Manchester-3
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if it’s one extra 330 then ORD.
If it’s 2 then ORD + a west coast destination is my bet.
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Any west coast destination by Aer Lingus would require one of their HGW A333s with a crew rest installed, they’re currently kept busy on LAX and SFO with an A332 doing SEA. Not sure they’d be too eager to dedicate or acquire another one (not easily done) to attempt MAN-LAX right now.
Securing a pair of second hand A333s from QR or even IB seems more likely and would allow for the likes of ORD or another Caribbean destination quite easily. Only problem would be the cabin, the last ex-QR birds Aer Lingus received were well below standard and the process of refitting them has been slow to say the least.
Securing a pair of second hand A333s from QR or even IB seems more likely and would allow for the likes of ORD or another Caribbean destination quite easily. Only problem would be the cabin, the last ex-QR birds Aer Lingus received were well below standard and the process of refitting them has been slow to say the least.
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Any west coast destination by Aer Lingus would require one of their HGW A333s with a crew rest installed, they’re currently kept busy on LAX and SFO with an A332 doing SEA. Not sure they’d be too eager to dedicate or acquire another one (not easily done) to attempt MAN-LAX right now.
TCX used 332’s when they operated the route, and EI have used the 332 on DUB-SFO previously.
There’s 6 West Coast capable A330s in the EI fleet, 4 x HGW A333s (EI-GAJ, GCF, EIN & EIM) and 2 x A332s (EI-DAA & DUO). These are the only airframes with flight crew rest pod (which can be retrofitted to the A330) and underfloor cabin crew rest pod (which can only be installed at airframe manufacture). These 6 airframes currently operate LAX, SFO & SEA from DUB (the -300s are scheduled to operate LAX & SFO, with the -200s on SEA). The issue is because the total outbound, turnaround and return takes over 24 hours on some of these even without delays, it takes more than 3 airframes to serve these routes. They also need periodic grounding for TLC like any airframe and for efficiency reasons after they land from the West Coast they’ll often do a late ORD/BOS/JFK rotation from DUB.
For EI to operate MAN-LAX/SFO, they’ll need to source one or more additional GE A330s with the underfloor cc rest pod. HGW A330s in this combination are like hens teeth (I’d be surprised if IB were willing to let theirs go so soon). QR used their A330s on medium haul and none of the 3 sourced by EI so far have rest facilities/pods. EI have made no secret that they want to standardise the A330 fleet to -300s. Currently there’s 5 different A330 floor plans in the fleet which is an unnecessary complication when it comes to airframe scheduling or last minute airframe changes when flights are regularly sold out in summer.
MAN-BOS &/or ORD on 321s seems most likely in 2025 at least initially. The first XLR (EI-XLR) is due in Q3 this year and is due to take over DUB-MSP from an A330. The second XLR is due in Q4, with the remaining 4 due in Q1/Q2 2025. Thats a lot of potential for MAN.
For EI to operate MAN-LAX/SFO, they’ll need to source one or more additional GE A330s with the underfloor cc rest pod. HGW A330s in this combination are like hens teeth (I’d be surprised if IB were willing to let theirs go so soon). QR used their A330s on medium haul and none of the 3 sourced by EI so far have rest facilities/pods. EI have made no secret that they want to standardise the A330 fleet to -300s. Currently there’s 5 different A330 floor plans in the fleet which is an unnecessary complication when it comes to airframe scheduling or last minute airframe changes when flights are regularly sold out in summer.
MAN-BOS &/or ORD on 321s seems most likely in 2025 at least initially. The first XLR (EI-XLR) is due in Q3 this year and is due to take over DUB-MSP from an A330. The second XLR is due in Q4, with the remaining 4 due in Q1/Q2 2025. Thats a lot of potential for MAN.
Last edited by Una Due Tfc; 16th Jan 2024 at 20:52.
Cargo remains a topical and relevant conversation on here. Since reports emerged last year alleging that MAG had received a knuckle-rap over it's cargo policy at MAN, the airport has still handled NO whole-plane freight flights using a widebodied type, aside from aircraft visiting STS for maintenance work. Nor are there any reports of management moving to restore handling capability for these in conjunction with handling agencies.
Perhaps your best course would be to skip over posts which don't interest you? There may even be a function to put posters you dislike on "ignore".
Perhaps your best course would be to skip over posts which don't interest you? There may even be a function to put posters you dislike on "ignore".
Secondly. Apologies to everybody for poking the cargo beast again. I shouldnt have mentioned it. 😁
Last edited by TURIN; 17th Jan 2024 at 01:00.
Cargo remains a topical and relevant conversation on here. Since reports emerged last year alleging that MAG had received a knuckle-rap over it's cargo policy at MAN, the airport has still handled NO whole-plane freight flights using a widebodied type, aside from aircraft visiting STS for maintenance work. Nor are there any reports of management moving to restore handling capability for these in conjunction with handling agencies.
Perhaps your best course would be to skip over posts which don't interest you? There may even be a function to put posters you dislike on "ignore".
Perhaps your best course would be to skip over posts which don't interest you? There may even be a function to put posters you dislike on "ignore".
BHX has never been known as particularly pro cargo, but the airport does have a small independent cargo handling agent and the airport does now receive quite regular visits by 747 freighters.
Perhaps the answer for MAN is to find a Blue City style entrepreneur business dedicated to cargo handling?
Last edited by ATNotts; 16th Jan 2024 at 21:37.
TURIN - Well you may find my postings 'very lengthy and tedious', but it seems that you read them all anyway. And whether you like them or not, they're always topical to the subject of Manchester Airport, which is what this thread is all about.
