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Old 26th Jul 2023, 20:07
  #2961 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AircraftOperations
Question: How.much is a transit flight worth to an airport if it has no access to 5th freedoms? Minimal commercial revenue surely. Keeping airline relationships smooth?
Arguably so. But the real prize at MAN is through flights which DO have fifth freedom rights. With MAN having no based hub carrier - and especially since the demise of Thomas Cook long-haul - opportunities are there for them.
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Old 26th Jul 2023, 21:02
  #2962 (permalink)  
 
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There are potential opportunities at many airports, and so to confine this to MAN is pure hubris. I am sure BHX or GLA would welcome Emirates flying DXB-XXX-NYC just as Hamburg, Milan and Athens have over the years. EDI would be cock-a-hoop with Turkish doing IST-EDI-YYZ, and MAN with Ethiopian doing ADD-MAN-DTW, or whatever examples you wish to choose. UK Government policy recognises this market opportunity which is why outside London, the UK's Air Services Agreements with other countries are to all intents and purposes "Open Skies" and have been for many years.

The security requirements apply equally to all UK airports. So if BA wished to run a single flight KWI-LHR-JFK (as it used to do) then the security re-screening requirement would apply at LHR just as it would to Kuwait Airways flying the same routing or KU flying that routing via Manchester.

Ozzy, this is not going to change any time soon. There are threat-based reasons for the UK's stance. I repeat, it is not going to change any time soon - until or unless the threat-based reasons change or suitable measures can be introduced to mitigate those threats.

I'd suggest that we move on.



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Old 26th Jul 2023, 22:03
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There are potential opportunities at many airports, and so to confine this to MAN is pure hubris.
Additional fifth-freedom services could be very beneficial at airports such as MAN and BHX.
Please note the above quote lifted from my post 2940. My answers have consistently referred to the UK. MAN crops up regularly in replies because we are on the MANCHESTER thread!!! Where is the "pure hubris"? I deliberately didn't reference airports in Scotland, because I'm unsure whether they have their own arrangements in place being self-governing up there. But I agree that fifth freedoms are important to them for the same reasons as they are at MAN. In fact, I twice flew EDI-DUB with Hainan Airlines pre-covid.

​​​​​​​ Ozzy, this is not going to change any time soon. There are threat-based reasons for the UK's stance. I repeat, it is not going to change any time soon - until or unless the threat-based reasons change or suitable measures can be introduced to mitigate those threats.
The question then becomes whether there is a need for airports on the continent to align with the UK's way of doing things. If the threat represented by not re-scanning passengers who have already flown their first sector is genuine, then the issue must be a concern at airports such as GVA too. If there are measures which can be introduced to mitigate those threats, they should be examined as a matter of priority and implemented as soon as is practical. The UK is forfeiting valuable business, and it is mainly hitting regional airports serving areas which could benefit disproportionately from such air links.

​​​​​​​ I'd suggest that we move on.
I agree that we've covered most of the ground on this. I'll respond to any follow-up points raised by other contributors or yourself, but will move on in the absence of these.
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 07:22
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Originally Posted by ezyBoh
Yes, same happened with me, seemed to be a standard procedure.

Happened in MUC, ZRH, FRA whilst transferring to LHR.
Ozzy isnt talking about transfers enroute- he is talking about SAME PLANE transits
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 12:49
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Originally Posted by Rutan16
Ozzy isnt talking about transfers enroute- he is talking about SAME PLANE transits
Surely it's still the same principle, transit passengers have already been screened at their origin. Unless going landside I don't see why the risk is any different for those transferring between aircraft and those staying in their seats. Another issue is that any liquids bought airside at the origin are then confiscated upon transfer.
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 14:26
  #2966 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by scrapy
Surely it's still the same principle, transit passengers have already been screened at their origin. Unless going landside I don't see why the risk is any different for those transferring between aircraft and those staying in their seats. Another issue is that any liquids bought airside at the origin are then confiscated upon transfer.
Transfer is surely more "risky" as you are potentially bringing together passengers from a wide variety of different origins which might have varying levels of security.
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 16:29
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I am amazed that Jet2 has not taken over routes formerly operated by Thomas Cook Airlines. Traffic to the Dom Rep, Cuba, Jamaica, Mexico and West Coast USA must be ripe for the picking.
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 19:49
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Originally Posted by Mayfield62
I am amazed that Jet2 has not taken over routes formerly operated by Thomas Cook Airlines. Traffic to the Dom Rep, Cuba, Jamaica, Mexico and West Coast USA must be ripe for the picking.
But perhaps not so ripe if TCX Airlines couldn't be spun off, despite apparent subgroup profits. Long haul leisure is always a bit iffy. I can’t see Jet2 entertaining West Coast USA. Big resort package destinations if they want to risk it…
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 19:57
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wonder what TCX would have done about fleet renewal, as those ex Airtours A330’s were knackered. Maybe followed Condor with A330-900 neos? or some white tail 787s. The rest of the SH fleet needed replaced too.
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 20:07
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Jet 2 are a very cautious Yorkshire company, and probably know their market very well, and that market as yet is not long haul travel , to more exotic locations, which is probably how many of their customers would view the locations you mentioned currently.

