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Old 20th Dec 2020, 12:33
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I read on one news site that KLM would fly passengers into the UK, and return freight only. However, even if that is true, I can see much consolidation of flights. I am booked to fly AMS-MAN on Thursday after travelling overnight from Africa. Am trying to find out what will happen, but no word yet.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/1...avirus-strain/

A KLM spokeswoman told DutchNews.nl flights to the UK are going ahead as planned because they have not been banned, but aircraft will return to the Netherlands with freight but no passengers. However, passengers are advised to check their flight status.

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Old 20th Dec 2020, 12:47
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Interesting. However I note that one cannot book a ticket in either direction at the moment on the KLM app. easyJet appears to have cancelled all of their services.
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 14:11
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Man in the pub says Etihad are quote, seething.

Wanted a freight flight into Manchester this morning, were offered EMA as Manchester seemingly has no equipment, no staff, no logistics and presumably no ambition.

Were adamant that they were not being palmed off to East Midlands, so are now allegedly going to wait for it, Doncaster.

So Doncaster is now better equipped to handle this flight than the largest airport outside London. It takes a certain kind of magic to pee off one of your best customers?

I really hope the the new CEO Ms Karen Smart and the cargo team read these forums because this is getting absolutely farcical. Its not Karen's fault, I doubt she even gets to know but the mindset has to change.

We are now approaching double figures in terms of Manchester turning away singular cargo revenue and employment opportunities as well as what might have been a pipeline for the future.
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 14:23
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Man in the pub says Etihad....
Wow, you were lucky.
Nice try to relight the cargo debate. MAG has a policy -rightly or wrongly- you really need to get over it.
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 14:31
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Ah sorry i never realised that Doncaster was part of MAG.


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Old 21st Dec 2020, 15:03
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Surely an airport the size of Manchester could afford the necessary hi-lo equipment to access the aircraft's maindeck? I wonder how much the loss of fees by the airport must be and whether over a relatively short space of time these would have covered the cost of the equipment?

Okay, it's been another slow day, however things like this do infuriate me.

On that note I'll close by wishing you a happy Christmas - and may Santa bring Manchester the gift of proper freight handling equipped!!
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 16:04
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Originally Posted by Navpi
Wanted a freight flight into Manchester this morning, were offered EMA as Manchester seemingly has no equipment, no staff, no logistics and presumably no ambition.

Were adamant that they were not being palmed off to East Midlands, so are now allegedly going to wait for it, Doncaster
Originally Posted by Sioltach Dubh Glas
Surely an airport the size of Manchester could afford the necessary hi-lo equipment to access the aircraft's maindeck? I wonder how much the loss of fees by the airport must be and whether over a relatively short space of time these would have covered the cost of the equipment?
The airport does not provide the staff nor any required ground equipment to handle flights, be they passenger or freight. Thatís up to the nominated handling agents of each airline, or the airline themselves if they self-handle. They provide the staff, equipment and logistics. Only at the very smallest airports does the airport itís self provide ground handling staff and equipment.

Given whatís happening itís no surprise that handling agents have furloughed all but required staff, and not have people sitting around on the off chance there may be an ad-hoc freight movements some point. Maybe they were just lucky Doncaster had some spare capacity due being even quieter than Manchester, and only being able to cut staff numbers so far.
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 18:00
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Oh christ, not this again. Not sure whether I can take it. It comes only second to Covid for the feeling of Groundhog Day.

As others have said in the past. EMA is part of MAG and EMA is the part of the groups whoís core competency is cargo/freight.

Etihad being ďseethingĒ is an unlikely story. They were offered EMA, infinitely better connected (compared to DSA) but they chose to go to DSA which isnít as well connected by road as EMA and even further away from MAN which they reportedly first wanted. Doesnít make much sense to me.

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Old 21st Dec 2020, 18:08
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What's a pub? Not been to one of them in months!
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 18:53
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Given that Etihad have had regular freight flights on and off to East Midlands over the last couple of years, and therefore presumably have a contractual arrangement with a handler there, and have also done a number of ad hoc flights to Doncaster in the last few months, it doesn’t sound credible that they would suddenly throw a strop about not getting access to MAN this morning if those were the 2 alternatives.
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 21:12
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Oh christ, not this again. Not sure whether I can take it. It comes only second to Covid for the feeling of Groundhog Day.
When a known and persistently recurring issue within an organisation goes unaddressed time and again like a festering sore, it is inevitable that mention of it will be a regular occurrence. Perhaps MAG should consider putting right what so often goes wrong. Ineptitude in freight handling and dysfunctional escalators / travellators seem doomed to make regular appearances on here for many seasons yet.

It is disappointing, because MAN has many unsung departments which perform really well and rarely let the side down. Cargo is a very conspicuous exception - perhaps because it appears to be [mis]managed from a remote location within the group. Also allegedly letting the side down is the division responsible for hangar lettings - is that part of MAG Property's remit? Whoever it is, Grade Z- for them.

But set against this, the TP team did an outstanding job of the T2 expansion on a tight budget. The taxiway reorganisation has gone well. Julian Carr's section liaising with airlines for new business has done a great job. Security: instances of failures leading to long delays had come right down well before covid hit. Good progress there. Customer service in the terminals has made great positive strides. Kudos to the departments responsible for these areas.

But it is surely time for 'special measures' for the embarrassingly inept cargo division and those responsible for (allegedly) lamentable bungled hangar lettings. It is very specific areas which are letting down the wider reputation of the business ("the airport which likes to say NO!"). Too many on here rush to make excuses for these failings instead of considering how they could be remedied for the long-term benefit of the business. That is called complacency, and there is no place for it in a successful organisation. Invite those who have failed conspicuously to take a post better suited to their skill level and replace them with a competent fixer to sort things out in problem areas. Conversely, be sure to praise and reward those departments which have been a credit to the organisation and promote executives who have consistently done well. That is the essence of good management.

