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Old 14th Feb 2023, 11:46
  #841 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LBAflyer22
Said poster later explains internal memo from Crew. Meanwhile Mr.Blunt over cannot back it up unless challenged.
What do you expect them to do? Start posting sensitive company info and potentially put themselves in trouble just to prove to you they are who they say they are?

What are your credentials exactly? What basis are you posting your information on? I haven't seen any of your posts backed up with evidence, You're acting like some sort of thread admin, check out what the R stands for in Pprune FFS.
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Old 14th Feb 2023, 11:59
  #842 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Yeehaw22
What do you expect them to do? Start posting sensitive company info and potentially put themselves in trouble just to prove to you they are who they say they are?

What are your credentials exactly? What basis are you posting your information on? I haven't seen any of your posts backed up with evidence, You're acting like some sort of thread admin, check out what the R stands for in Pprune FFS.
No I wouldn't but as you say there is a R in the PPRune - Rumour. If you've got the information maybe there is a polite way of putting that a member is wrong.

I've not exactly posted anything in defence nor been blunt with other members who are discussing - as you say discussing rumours. Meanwhile Mr blunt shuts it down without any clarity. Personally found it very rude considering, as you say, its a "RUMOUR" network.

I don't post information about the company which has not already been discussed previously or is sensitive. I discuss the rumours and/or give my opinion. Therefore I don't need credentials or to have a source to my information.
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Old 14th Feb 2023, 12:13
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Originally Posted by LBAflyer22
Therefore I don't need credentials or to have a source to my information.
But that's exactly what you're asking of others.
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Old 14th Feb 2023, 13:00
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We all know Jet2 are astute and therefore Cape Verde, should they want to look at it, would be assessed suitably. The only other option is to have the crew fly as passengers one way and swap with the crew that took the aircraft out. Long ol' day for both but if it legally works then it works. Reduces cost.[/QUOTE]

I suspect that the number of fatigue reports they received from the crews operating back would hopefully put a stop to that pretty quickly. The crew sitting in the cabin on the way out get no “rest”, and are just as tired arriving at the destination as the crew who operated out, more so in fact as the seats in the cabin are far less comfortable than on the flight deck, even on a 737. This tired crew then have to jump in the front and fly back. It maybe “legal” as they are technically only operating one sector thus extending the maximum flight duty period, but it certainly isn’t safe.
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Old 14th Feb 2023, 14:22
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I suspect that the number of fatigue reports they received from the crews operating back would hopefully put a stop to that pretty quickly. The crew sitting in the cabin on the way out get no “rest”, and are just as tired arriving at the destination as the crew who operated out, more so in fact as the seats in the cabin are far less comfortable than on the flight deck, even on a 737. This tired crew then have to jump in the front and fly back. It maybe “legal” as they are technically only operating one sector thus extending the maximum flight duty period, but it certainly isn’t safe.
Whilst operating a single sector increased your available FDP under JAR rules, unfortunately EASA groups 1 and 2 sectors together with the same available FDP.
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Old 14th Feb 2023, 15:14
  #846 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Oceanic815
Whilst operating a single sector increased your available FDP under JAR rules, unfortunately EASA groups 1 and 2 sectors together with the same available FDP.
As a crew member I see no reason for that to be “unfortunate” but maybe it is for an airline manager who wants to reduce costs or a passenger who wants cheaper flights.

Lets hope that post Brexit the U.K. CAA don’t at some point to ditch the EASA rules…

And to go back to the original idea I was replying to that will at least stop it from happening as there would be no advantage. In dead heading the crew out, But I understand that TUI also operate from U.K. to Cape Verde and back on a 737 MAX in one crew rotation, so under whatever rules they use it should be possible on a 737-800 as well as on an Airbus.
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Old 14th Feb 2023, 15:19
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Originally Posted by excrab
As a crew member I see no reason for that to be “unfortunate” but maybe it is for an airline manager who wants to reduce costs or a passenger who wants cheaper flights.

Lets hope that post Brexit the U.K. CAA don’t at some point to ditch the EASA rules…

And to go back to the original idea I was replying to that will at least stop it from happening as there would be no advantage. In dead heading the crew out, But I understand that TUI also operate from U.K. to Cape Verde and back on a 737 MAX in one crew rotation, so under whatever rules they use it should be possible on a 737-800 as well as on an Airbus.
CAA rules are often more stringent than EASA rules... infact many EASA documents were formed from CAA rules. However i digress...
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Old 14th Feb 2023, 16:39
  #848 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LBAflyer22
Said poster later explains internal memo from Crew. Meanwhile Mr.Blunt over cannot back it up unless challenged.

You work where Manchester airport for Jet2? Your aware that things do change behind the scenes at pace and whilst you've been told one thing by the end of the week it could quite well be another.

You never know what the company are up to unless you're the MD or a director or sit within the planning team.
No, I don’t work at MAN. Yes, I am very aware of how things change behind the scenes, Funnily enough I do know what the company are up to at least some of the time.

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Old 14th Feb 2023, 16:41
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Originally Posted by excrab
As a crew member I see no reason for that to be “unfortunate” but maybe it is for an airline manager who wants to reduce costs or a passenger who wants cheaper flights.

