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Old 30th Mar 2024, 23:54
  #1861 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pabely
The NEOs are proving to be very costly currently and will do for many years.
Youíre just making things up there
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 07:04
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I believe they got dispensation and were treated as an exception but ISTBC. There would have been one helluva cost into putting whole UK fleet onto the new UK AOC, that being said, easyJet had to do exactly that to non UK bases which went to a new Austrian AOC. The UK chose to allow Ryanair to remain based in the UK with an EU AOC, the EU did not reciprocate, (why would they?)
Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot
That's not what I said. The UK AOC exists as post Brexit, Ryanair cannot fly UK domestics or UK to non EU on the Irish AOC.
Though still no clarafication about how RYR's Stansted base (and all the other RYR UK bases) is different to a Jet2 base in PMI or ALC (or an Iberia base at LHR)
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 07:14
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Originally Posted by 1889LS
Youíre just making things up there
Quite agree. NEOís are one of the - if not the - lowest cost aircraft you can operate on a per seat basis and certainly far more efficient than the 738ís they replace.

The MAX may have a slight upper hand on the per seat cost when compared to the NEO but still better than the existing Jet2 fleet.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 07:35
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Originally Posted by shamrock7seal
Quite agree. NEOís are one of the - if not the - lowest cost aircraft you can operate on a per seat basis and certainly far more efficient than the 738ís they replace.

The MAX may have a slight upper hand on the per seat cost when compared to the NEO but still better than the existing Jet2 fleet.
That's not the point that was being made - Pabely was referring to additional costs while introducing a new fleet type, not long term efficiency
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 07:59
  #1865 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
That's not the point that was being made - Pabely was referring to additional costs while introducing a new fleet type, not long term efficiency
I'm sure Airbus will have offered them a sweetener
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 09:08
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G-SUNH first revenue flight to Grenoble.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 09:11
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Originally Posted by 1889LS
G-SUNH first revenue flight to Grenoble.
I wonder if the cockpits have that wonderful 'new car' smell?
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 09:46
  #1868 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jonty
From what I understand they are closing their overseas bases. I think that's ALC and PMI but not sure. I think its Brexit related.
I don't think Jet2 have had any flight bases in Spain since before lockdown (when I think it was confined to Alicante). All their Spanish flights are straight in there and back out again.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 09:49
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Originally Posted by WHBM
I don't think Jet2 have had any flight bases in Spain since before lockdown (when I think it was confined to Alicante). All their Spanish flights are straight in there and back out again.
I think they had one posted in the Canaries too to cope with any aircraft going sick out there. Can't remember if it was Tenerife or Gran Canaria
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 10:01
  #1870 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 1889LS
Youíre just making things up there
Do some spanner work on a NEO, it's not always about how much gas it guzzles!
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 10:14
  #1871 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pabely
Do some spanner work on a NEO, it's not always about how much gas it guzzles!
Not to mention the cost of the aircraft itself. Itíll be a long time before the fuel savings of a NEO offset the increase in lease/loan costs compared to an owned and paid off aircraft.

And thereís certainly no way these expensive aircraft can spend half the winter parked up like the current fleet. Good luck filling 70 232-seat aircraft on a Wednesday in January.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 10:37
  #1872 (permalink)  
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Don't TUI UK have a winter seasonal base in Tenerife? I imagine Jet2 would do something similar again. I know they had bases in Alicante and Palma, both with 2 aircraft each if I remember rightly. Don't remember Jet2 ever having bases in the Canaries but might be wrong.

The other benefit of doing it besides resilience for tech aircraft down route is that it allows them to fly off peak into the UK. As airports like MAN and STN, and probably most of their UK bases in fact, are full overnight they can only grow by upgauging to the 321 neos or by basing aircraft overseas and flying them into the UK.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 10:44
  #1873 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pabely
Do some spanner work on a NEO, it's not always about how much gas it guzzles!
no it isnít, but your comparing apples and oranges.
to start the 737 to compete capacity wise with the 321 is the Max-10, which you canít actually get.
then add in the 28Kn engines of the 737 compared to the 35Kn engines of the 321, and you have a much more useable aircraft performance wise.
then think about where the 737 is going after the MAX, and the damage that another Max accident could do to the 737, and all the issues Boeing has. And it ends up being a bit no brainer.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 12:40
  #1874 (permalink)  
 
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OK Skipness, fair enough, but this is what you did say (I'll have one more try at explaining this, then bow out!)

'There would have been one helluva cost into putting whole UK fleet onto the new UK AOC, that being said, easyJet had to do exactly that to non UK bases which went to a new Austrian AOC. The UK chose to allow Ryanair to remain based in the UK with an EU AOC, the EU did not reciprocate, (why would they?)'