Cargo is an intrinsic part of the operation of a major international airport. If MAN is unable to perform to its full potential in that sector, the issue is fair game for discussion. Topics are not posted on the basis of whether 'TURIN' will like this or not. You are, however, at liberty to skip postings which don't interest you.
Meanwhile, I'd rather be 'tedious' than gratuitously unpleasant towards other contributors who post in good faith.
Cargo is an intrinsic part of the operation of a major international airport. If MAN is unable to perform to its full potential in that sector, the issue is fair game for discussion. Topics are not posted on the basis of whether 'TURIN' will like this or not. You are, however, at liberty to skip postings which don't interest you.
Meanwhile, I'd rather be 'tedious' than gratuitously unpleasant towards other contributors who post in good faith.
I'll keep it brief. Is it MAN that doesn't want wide body freighters, or the handling agents that won't or can't handle them? Or is it that MAN won't offer the kinds of charges that competitor airports are willing to?
BHX has never been known as particularly pro cargo, but the airport does have a small independent cargo handling agent and the airport does now receive quite regular visits by 747 freighters.
Perhaps the answer for MAN is to find a Blue City style entrepreneur business dedicated to cargo handling?
BHX has never been known as particularly pro cargo, but the airport does have a small independent cargo handling agent and the airport does now receive quite regular visits by 747 freighters.
Perhaps the answer for MAN is to find a Blue City style entrepreneur business dedicated to cargo handling?
if so, that's less than passengers who can contribute revenue through retail and car parking too.
If it's a choice between those 2 types of business at a slot constrained airport, you'd have thought passengers would win through in terms of business to chase.
Manchester is also now having to deal with overnight slot restrictions, which doesn’t lend itself to some areas of cargo operations.
If it's a choice between those 2 types of business at a slot constrained airport, you'd have thought passengers would win through in terms of business to chase.
What direct revenue does a freighter bring in to an airport operator? Anything other than landing fees?
Finally, one must also keep in mind that artificially redirecting cargo away from MAN costs valuable local employment opportunities. Businesses in the NW also receive a lesser service than could reasonably be provided for them.
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What direct revenue does a freighter bring in to an airport operator? Anything other than landing fees?
TURIN - Well you may find my postings 'very lengthy and tedious', but it seems that you read them all anyway. And whether you like them or not, they're always topical to the subject of Manchester Airport, which is what this thread is all about.
Cargo is an intrinsic part of the operation of a major international airport. If MAN is unable to perform to its full potential in that sector, the issue is fair game for discussion. Topics are not posted on the basis of whether 'TURIN' will like this or not. You are, however, at liberty to skip postings which don't interest you.
Meanwhile, I'd rather be 'tedious' than gratuitously unpleasant towards other contributors who post in good faith.
Cargo is an intrinsic part of the operation of a major international airport. If MAN is unable to perform to its full potential in that sector, the issue is fair game for discussion. Topics are not posted on the basis of whether 'TURIN' will like this or not. You are, however, at liberty to skip postings which don't interest you.
Meanwhile, I'd rather be 'tedious' than gratuitously unpleasant towards other contributors who post in good faith.
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What direct revenue does a freighter bring in to an airport operator? Anything other than landing fees?
if so, that's less than passengers who can contribute revenue through retail and car parking too.
If it's a choice between those 2 types of business at a slot constrained airport, you'd have thought passengers would win through in terms of business to chase.
Manchester is also now having to deal with overnight slot restrictions, which doesn’t lend itself to some areas of cargo operations.
if so, that's less than passengers who can contribute revenue through retail and car parking too.
If it's a choice between those 2 types of business at a slot constrained airport, you'd have thought passengers would win through in terms of business to chase.
Manchester is also now having to deal with overnight slot restrictions, which doesn’t lend itself to some areas of cargo operations.
ATNotts , 16th Jan 2024 22:10
I'll keep it brief. Is it MAN that doesn't want wide body freighters, or the handling agents that won't or can't handle them? Or is it that MAN won't offer the kinds of charges that competitor airports are willing to?
Yes. and some.
I'll keep it brief. Is it MAN that doesn't want wide body freighters, or the handling agents that won't or can't handle them? Or is it that MAN won't offer the kinds of charges that competitor airports are willing to?
Yes. and some.
Or is there no demand for widebody freighters into MAN? or should I say insufficient to justify the investment in kit/training etc?
My gut tells me that the handling agents feel they make their money from passengers and a speculative investment in equipment for wide body freighters may not fit their business plan.
An independent specialist cargo handler may be the solution, whether someone would be prepared to risk their money when apparently MAG aren't on side must be debateable.
The landscape changed when airports began being run by bean counters who's first loyalty are to shareholders and investors, with the regional economic benefit very much a secondary consideration.
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Given the region that MAN serves I would say that is highly unlikely.
My gut tells me that the handling agents feel they make their money from passengers and a speculative investment in equipment for wide body freighters may not fit their business plan.
An independent specialist cargo handler may be the solution, whether someone would be prepared to risk their money when apparently MAG aren't on side must be debateable.
The landscape changed when airports began being run by bean counters who's first loyalty are to shareholders and investors, with the regional economic benefit very much a secondary consideration.
My gut tells me that the handling agents feel they make their money from passengers and a speculative investment in equipment for wide body freighters may not fit their business plan.
An independent specialist cargo handler may be the solution, whether someone would be prepared to risk their money when apparently MAG aren't on side must be debateable.
The landscape changed when airports began being run by bean counters who's first loyalty are to shareholders and investors, with the regional economic benefit very much a secondary consideration.
Strategic decison by MAG, ATN. Shifted all freight enquiries to EMA.