That is not to say that they will not change, but I think they need more time developing their brand yet.

None of the above is hopefully viewed as patronising, but an honest attempt to look at their current market and where they MAYBE want to go.

Cheers
Mr Mac

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Old 27th Jul 2023, 20:22
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Not patronising at all. It just seems to be a logical step now that they are the UK's biggest tour operator.
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Old 28th Jul 2023, 07:51
  #2972 (permalink)  
 
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Yeah - and Europe's biggest airline resolutely refuses to do long haul - there's a good reason to stick to what you do best
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Old 28th Jul 2023, 11:15
  #2973 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mayfield62
I am amazed that Jet2 has not taken over routes formerly operated by Thomas Cook Airlines. Traffic to the Dom Rep, Cuba, Jamaica, Mexico and West Coast USA must be ripe for the picking.
The traffic to the US this year has been very hit and miss hasn't it? Probably the wrong time to enter the market for sure. Cost of living crisis etc - people just going short haul as it's cheaper?
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Old 28th Jul 2023, 11:49
  #2974 (permalink)  
 
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Mayfield62 Have you been to US recently, no longer a cheap place? Money to be made inbound to UK from US but not the other way - unless Jet2 are going to advertise in US for holidays in UK!
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Old 28th Jul 2023, 11:56
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What is suitable bed stock like in these destinations at the moment? If Jet2 can't get that, they won't consider a route.

Big difference to Jet2 between a few packages to New York leading up to Christmas operated on a narrowbody and a longer series of regular 7/10/14 days holidays to 8+ hour away destinations only reachable by a non-company widebody.
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Old 28th Jul 2023, 12:03
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If Jet2 got involved in longhaul then surely Cancun is the starting point for a couple of flights a week. There are plenty of hotels but only 2 carriers (BA and TUI) covering from the UK and only TUI from Manchester. Pipe dream I know but it would be good for the TUI monopoly to be broken.
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Old 28th Jul 2023, 13:54
  #2977 (permalink)  
 
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Saw it reported elsewhere that EI's LF for the MAN base was 64% for May. Hopefully that has picked up since.
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Old 28th Jul 2023, 14:28
  #2978 (permalink)  
 
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Very healthy loads now i believe.
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Old 28th Jul 2023, 16:08
  #2979 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by pabely
Mayfield62 Have you been to US recently, no longer a cheap place? Money to be made inbound to UK from US but not the other way - unless Jet2 are going to advertise in US for holidays in UK!
As someone who has previously regularly holidayed to various parts of the US, this is certainly a major issue for me. We cancelled a trip to the South/Midwest in the spring due to cost of hotels and rental cars - exacerbated at the time by the exchange rate.

I've looked at Las Vegas a few times since the pandemic, and it seems that the days of a relatively cheap luxury stay there are a thing of the past.

As someone said above - if Jet2 decided to dip a toe in the longhaul market, Cancun would certainly appear to be a more obvious option.
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Old 28th Jul 2023, 18:10
  #2980 (permalink)  
 
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They probably will have their spies out looking at how well Virgin Holidays do next year from Manchester. Long Hual.
If things look better then they could always change some of those 321s to 321LR, although 10-11 hours in one of those might not be nice. Ok if you are running a ULCC model you put up with it but that is not the Jet2 Holidays model. 330NEO would be better but with a standby aircraft, as Jet2 would want, that's a big gamble.
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