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Flybe-9

Old 8th Jun 2020, 08:55
  #4141 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing will happen. it is gone. flybe were in desperate need of restructuring but no-one there seemed to know how to do it. now the other regionals and (easyJet) are doing that restructuring by taking and developing the routes themselves. I think someone said it previously here but flybe were not as vital as they led themselves believe and now that delusion has cost them dear.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 13:44
  #4142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Sadly I have to agree with Cabsav, and I used to work for them. Covid19 aside there was never going to be any serious bids to buy the whole thing otherwise it would have happened in early 2019, if not before. All that was going to happen was some “chancer” was going to come along and cherry pick the best bits, if there ever were any. Why? Because Flybe had too much baggage and the only way to get a good regional airline doing what it did best, ie, competent people taking people from A to B safely and efficiently, was to let it die and start again. Anybody with an ounce of sense could see that but everyone buried their heads in the sand and thought it was too special to let go under.

When JF, AS and JR got into bed with BA and took on BA connect, the writing was on the wall. They thought they’d made the big time and from then on acted as such. They haemorrhaged cash and very soon couldn’t see a way out of it. The rest is history.

It’s a crying shame, but as in all these cases, the people that do all the hard work get “shafted” and the incompetent managers move sideways into another high paying job. There is a need for something like Flybe and I certainly don’t think Eastern or Loganair can fill the void. But someone will. Let’s just hope that whoever does focuses on providing the service people want and not trying to be something that regional airlines can never be.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 14:46
  #4143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Aalborg
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I agree that the old Flybe is dead, it had serious underlying health issues and Covid19 finished it off.
Irrespective of the former leadership's issues I thought the new lot were doing a good job and had the right idea, when they got the keys to the castle and found the previous lot had already spent 80million of their investment there must have been some head in hands.
I don't think the full impact of Flybe's demise can be judged at the moment given there's nobody currently flying in lockdown and no demand.
When things do fire up (hopefully soon) who's going the fill the void? Easy Jet aren't going to fill a 200 seat jet on most routes and can Logan Air and Eastern really upscale
to fill the void of a 800million business with 8million passengers..... unlikely. RyanAir just moan about government bail outs but don't do any internal UK flights...

My prediction...... Some sort of Restart with the owned 20ish Dash only, bases at BHD, BHX, MAN, Poss SOU (although an expensive airport to operate from) and W pattern into EXT, NQY and LCY. No Scottish bases but some Scottish routes or possibly a joint base for EDI/GLA. Will be a nominal EXT HQ or move to BHX due to the number of local Q400 engineers, hangar plus simple geography and route structure. Will fly around the UK, Channel Islands, AMS, Poss CGD, Ireland and regional France summer only.....

Problem is there's not many investors around with spare cash at the moment to fund it........




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Old 9th Jun 2020, 16:37
  #4144 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, agreed. Finding investment will be very tricky.
Although, easyjet have increased the Flybe Belfast route which was very busy. From Birmingham, Bristol, Glasgow and Manchester - all routes which had been served by Flybe. eastern are Now starting the Southampton to the northern and Scotland Airports. This reflects their old business model of the late noughties. And the channel island Operators are picking up jersey etc. That’s why I feel it would be hard for a start up to Commercially get somewhere with routes. And of course EY are looking to get as much capital out of the assets as possible. If it is, as they quoted £88m cash for the aircraft or (arguments sake) £60m for someone to operate them as an airline, they wont show much emotion in going for the former.
What a mess.

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Old 9th Jun 2020, 17:44
  #4145 (permalink)  
 
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Jamie2009 - it was an 800 million business that lost vast amounts of money. There is no point in trying to reinvent it.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 18:21
  #4146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by willy wombat View Post
Jamie2009 - it was an 800 million business that lost vast amounts of money. There is no point in trying to reinvent it.
I know it lost money but my point is that Loss was due to extortionate legacy costs associated with the fleet and infrastructure. There was 800mil of business to be had and 8mil of passengers to fly I think that’s quite a bit for a regional carrier.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 20:36
  #4147 (permalink)  
 
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everyone is right here. FY 19 at £913m revenue and no profit!!!!!! That was such an opportunity. But much more than legacy. We can list the misadventures. Why did it not get a grip years ago and make the tough decisions needed. I think we know why. One of my main gripes is that senior management got paid hundreds of thousands to turn the business around and failed. It’s a bit rich that some are on LinkedIn trying to be the ex employees friends. They let those employees down. If anyone is being paid in the hundreds of thousands to make a business work and you benefit from that lucky situation, rightly take the blame when you failed to succeed.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 21:52
  #4148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
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TBH I believe the core issue was BE wanted to be everything to everybody rather than have a core pax profile and going for that business. If they had been more focused on core profiles they probably would have had a reasonable chance of survival. Having worked with them for years they just seemed they wanted to be a low cost full fare scheduled charter business class economy regional international feeder airline all rolled into one!!!
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 09:10
  #4149 (permalink)  
 
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Alteagod.

