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Flybe-9

Old 2nd Jun 2020, 13:07
  #4101 (permalink)  
 
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I very much doubt the shenanigans will be revealed in public. I imagine that senior management will have their CVs marked by the collapse of Flybe - there are too many potential libel lawsuits and nobody is paying for a public inquiry.

If being hired for a role paying over £100k, you can certainly expect a new employer to Google the person and look them up at Companies House, even if they find a way to disguise their employment at Flybe. Any new employer is likely to be significantly smaller and lower profile
davidjohnson6 is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2020, 10:21
  #4102 (permalink)  
 
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Whilst I agree with the sentiment, doesn't 'mismanagement and misadventure' just mean bad decision making? I agree with davidjohnson6, the adventures of Flybe will have placed a less than desirable mark on the CV's of those senior executives involved in the decision making, and unfortunately even for those who might have disagreed with some of those decisions. Sound corporate governance during a recruitment process is vital.
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Old 3rd Jun 2020, 10:45
  #4103 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jamestkirk View Post

Hopefully when it’s all over there will be some investigation into what I read in one article called the years of ‘mismanagement and misadventure’. In my opinion it’s important so the people responsible don’t get the chance to destroy another company and in by doing so put thousands out of work.

The ex staff are entitled to know the chain of events.
What would an investigation reveal that we don't already know? That flyBe was saddled with an expensive and inappropriate (jet) fleet, had higher costs than aviation peers and poor market positioning at most of its largest stations. flyBe inherited legacy costs and obligations from the various mergers and purchases that formed it, BA Connect in particular - which was so loss making that BA paid flyBe to take it. Its a shame that the airline did not thrive, but it had a huge hill to climb with the expensive fleet a millstone around its neck, the APD eating into revenue from both domestic sectors and fierce competition from major UK bases from easyJet, Ryanair, Jet2 and BA.

The decision to increase the ACMI flying operation was a move in the right direction, but even that introduced complexity adding ATRs to a Q400/E-Jet fleet. Trying to hub with Virgin at MAN was an act of desperation and always doomed to my mind. No short-haul franchise partner has ever worked for VS and there have been a few over the years.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 14:50
  #4104 (permalink)  
 
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SealinkBF is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2020, 15:13
  #4105 (permalink)  
 
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You should tidy up that notification bar
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 18:26
  #4106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Startledgrapefruit View Post
You should tidy up that notification bar
Totally agree!
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Old 7th Jun 2020, 19:18
  #4107 (permalink)  
 
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  1. As to the interest from theinvestor, it was said that they were considering providing financial support to a European/UK partner making a bid for the operations of Flybe. Discussions were said to be ongoing to identify potential partners although these were not far enough progressed to be able to provide details. Supporting evidence of e-mail communications showed that a third party advisor who represented this investor had been granted access to the relevant data room, had signed an NDA and had been sent a copy of the relevant information memorandum.
  2. As to the interest from the non-EU resident individual, there was also supporting e-mail correspondence showing the signing of an NDA and provision of the information memorandum, together with an e-mail dated 3 April 2020 referring to an offer of  for certain items including the AOC, aircraft, “appropriate slots and routes to opaircraft”,flight simulator and 3 spare engines. This was described as a non-binding offer expressing interest in a cash deal for Flybe operations based on  aircraft. It was said that the EY M&A team and Flybe management were supporting this party in developing a financial model.

    The above is from the CAA doc. Has anyone got any idea if these two options were progressed or are progressing? Probably delayed while Covid 19 savaged the industry.
    Interesting to see what will happen (if anything)
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 08:19
  #4108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jamie2009 View Post
  1. As to the interest from theinvestor, it was said that they were considering providing financial support to a European/UK partner making a bid for the operations of Flybe. Discussions were said to be ongoing to identify potential partners although these were not far enough progressed to be able to provide details. Supporting evidence of e-mail communications showed that a third party advisor who represented this investor had been granted access to the relevant data room, had signed an NDA and had been sent a copy of the relevant information memorandum.
  2. As to the interest from the non-EU resident individual, there was also supporting e-mail correspondence showing the signing of an NDA and provision of the information memorandum, together with an e-mail dated 3 April 2020 referring to an offer of  for certain items including the AOC, aircraft, “appropriate slots and routes to opaircraft”,flight simulator and 3 spare engines. This was described as a non-binding offer expressing interest in a cash deal for Flybe operations based on  aircraft. It was said that the EY M&A team and Flybe management were supporting this party in developing a financial model.

