even be determined.

As far as the TUI/Enter Air JV is concerned, I believe Fly4 Airlines was set up because TUI was rather dissatisfied with the reliability of some of their previous ACMI providers, and wanted to have more direct control over the aircraft that are wet-leased in for the summer season. As far as what is and isn't allowed since Brexit, there is no difference between TUI Airways wet-leasing aircraft from an Irish AOC holder and a Latvian, Lithuanian or Slovakian one.


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Old 29th Mar 2024, 16:19
  #1844 (permalink)  
 
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Great summing up there, many thanks.

I had too, wondered about the Enter Air operation for small tour operators at LGW these past few years.

I am mindful still though as to whether Iberia could set up a crew base at LHR, but bow to your kind post.
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Old 29th Mar 2024, 16:32
  #1845 (permalink)  
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Sewushr, thanks for taking the time to explain succinctly. So my suspicions about the possibility of Jet2 basing aircraft in Spain as per pre-Brexit are that it would come down to having crew with U.K. licences being able to live or spend enough time in those Spanish destinations? Because any positioning flights would be non revenue there would be no problem doing so on G-Reg aircraft.

The issue is solely one of cabotage within the EU. I would therefore not be surprised to see some Spanish bases purely for the purpose of adding resilience into the operation. Not suggesting this will open up W patterns, or routes to non U.K. bases.
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Old 29th Mar 2024, 16:36
  #1846 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Why would it be different to RYR, have they get some sort of dispensation? And RYR have opened UK bases since Brexit.
I believe they got dispensation and were treated as an exception but ISTBC. There would have been one helluva cost into putting whole UK fleet onto the new UK AOC, that being said, easyJet had to do exactly that to non UK bases which went to a new Austrian AOC. The UK chose to allow Ryanair to remain based in the UK with an EU AOC, the EU did not reciprocate, (why would they?) Ryanair UK exists only for UK domestic and UK to non EU. SAS Connect also have a similar legacy base at LHR.
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Old 29th Mar 2024, 16:59
  #1847 (permalink)  
 
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Ryanair is on an Irish AOC and that is treated differently by the UK as its part of the Common Travel Area.

That was my understanding anyway.
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Old 29th Mar 2024, 17:19
  #1848 (permalink)  
 
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All of this years leased aircraft except G-VYGM are now in daily operation
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Old 29th Mar 2024, 18:25
  #1849 (permalink)  
 
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I'm sorry Skipness, I think you are missing the point and still seem to be fixated on the idea of bases. Ryanair don't need to have all of their aircraft, or any of them in fact, on a UK AOC to fly between the UK and EU, regardless of whether many of their aircraft overnight at Stansted. easyJet could, in theory, base aircraft at an EU airport but they would only be able to fly from that airport to the UK, not to another place in the EU. Hardly worth them bothering as they can do the same with UK originating aircraft.

The rights are reciprocal. The EU (as a whole) is one market and the UK is another. Operators from both sides can fly between one block (market) and the other, but not entirely within the other party's block. The EU is a much larger 'single market' than the UK of course, which makes it seem that EU operators are getting a better deal. But it is definitely not the case that the UK grants privileges to European operators that are not on offer to UK operators in Europe
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Old 30th Mar 2024, 08:40
  #1850 (permalink)  
 
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Article here says that Jet2 are looking for flight crew redundancies

A spokesperson for Jet2 ... "We have recently reviewed our operations in Spain. As a result, we must sadly propose several colleague redundancies across Resort Flight Check-in, Flight Deck and Cabin Crew roles.


Jet2 to axe popular holiday service for Brits while putting hundreds of jobs at risk (msn.com)

Seems somewhat inconsistent with their expansion of fleet, and other accounts of difficulties in getting enough crew.
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Old 30th Mar 2024, 08:56
  #1851 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Article here says that Jet2 are looking for flight crew redundancies



Jet2 to axe popular holiday service for Brits while putting hundreds of jobs at risk (msn.com)

Seems somewhat inconsistent with their expansion of fleet, and other accounts of difficulties in getting enough crew.
The story only appears to be in The Mirror and copied and pasted across the Reach group that includes the notoriously reliable (not) Express and regional titles. So far Simon Calder doesn't seem to have picked up on it in the Independent.

Not really surprised about resort check in facing the axe, perhaps not enough people were taking it up.
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Old 30th Mar 2024, 11:12
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Reported elsewhere that Jet2 Holidays have decided to stop offering their in-resort check-in to their customers and this will result in redundancies amongst their overseas staff - I think I saw rçthe figure of 600 redundancies quoted. No mention of any redunancies amongs cabin or flight crew. Somebody jumping to the wrong conclusion?
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Old 30th Mar 2024, 11:21
  #1853 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VLCfkight
Reported elsewhere that Jet2 Holidays have decided to stop offering their in-resort check-in to their customers and this will result in redundancies amongst their overseas staff - I think I saw the figure of 600 redundancies quoted. No mention of any redundancies amongst cabin or flight crew. Somebody jumping to the wrong conclusion?
Seems a bit of a gross media blunder if so - one would expect an immediate retraction from Jet2.
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Old 30th Mar 2024, 11:28
  #1854 (permalink)  
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Sewushr Thank you for the carefully set out explanations. You might need to repeat them in other forums ...
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Old 30th Mar 2024, 11:29
  #1855 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure what you mean - the article contains a direct quote from a Jet2 spokesperson. Are you saying that is incorrect?

A spokesperson for Jet2 would not say if the check-in service would stop when asked, or, if it will, when. They would also not be drawn on whether the redundancies and service ending are connecting. They said: "We have recently reviewed our operations in Spain. As a result, we must sadly propose several colleague redundancies across Resort Flight Check-in, Flight Deck and Cabin Crew roles. We deeply regret these proposed redundancies, and we will be consulting with appropriate representatives of the affected Colleagues to ensure that all options are fully considered.”
The 600 figure was for Border Force

In April 600 Border Force workers are due to walk out over proposed changes to shifts.
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Old 30th Mar 2024, 13:47
  #1856 (permalink)  
 
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From what I understand they are closing their overseas bases. I think thats ALC and PMI but not sure. I think its Brexit related.
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Old 30th Mar 2024, 14:27
  #1857 (permalink)  
 
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Remember Philip Meeson has gone, things were bound to change with a new Chairman in charge.
The NEOs are proving to be very costly currently and will do for many years whilst engineering get to grips with them, crew retrain etc. Aka the older 737s brought in which are cheap and spare parts plentiful.
Every area will be under cost checking now so profits are maintained.
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Old 30th Mar 2024, 17:59
  #1858 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pabely
The NEOs are proving to be very costly currently and will do for many years
Not sure ‘very costly’ is necessarily the case when not privy to the new customer large order enticement deal which presumably was including training and initial maintenance etc.
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Old 30th Mar 2024, 18:18
  #1859 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VickersVicount
Not sure ‘very costly’ is necessarily the case when not privy to the new customer large order enticement deal which presumably was including training and initial maintenance etc.
Plus the NEOs are saving tonnes of fuel each sector versus their Boeing 757 predecessors, which helps to offset against any new model associated increased costs.
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Old 30th Mar 2024, 18:51
  #1860 (permalink)  
 
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I'm sorry Skipness, I think you are missing the point and still seem to be fixated on the idea of bases. Ryanair don't need to have all of their aircraft, or any of them in fact, on a UK AOC to fly between the UK and EU
That's not what I said. The UK AOC exists as post Brexit, Ryanair cannot fly UK domestics or UK to non EU on the Irish AOC.
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