Ha. Yes that pretty much sums up their business model.
And the hopeless management couldn't see what everyone else could. And as said before, I cannot see any of them at all the different levels apologise or take accountability. Sorry, my mistake, the strategy was working. Better paint another aircraft in lilac to celebrate.

Last edited by cabsav; 10th Jun 2020 at 09:11. Reason: grammar
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 19:50
  #4150 (permalink)  
 
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Website

What would one make of this? https://checkin.si.amadeus.net/stati...identification

Surely the website should be de-activated by now, and the Virgin Connect brand was never used...
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 20:05
  #4151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Belfast
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Showed them the door before they got a chance to log off ?
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 20:26
  #4152 (permalink)  
 
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Or it could be on the cards. Just thinking out loud given commonality with interested parties in VS and VA.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 20:45
  #4153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Northern Ireland
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It has been quiet from the administrators, I have noticed Company name on booking website Virgin Connect Ltd company number 02769768, (same company number as Flybe Ltd)
also that Stobart Air is looking for a financial partner
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 17:23
  #4154 (permalink)  
 
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Doesn't seem to be any news on the sale of Flybe Aviation Services yet even though it was meant to happen at the end of May? Whilst I agree Flybe on the whole is gone, I still think there is room for someone to take on some or most of the assets and continue it's legacy. It's very sad that in the last 10 years we've now seen two South West based airlines fail, losing vital jobs and skills within the region.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 17:37
  #4155 (permalink)  
 
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Does the UK need another regional airline, or would it be better for Aurigny / Blue Islands / Eastern / Loganair to pick up the additional routes that can't support a 737/A319, once lockdown is properly gone ?
Maybe not great for competition, but better perhaps to have stability in the market
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 18:48
  #4156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6 View Post
Does the UK need another regional airline, or would it be better for Aurigny / Blue Islands / Eastern / Loganair to pick up the additional routes that can't support a 737/A319, once lockdown is properly gone ?
Maybe not great for competition, but better perhaps to have stability in the market
So what's left? Which BE routes haven't been picked up yet - is BHX the biggest loser?
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 19:05
  #4157 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
So what's left? Which BE routes haven't been picked up yet - is BHX the biggest loser?
With regards to SOU, core routes still to fill are really only AMS & CDG!
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 19:38
  #4158 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SKOJB View Post
With regards to SOU, core routes still to fill are really only AMS & CDG!
Have many (any?) of BE's European routed been picked up?
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 19:55
  #4159 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Have many (any?) of BE's European routed been picked up?
Don't believe so and seems Loganair and Eastern are only concentrating on BE’s former U.K. network
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 20:11
  #4160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
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MAN, BHX and BHD bases. W pattern into the others.

For Easy Jet.....BFS isn't convenient like BHD and the A320 is too big to make money when they're putting on 3/4/5 flights a day (as per their website) to BHX/MAN/GLA and EDI. If it would make money O'Leary would be doing it.
That amount of flights will be cut in short order as they will be half empty, they are just trying to put the kibosh on a restart. Given the cash they're currently burning at the moment they probably don't have the stomach to fly these routes/frequency for long - I'd do a limited service to BHD, GLA and EDI from BHX/MAN. Also Easy Jet do hardly any regional UK flights from MAN/BHX.

Is the British Government really going to rely on Blue Islands and Aurigny for Regional Connectivity on the South Coast?
Eastern Airways - Really.... might do a bit but think they're bit niche. They can have Middlesborough, Norwich and most of Leeds domestic traffic. I'd let they crack on and pay SOUs extortionate fees too.

BA - just do LHR and back

Logan Air - Main players! especially when they have the ATR fleet BUT they can't upscale quickly - it will take time to get the ATR! How will their finances be coming out of this mess and does the current 49 seat Jet and 34 seat Saab really provide the capacity to step up?
Politically - will Boris and the Westminster lot really want Tartan liveried planes connecting England to the regions and have to listen to Sturgeon banging on about it.

How-about a restart and codeshare between Logan and Flybe with a virtual Hadrians wall
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