Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Flybe-9

Old 18th Nov 2018, 20:56
  #941 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: On the road
Posts: 707
Originally Posted by Rutan16 View Post

Still carrying 60 with significant numbers being codeshare passengers at pence in the pound will never pay the bills period ; That’s exactly the formula that did in bmi !

It all depends on how the codeshare deal is structured. Only inexperienced or inept deals are based on mileage. Any interline manager worth their salt will structure a deal based on guaranteed minimums
by class meaning that far from pennies, codeshare pax can actually be worth significant revenues often better than the point to point pax! You just need to have people who know what their doing.
TartinTon is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 06:32
  #942 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Eas Anglia
Age: 60
Posts: 464
I cannot see how the LHR routes make money.

A320 every hour wuth semi seamless connections or the flybe option in a Dash !

vanity ?
or nice juicy sale when time permits .
Navpi is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 07:01
  #943 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,609
Originally Posted by Navpi View Post
Ior nice juicy sale when time permits .
Suggest you read posts 941 or 943 just above...
Cyrano is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 11:12
  #944 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 633
Rutan16, thanks for the comprehensive response and factual rebuttal. Although they may be BA’s, BA cannot use them. When you say ‘lease’ who gets paid what?
shamrock7seal is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 12:01
  #945 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: leeds
Age: 72
Posts: 242
Am I dreaming or did Flybe pay £15 million for some LGW slots not that long ago? If so, presumably they are freehold, unrestricted and theirs to sell? So that's around half the sale price of the company?
anothertyke is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 12:23
  #946 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 712
Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
LGW and LCY have to stand on their own two feet as there's almost zero feed to long haul outwith the first wave LGW southbounds.
JER, GLA and EDI all feed the Longhaul from Gatwick, a small amount will connect from Europe too.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 12:53
  #947 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Are you suggesting that BA's UK domestics are profitable ?
I think that the fact that they have just expanded INV to 3 a day including a nightstopper points to a reasonably attractive business (helped by lack of APD of course).

Not sure how they all stack up on an O&D basis but all the domestics produce a huge amount of feed for BA into LHR (LBA probably being the best example of this).
tigertanaka is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 13:42
  #948 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: EGNX
Posts: 1,158
Originally Posted by 01475 View Post
The figures in the graph are utterly useless (also ignoring franchises, along with the other faults).

Flybe's accounts tell me that their underlying business might not be entirely sound, but is recoverable and certainly isn't awful. (
That is exactly what the account accompanying the graphic says, so how can the figures be "utterly useless" ???
Doors to Automatic is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 14:22
  #949 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: S.E.Asia
Posts: 1,780
Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1 View Post


Not necessarily. More efficient flying 60 people to Edinburgh in a Dash than to Manchester in an Airbus. Not saying it’s making money, but it’s not necessarily losing too much.

Could BE sub-let the slots to someone else? Or even if it came to it launch a route to Guangzhou (operated by China Southern)?

Now you are getting in to dreamland. No UK regional operator could ever fly to Guangzhou.If anyone could challenge China Southern it would be Air Asia. Trust me I live here.China Southern already operate two flights a day from Heathrow but Guangzhou is an awful airport compared to neighbouring Hong Kong.



Mike Flynn is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 14:44
  #950 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London
Age: 38
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
JER, GLA and EDI all feed the Longhaul from Gatwick, a small amount will connect from Europe too.
I think I said that? Difference being that LHR has feed all day whereas only the first onbound to Gatwick and the second outbound is decent for the vast majority of connections to the Beach Fleet leaving the remaining rotations dependent on fighting EZY for point to point.
A320 every hour wuth semi seamless connections or the flybe option in a Dash !
I love it when Navpi sings the benefits of SEAMLESS (they're often not)!) connections via LHR, what a great point well made! I knew you'd see sense one day.
One of the challenges must be that flybe are competing with their borderline LHR operations with a large operation out of LCY. Now BA can do this better, in the way LHR-GLA was downsized and LCY-GLA up-sized with a move away from connections to support strong point to point London traffic but I don't see flybe having the benefits of scale to do this.
Skipness One Foxtrot is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 16:41
  #951 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: London
Posts: 205
Originally Posted by anothertyke View Post
Am I dreaming or did Flybe pay £15 million for some LGW slots not that long ago? If so, presumably they are freehold, unrestricted and theirs to sell? So that's around half the sale price of the company?
The only slots Flybe have at LGW are for the NQY route. The rest were sold off for £25 million. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...t-for-20m.html
BA318 is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 17:04
  #952 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 6,245
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Are you suggesting that BA's UK domestics are profitable ?
If they weren't profitable they wouldn't do them. I think you know this

