Flybe-9
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I fear some posters here may at best be mistaken and at worst be trying to cause mischief.
There has been talk of £500m. But this is a £500m package of measures that Boris Johnson will announce to boost regional connectivity in and around the UK. Not a £500m investment or loan to Flybe. More a £500m economic insurance package to guard against the negative effects of Flybe failing.
I have said enough for now.
There has been talk of £500m. But this is a £500m package of measures that Boris Johnson will announce to boost regional connectivity in and around the UK. Not a £500m investment or loan to Flybe. More a £500m economic insurance package to guard against the negative effects of Flybe failing.
I have said enough for now.
jenny tails, in post 3105 you stated without an official announcement you wouldn't want to post anything here.
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Sorry, it makes no sense at all.
Another airline can easily replace all the routes and service that Flybe provides. (although without the crippling debt and inept management)
I've yet to see a single effort to turnaround BE in the past few years besides ploughing millions of pounds into repainting planes purple and endeavoring to change the name.. I don't see what £500m of taxpayer funds will achieve besides a temporary extension before the tin pot comes banging back again; to quote Oliver Twist, "please sir, can I have some more?"
Another airline can easily replace all the routes and service that Flybe provides. (although without the crippling debt and inept management)
I've yet to see a single effort to turnaround BE in the past few years besides ploughing millions of pounds into repainting planes purple and endeavoring to change the name.. I don't see what £500m of taxpayer funds will achieve besides a temporary extension before the tin pot comes banging back again; to quote Oliver Twist, "please sir, can I have some more?"
Loganair are still digesting BMI Regional (this is the Stobart / flybe likely end game) so they’re maxed out.
Eastern not likely, ambition no longer there.
easyJet or Ryanair will cherry pick for volume and frequency needed by business can swivel. Ask IOM
Blue Islands? Nope
Aurigny? Bigger nope.
er.....
That’s it. All the lil guys are gone, a changing market and the killer of APD saw to that.
Many of the routes and frequencies will go unserved, unless Stobart really do step in and do a Loganair/BMI Regional.....
Surely, quite apart from the state aid legality, a fundamental problem is a clear non-alignment of the respective government & shareholder aims?
The government apparently wants regional connectivity, yet the owners have no particular altruism re such a focus and presumably will be quite happy to dump such minor regional routes routes for LHR slots or feed, or to apply potential government funds (rather than raising their own risk capital) to international (suicidal) start ups, such as those allegedly being considered from LHR & LCY.
If the government wishes to assist the public and the regional airports, it should find a direct mechanism to do so, perhaps by simply tendering PSOs on the critical domestic routes (which would flush out any healthier alternative contenders).
The suggestion of a loan (presumably unsecured by VS/DL?) in lieu of owner's money is simply a "heads we win, tails they lose" for VS/DL, which leaves the latter with either a successfully revived Flybe or a deferred collapse, both at no cost to themselves.
The government apparently wants regional connectivity, yet the owners have no particular altruism re such a focus and presumably will be quite happy to dump such minor regional routes routes for LHR slots or feed, or to apply potential government funds (rather than raising their own risk capital) to international (suicidal) start ups, such as those allegedly being considered from LHR & LCY.
If the government wishes to assist the public and the regional airports, it should find a direct mechanism to do so, perhaps by simply tendering PSOs on the critical domestic routes (which would flush out any healthier alternative contenders).
The suggestion of a loan (presumably unsecured by VS/DL?) in lieu of owner's money is simply a "heads we win, tails they lose" for VS/DL, which leaves the latter with either a successfully revived Flybe or a deferred collapse, both at no cost to themselves.
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What ofher airline? Run the list.
Loganair are still digesting BMI Regional (this is the Stobart / flybe likely end game) so they’re maxed out.
Eastern not likely, ambition no longer there.
easyJet or Ryanair will cherry pick for volume and frequency needed by business can swivel. Ask IOM
Blue Islands? Nope
Aurigny? Bigger nope.
er.....
That’s it. All the lil guys are gone, a changing market and the killer of APD saw to that.
Many of the routes and frequencies will go unserved, unless Stobart really do step in and do a Loganair/BMI Regional.....
Loganair are still digesting BMI Regional (this is the Stobart / flybe likely end game) so they’re maxed out.
Eastern not likely, ambition no longer there.
easyJet or Ryanair will cherry pick for volume and frequency needed by business can swivel. Ask IOM
Blue Islands? Nope
Aurigny? Bigger nope.
er.....
That’s it. All the lil guys are gone, a changing market and the killer of APD saw to that.
Many of the routes and frequencies will go unserved, unless Stobart really do step in and do a Loganair/BMI Regional.....