That suggests you thought there was a requirement for Ryanair to place all of their 'UK-based' aircraft on a UK AOC to operate between the UK and EU, which is obviously not the case. easyJet had to set up the Austrian AOC to operate EU-EU flights, in the same way that Ryanair UK was created to fly the UK domestics and flights to non-EU points. You've recognised this, but still seem to think there is some inconsistency between an EU operator no longer being allowed to fly UK domestic routes and a UK AOC holder no longer being allowed to fly internal EU routes. There is nothing to stop easyJet basing G- reg aircraft at EU airports and flying from those bases exclusively to the UK (in the same way that Ryanair bases aircraft in the UK to fly exclusively to the EU), but from a EZY Group perspective, it is far simpler for them to use the Austrian AOC for that. What some people seem to think of as 'unfair' is simply the result of the EU (27 States) being a far bigger single 'domestic' market than the UK. The rules are applied in a non-discriminatory way to operators from both sides.


And I'll repeat, the whole concept of 'bases' is irrelevant as far as the Air Services Agreement between the UK and EU is concerned. It matters not where an aircraft sits overnight, only which routes it operates.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 15:39
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In resort check in

TBH I am suprised in resort check in made a comeback after covid,it seemed a good opportunity to get rid of it then.
We have used it a couple of times but didnt really see any great benefit from it especially at the airport where because jet2 usually have plenty of desks and staff,cases are not really an issue.
Each time we have been away since covid there seem to be less and less people using the service,last December in Lanzarote we chatted to the Jet2 staff at the hotel manning the drop off point and they admitted that some days there were no takers for the service,the cost of the resort staff, lorrys and drivers and no doubt insurance of bags etc that they were not charging the customers for makes you wonder it lasted as long as it did!
Maybe someone has looked at the accounts and asked where is the income to cover this service?
It was never a make or break for us in choosing who to fly with.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 16:00
  #1876 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Vokes55
Not to mention the cost of the aircraft itself. Itíll be a long time before the fuel savings of a NEO offset the increase in lease/loan costs compared to an owned and paid off aircraft.

And thereís certainly no way these expensive aircraft can spend half the winter parked up like the current fleet. Good luck filling 70 232-seat aircraft on a Wednesday in January.
A high proportion of the Neo fleet is going to be owned outright too.

When you own an aircraft you donít lose anything by parking it, aircraft life is definitely by pressurised cycles not months and years, less cycles = longer in the fleet making money.

Parts and maintenance for a brand new aircraft type will cost more in the short term yes, as they will have to be bought new and not salvaged from retired frames, or refurbished and moved around the fleet. However in 10 years time when usable 737NG parts will be on the decrease and there we be an absolute mountain of Neo spares available this will be the other way around. Not to mention J2 will have a young fleet requiring less maintenance anyway.

And thatís without even mentioning the performance and capacity advantages.

It really is clutching at straws trying to criticise a business for future proofing itself.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 19:00
  #1877 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 1889LS
A high proportion of the Neo fleet is going to be owned outright too.

When you own an aircraft you donít lose anything by parking it
So do you think Jet2 are getting these aircraft for free? Owned or leased, they still cost a lot of money every month.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 19:07
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Originally Posted by Vokes55
So do you think Jet2 are getting these aircraft for free? Owned or leased, they still cost a lot of money every month.
So whatís your solution? Keep buying second hand versions of an aircraft type that is no longer in production because theyíre a bit cheaper. But will cost you more on fuel, need more maintenance and will eventually be a nightmare to keep in the sky because the parts will become obsolete or increasingly expensive due to falling availability and exponentially rising age related failures. And then you'll be in a position where youíll have to replace an entire fleet all at once - while being in a worse financial situation anyway due to the lack of progressive modernisation and future proofing.

And thatís just looking at the maintenance side of things. You also need to look at improved economy, flexibility and growth that comes with upgrading.

When you make financial decisions youíve got to look further ahead than the end of your own nose.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 19:11
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Originally Posted by Vokes55
Not to mention the cost of the aircraft itself. Itíll be a long time before the fuel savings of a NEO offset the increase in lease/loan costs compared to an owned and paid off aircraft.

And thereís certainly no way these expensive aircraft can spend half the winter parked up like the current fleet. Good luck filling 70 232-seat aircraft on a Wednesday in January.
The NEOs are owned at the minute....with the cost amortized over the life of the plane....currently they will be worth more than they paid for them given the wait to get a new build NEO.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 19:39
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Originally Posted by 1889LS
So whatís your solution?
I donít care. Iím merely stating that they will need to fly more often than the current Jet2 fleet does for the fuel savings to come anywhere near offsetting the lease/purchase costs of expensive new aircraft.

Originally Posted by Kevgti
The NEOs are owned at the minute....with the cost amortized over the life of the plane....currently they will be worth more than they paid for them given the wait to get a new build NEO.
Only SUNB of the current fleet is owned, the rest are leased.
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