How the figures are represented is, of course, quite different. I can present you with figures which, on a straightforward accounting basis, show the BA Domestics as profitable. I can also present you with figures done on an equally straightforward basis which show they have lost considerable money for each of the last 45 years. What do you want me to show ? Despite all this, BA choose to let them absorb a substantial number of Heathrow slots which have great value.

I did once, in consecutive weeks, pay more on a BA Monday morning trip to Aberdeen than on a trip to Miami. Both in Y. The Aberdeen flight was fuller ...

A network carrier means what it says, it is the overall network which is the asset value; trying to salami slice it down and look at individual bits is, to an extent, a disconnected beancounting pastime.

A considerable part of how BMI lost so much is they were constrained by Star Alliance connecting passenger revenue splitting. It worked OK where you had the long haul, but BMI, uniquely short haul only in the alliance, were short changed by all the long haul carriers into Heathrow. That was a real loss.
WHBM is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 17:18
  #953 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: leeds
Age: 72
Posts: 242
Originally Posted by BA318 View Post
The only slots Flybe have at LGW are for the NQY route. The rest were sold off for £25 million. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...t-for-20m.html
Thanks. Must visit my senior moment consultant.
anothertyke is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 17:30
  #954 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: East London
Age: 37
Posts: 992
Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post

Now you are getting in to dreamland. No UK regional operator could ever fly to Guangzhou.If anyone could challenge China Southern it would be Air Asia. Trust me I live here.China Southern already operate two flights a day from Heathrow but Guangzhou is an awful airport compared to neighbouring Hong Kong.
Iím sure the Dash could make it.

Read between the lines. Perhaps you didnít on purpose.
AirportPlanner1 is online now  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 18:43
  #955 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: BHX
Posts: 276
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon...-flybe-2236883

Could be great news if they get a wealthy owner prepared to invest in the airline
Brigantee is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 18:53
  #956 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 514
Originally Posted by Brigantee View Post
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon...-flybe-2236883

Could be great news if they get a wealthy owner prepared to invest in the airline
This article has been re-hashed from the FT and placed in BE's local rag. Wouldn't read to much in to this and would assume the local press are pro-actively pushing for BE's existence (and quite rightly). EZY would be a wise choice however for any takeover!
stewyb is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 19:14
  #957 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Exmouth
Posts: 55
Why on earth would easy jet want to get involved with a basket case regional airline ?
Doc Q is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 19:26
  #958 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 10,819
Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
If they weren't profitable they wouldn't do them. I think you know this
Actually, I don't. That's why I asked.

I've spent the last 50 years watching with interest while BEA/BA gradually extricated themselves from a large network of increasingly unviable UK domestic routes.

I'm prepare to accept that, on any sensible accounting basis, the presence of those remaining routes adds move value to the overall BA operation than their absence would. But that's not the same thing at all as saying that there are profitable in their own right.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 21:39
  #959 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 389
Originally Posted by Doc Q View Post
Why on earth would easy jet want to get involved with a basket case regional airline ?
Eliminating competition.
SealinkBF is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 21:53
  #960 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,609
Originally Posted by SealinkBF View Post
Eliminating competition.
Even if the competition seems to be well on the way to eliminating itself...?
Cyrano is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.