If there's not a profitable market for the remainder of the routes, then a serious discussion on PSO needs to occur, in which case key and vital connecting routes can be subsidized. Think: NQY-LGW (which I believe NQY-LON is subsidized already), not LCY-LUX or LHR-DUS.
I will not however accept that the government should give a "commercial loan" (where no other commercial bank would) to throw good money after bad in subsidizing a very wealthy consortium of owners under the pretense of "If Flybe don't exist, who will fill the market?!". I don't care whether this is £1, £100m, or £500m - the government has no place in giving tax money to charlatan vulture funds, regardless of if it's dressed up in a pretty box masquerading to be a "loan".
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Eurostar??
Was announced this morning that the new direct Eurostar route LON-AMS will commence on 30th April, then also start serving ROT from May 18th, fares from as little as £35 each way, could this create a new competition hurdle for BE?? or any other airline for that matter??
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I can see easyJet lining up to take the best parts of the Flybe network. I'd not be surprised if easyJet opened on the larger short routes out of SOU with 319. BFS could easily be stepped up to accomdate BHD routes. BRS is a perfect alternative to CWL, I'd suggest already a large cohort of Wales/Cardiff residents go to BRS already anyway. Any viable /attractive routes would likely attract services in their own right.
The thinner niche routes like from more remote locations like EXT and NQY/ West Country would be picked up by Loganair, Stobart, Flybe, or Eastern and the government recognised where exemptions to APD should apply...
If there is demand the airlines who operate will provide jobs and sustainable services without need for public finances.
And at a time when for eg.the NHS and hospital system is under immense pressure (e.g. NI), how can the suggested £500M be even considered?
The thinner niche routes like from more remote locations like EXT and NQY/ West Country would be picked up by Loganair, Stobart, Flybe, or Eastern and the government recognised where exemptions to APD should apply...
If there is demand the airlines who operate will provide jobs and sustainable services without need for public finances.
And at a time when for eg.the NHS and hospital system is under immense pressure (e.g. NI), how can the suggested £500M be even considered?
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Unless you work in an airline finance department, then it's unlikely that you know what routes are 'cash cows'. That information is usually closely guarded information.
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This. People are on the edge waiting to hear if they will have a job going forward. Please can we all stop with the ridiculous rumours. Nobody is pumping the best part of a billion quid into the airline currently known as Flybe.
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Was announced this morning that the new direct Eurostar route LON-AMS will commence on 30th April, then also start serving ROT from May 18th, fares from as little as £35 each way, could this create a new competition hurdle for BE?? or any other airline for that matter??
The brand is trashed, well and truly! It’s a dead duck.
However, in cases where there is no sensible alternative (eg, routes that involve a water crossing or an all-day journey by other means) and where someone else is paying, I would suggest that much of that business will continue.
I work for a large Corp. and no-one in our corporate travel team is saying we shouldn't be booking Flybe flights (not surprisingly, they are saying we shouldn't go to China). I've just done one for a few weeks time and may well have another coming-up in mid-March, so ops normal from my perspective and probably many other business travellers.
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Probably not apart from for travelers from the Southeast, and even then with the laborious traipsing off the train to pass through UK border controls at Lille, which I believe still happens, over a distance such as AMS I would have thought the plane would still be competitive.
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I've been in the aviation business for a long long time, the cyclical nature of the business is frustrating and frankly sometimes worrying. Having read through the last number of posts on this thread quite frankly disgusts me. The number of keyboard warriors who know exactly what has happened and more surprising, what is going to happen, completely astounds me. From utter d*ckheads querying quality of maintenance to other financial experts who seem to know the exact profitability on each route FlyBe serve is actually scary. The next scary part is that some work experience reporter may also stumble upon these posts and publish them in the Daily Mail as some form of inside information.
Please stop! Before you post utter tripe remember that there are many hundreds of employees at FlyBe who find themselves in a position that was not of their making and their only intention is to put a roof over their heads and provide for their families.
As someone who is actually involved in aviation, unlike some of the posters on here, I don't know the full story of what happened in the Flybe boardroom nor do I know what is going to happen. I would suggest the vast majority of posters here are in the dark as much as me and to suggest otherwise is both irresponsible and mischievous. Please stop posting utter bollox when the reality is you have no idea. Go back to your flight sim or playstation and come back when you're adults.
Rant over.
Please stop! Before you post utter tripe remember that there are many hundreds of employees at FlyBe who find themselves in a position that was not of their making and their only intention is to put a roof over their heads and provide for their families.
As someone who is actually involved in aviation, unlike some of the posters on here, I don't know the full story of what happened in the Flybe boardroom nor do I know what is going to happen. I would suggest the vast majority of posters here are in the dark as much as me and to suggest otherwise is both irresponsible and mischievous. Please stop posting utter bollox when the reality is you have no idea. Go back to your flight sim or playstation and come back when you're adults.
Rant over.