Lets hope that post Brexit the U.K. CAA don’t at some point to ditch the EASA rules…

And to go back to the original idea I was replying to that will at least stop it from happening as there would be no advantage. In dead heading the crew out, But I understand that TUI also operate from U.K. to Cape Verde and back on a 737 MAX in one crew rotation, so under whatever rules they use it should be possible on a 737-800 as well as on an Airbus.
Not sure how they do that, looking back at my log book it’s about 6 hours each way to SID from MAN/BHX. So 12 hours of flying, plus 2 more of duty, and you’re at 14, which is the max with an extension.

Add in the low cost index, and no ACTs and there’s not a hope in hell they are going to make it there and back in one FDP. You need the low cost index because there are no ACTs.
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Old 14th Feb 2023, 17:24
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Originally Posted by Cazza_fly
CAA rules are often more stringent than EASA rules... infact many EASA documents were formed from CAA rules. However i digress...
Except, it would appear, the rules on Flight Time Limitations, as CAP371 allowed a longer duty day of just operating one sector, and alleviations (“Florida Variation”) or some such, to allow extended rostered duties with extra time off before and after. It would seem from the last couple of replies to my posts that these are no longer allowed under EASA, so lets hope it stays like that.

TUI are doing the return flights on the MAX from BRS, as I understand, so presumably that means slightly shorter flight times this fitting in with the current rules.
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Old 14th Feb 2023, 17:38
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Originally Posted by excrab
TUI are doing the return flights on the MAX from BRS, as I understand, so presumably that means slightly shorter flight times this fitting in with the current rules.
No they aren't. All SID/BVC on 738/MAX are crew change downroute. The 787 flights are (I believe) done there and back but with 3 FD crew.
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Old 14th Feb 2023, 18:17
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Originally Posted by Yeehaw22
No they aren't. All SID/BVC on 738/MAX are crew change downroute. The 787 flights are (I believe) done there and back but with 3 FD crew.
And the 787 cruises at .85 compared to .75 for a 321.
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Old 14th Feb 2023, 20:22
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My own problem now with Jet 2 is that it is no longer an airline, more a holiday company, but with an airline strapped on. The reverse of how it started. It is very hard to book a flight with descent flight times without taking up their hotel option.

Cheers
Mr Mac
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Old 14th Feb 2023, 21:01
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Originally Posted by Mr Mac
My own problem now with Jet 2 is that it is no longer an airline, more a holiday company, but with an airline strapped on. The reverse of how it started. It is very hard to book a flight with descent flight times without taking up their hotel option.

Cheers
Mr Mac
Very true, for an example MAN - ACE there was 5 out of 7 days you could not book flight only
this changed recently to 4 out of 7, I believe this is pushing people on to EZY and FR.
I understand they have hotels to sell, and it might work for them, BUT it could be a dangerous move to neglect their flight only customers many who fly multiple times year to and from their holiday homes.
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Old 14th Feb 2023, 21:01
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Originally Posted by Mr Mac
My own problem now with Jet 2 is that it is no longer an airline, more a holiday company, but with an airline strapped on. The reverse of how it started. It is very hard to book a flight with descent flight times without taking up their hotel option.

Cheers
Mr Mac
That only started recently. For Summer 22 and into this Summer. I agree it's annoying for seat only customers and is quite off putting.
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Old 14th Feb 2023, 21:17
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TUI do the same as Jet2
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Old 14th Feb 2023, 23:57
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Originally Posted by Mr Mac
My own problem now with Jet 2 is that it is no longer an airline, more a holiday company, but with an airline strapped on. The reverse of how it started. It is very hard to book a flight with descent flight times without taking up their hotel option.

Cheers
Mr Mac
“The reverse of how it started”

That’s exactly why J2 have survived…. Without the holiday company J2.com would have been dead years ago ! It’s unlikely they would have made a 7 year birthday, let alone the 20 year anniversary just gone !

The “holiday company” have been the driving force for years now…. It dictates where and when it wants the “airline” to go, and has clearly driven the business to where it is today.
It’s not rocket science…. a package holiday yields a lot more £££ per seat than flight only and as it now occupies the majority of seats on every flight​​​​, they have “first dibs” on the seat availability.

Yes, flight only is still hugely important. But there is much more competition in that sector and the yield is minimal.
The clientele are much more fickle too and quite frankly, “loyalty” means bollox.















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Old 15th Feb 2023, 11:20
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Big new training facility opened in Cheadle Heath for cockpit crewcabin crew, engineering staff and ground staff
Info care of The Business desk.
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Old 15th Feb 2023, 11:32
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Originally Posted by Mr Mac
It is very hard to book a flight with descent flight times without taking up their hotel option.
Is that right? I’ve never had a particular issue although admittedly I travel with them infrequently. It seems to me more a reflection of their destinations. Eg with the Canaries and Greek islands Ryanair, EZY often seem to have one of the inbound or outbound timed much earlier or later than I’d prefer.
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Old 15th Feb 2023, 11:41
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If you visit TUI's websites (not just UK but other European countries as well), you will see many flights available either only on package holidays (ie not available as flight only) or being quoted at vastly inflated flight-only prices. I can think of other package-holiday-centric airlines in Europe which do this as well. Jet2 are definitely not the only ones doing this.

If you want a particular flight, you may need to wait until a fortnight before travel date when a firm has a better idea of how many seats will not be sold for package holidays and starts releasing the remainder for flight-only sale at realistic prices

The relationship between airline and paying passenger is a business relationship... and the airline aims to maximise profit.

Last edited by davidjohnson6; 15th Feb 2023 at 11:52.
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