It is early days for Ms Smart at MAN. Let's hope she is up to delivering on this.
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 21:44
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May it be a case of no cargo stand available due to reduilding work, also has been stated many times MAG don`t own any equipent like this as it is the job of handing agent
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 21:47
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easyflyer83

In lockdown? Why not take up a hobby.

I suggest a musical instrument, the bassoon maybe.

You are it seems fully equipped, copius amounts of hot air !
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 21:47
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Cargo is a very conspicuous exception - perhaps because it appears to be [mis]managed from a remote location within the group.
But it is surely time for 'special measures' for the embarrassingly inept cargo division
Other than the moaning on this thread, any evidence to back those comments up? The group appear to run two of the countries most successful freight operations, which had daily widebody freighter movements prior to Covid-19 whereas MAN had none....

Is the airport/handlers meant to gear up with equipement/staffing for the hope of the odd charter?
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 22:05
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Why is it wrong to make constructive observations and criticism about certain aspects of the airport's operations? And I'm sure you noted the writer you quote also complemented several other facets of MAN's activities. It just seems rather odd that an airport the size of MAN, or its handling agents, apparently do not have hi-lo equipment on site to enable it to handle freighters when many other UK airports of varying size do.
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 22:18
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"But it is surely time for 'special measures' for the embarrassingly inept cargo division" isn't "constructive observations and criticism". The many other UK airports that have the kit need it for the regular widebody freighters they had pre-Covid. Is it so hard to see that MAG operates group policies and priorities?

Julian Carr's section liaising with airlines for new business has done a great job.
- not done so well at attracting pax to EMA. Maybe not a group priority
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 22:45
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Other than the moaning on this thread, any evidence to back those comments up?
This public forum is not the place for a forensic examination of specific failings, but those within the group have access to the data and timelines they need. Minimum standards are supposed to be in place for handling agencies: who is responsible for setting and arbitrating these standards? Why isn't there a Hi-Lo available on the airport? Someone needs to make darned sure there is. Take some responsibility.

The Hi-Lo issue appears to be kicked around as a classic 'chicken and egg' scenario with one side saying why have the equipment on site when so few freighters use them and the other side saying our freighters can't use the site because there is no equipment available. This is a vicious circle and it needs sorting out. A short glance at MAN's history shows that any notion that there is no demand for decent freight facilities here is abject nonsense. Not a case of 'bring it and they will come', rather 'bring it back cos it attracted loads of business in the past'. The need is proven.

MAN's whole-plane cargo capability is poor not based upon latent demand, but because the airport's proposition has seemingly been subjected to a managed decline by some within the group who didn't have Manchester Airport's best interests in mind. That is a lamentable situation and it needs to be rectified.

I suspect that based upon 2019 (pre-covid) stats, MAN is standalone as probably the busiest major airport in Europe which can't even rustle up a single Hi-Lo. That is absolutely shameful and a betrayal of MAG's responsibility to the NW's regional interests. If the situation isn't rectified, some might be minded to suggest that there is a growing case for a monopolies inquiry into how MAG as a group services the air cargo industry? Is business disproportionately carved up in the interests of MAG profits rather than due service to the customers? Is the NW region's inherent share of the cargo business routinely switch-sold away in the interests of other MAG airports elsewhere in the country? Some difficult questions need to be addressed, especially at this desperate time when every business opportunity is so crucial to employment prospects in the area.

Last edited by OzzyOzBorn; 21st Dec 2020 at 22:56.
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 22:52
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not done so well at attracting pax to EMA. Maybe not a group priority
It appears that you are perhaps better placed to argue on behalf of EMA than some other contributors on the MAN thread. If you believe that constructive criticism is due, why not set it forth? Problems won't be addressed if nobody seems bothered by them.
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Old 22nd Dec 2020, 07:02
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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100% correct Mr OzBorn

Government policy is supposedly about levelling up although that perhaps is a debate for another forum.

What is not in doubt is the fact that Man Airport is central to the economic prosperity of the North of England.

The inability to provide what is a basic service at most other airports is lamentable, not least given the airports status as the supposed gateway to the North.

What's the mantra again ?

"22m people located within 2 hours".

The cargo page on The Manchester Airport website trumpets "world class facilities", "global connectivity".
Options which apparently are only available if you happen to carry passengers !

The following airports are all pure cargo capable and routinely handle freight on a daily basis from all over the world.

Prestwick
Newcastle
Liverpool
Doncaster
East Midlands
Birmingham
Luton
Stansted
Heathrow
And would you believe even Bournemouth.

Yes even Bournemouth, its not even geographically the centre of Hampshire let alone the UK and yet like Doncaster from a standing start it can seemingly find it economical to provide direct pure freight service providing revenue opportunities and local employment.

If the accounts at MAG are so skewed that pure cargo is a loss making endeavour I would suggest there needs to be a level of retraining.

Are all these airports attracting pure cargo service in order to make a loss?

If the problem is with the handler i would suggest MAG contact one of the agencies at the list above. They appear to be making pure cargo a roaring success !

Last edited by Navpi; 22nd Dec 2020 at 07:27.
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Old 22nd Dec 2020, 07:44
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What has government policy got to do with it??

Newcastle only has a FedEx Atr on a daily basis - no other scheduled freighters and certainly has no widebody main deck capability.

Doncaster from a standing start? Apart from the regular 747F's with fresh produce that have been operating for years.

BOH are bulk loading on to the maindeck of passenger 340's - more to do with Mr Stoddart than any airport masterplan

Most of the others have had main deck freighter operators for years - Manchester hasn't as it has concentrated on belly freight because of the previous space constraints.
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