    The above is from the CAA doc. Has anyone got any idea if these two options were progressed or are progressing? Probably delayed while Covid 19 savaged the industry.
    Interesting to see what will happen (if anything)
How does one buy an AOC and, for that matter, slots without having either the organisation, finances or aircraft in place?
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 08:55
  #4109 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing will happen. it is gone. flybe were in desperate need of restructuring but no-one there seemed to know how to do it. now the other regionals and (easyJet) are doing that restructuring by taking and developing the routes themselves. I think someone said it previously here but flybe were not as vital as they led themselves believe and now that delusion has cost them dear.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 13:44
  #4110 (permalink)  
 
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Sadly I have to agree with Cabsav, and I used to work for them. Covid19 aside there was never going to be any serious bids to buy the whole thing otherwise it would have happened in early 2019, if not before. All that was going to happen was some “chancer” was going to come along and cherry pick the best bits, if there ever were any. Why? Because Flybe had too much baggage and the only way to get a good regional airline doing what it did best, ie, competent people taking people from A to B safely and efficiently, was to let it die and start again. Anybody with an ounce of sense could see that but everyone buried their heads in the sand and thought it was too special to let go under.

When JF, AS and JR got into bed with BA and took on BA connect, the writing was on the wall. They thought they’d made the big time and from then on acted as such. They haemorrhaged cash and very soon couldn’t see a way out of it. The rest is history.

It’s a crying shame, but as in all these cases, the people that do all the hard work get “shafted” and the incompetent managers move sideways into another high paying job. There is a need for something like Flybe and I certainly don’t think Eastern or Loganair can fill the void. But someone will. Let’s just hope that whoever does focuses on providing the service people want and not trying to be something that regional airlines can never be.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 14:46
  #4111 (permalink)  
 
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I agree that the old Flybe is dead, it had serious underlying health issues and Covid19 finished it off.
Irrespective of the former leadership's issues I thought the new lot were doing a good job and had the right idea, when they got the keys to the castle and found the previous lot had already spent 80million of their investment there must have been some head in hands.
I don't think the full impact of Flybe's demise can be judged at the moment given there's nobody currently flying in lockdown and no demand.
When things do fire up (hopefully soon) who's going the fill the void? Easy Jet aren't going to fill a 200 seat jet on most routes and can Logan Air and Eastern really upscale
to fill the void of a 800million business with 8million passengers..... unlikely. RyanAir just moan about government bail outs but don't do any internal UK flights...

My prediction...... Some sort of Restart with the owned 20ish Dash only, bases at BHD, BHX, MAN, Poss SOU (although an expensive airport to operate from) and W pattern into EXT, NQY and LCY. No Scottish bases but some Scottish routes or possibly a joint base for EDI/GLA. Will be a nominal EXT HQ or move to BHX due to the number of local Q400 engineers, hangar plus simple geography and route structure. Will fly around the UK, Channel Islands, AMS, Poss CGD, Ireland and regional France summer only.....

Problem is there's not many investors around with spare cash at the moment to fund it........




Jamie2009 is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2020, 16:37
  #4112 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, agreed. Finding investment will be very tricky.
Although, easyjet have increased the Flybe Belfast route which was very busy. From Birmingham, Bristol, Glasgow and Manchester - all routes which had been served by Flybe. eastern are Now starting the Southampton to the northern and Scotland Airports. This reflects their old business model of the late noughties. And the channel island Operators are picking up jersey etc. That’s why I feel it would be hard for a start up to Commercially get somewhere with routes. And of course EY are looking to get as much capital out of the assets as possible. If it is, as they quoted £88m cash for the aircraft or (arguments sake) £60m for someone to operate them as an airline, they wont show much emotion in going for the former.
What a mess.

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Old 9th Jun 2020, 17:44
  #4113 (permalink)  
 
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Jamie2009 - it was an 800 million business that lost vast amounts of money. There is no point in trying to reinvent it.
willy wombat is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2020, 18:21
  #4114 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by willy wombat View Post
Jamie2009 - it was an 800 million business that lost vast amounts of money. There is no point in trying to reinvent it.
I know it lost money but my point is that Loss was due to extortionate legacy costs associated with the fleet and infrastructure. There was 800mil of business to be had and 8mil of passengers to fly I think that’s quite a bit for a regional carrier.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 20:36
  #4115 (permalink)  
 
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everyone is right here. FY 19 at £913m revenue and no profit!!!!!! That was such an opportunity. But much more than legacy. We can list the misadventures. Why did it not get a grip years ago and make the tough decisions needed. I think we know why. One of my main gripes is that senior management got paid hundreds of thousands to turn the business around and failed. It’s a bit rich that some are on LinkedIn trying to be the ex employees friends. They let those employees down. If anyone is being paid in the hundreds of thousands to make a business work and you benefit from that lucky situation, rightly take the blame when you failed to succeed.
cabsav is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2020, 21:52
  #4116 (permalink)  
 
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TBH I believe the core issue was BE wanted to be everything to everybody rather than have a core pax profile and going for that business. If they had been more focused on core profiles they probably would have had a reasonable chance of survival. Having worked with them for years they just seemed they wanted to be a low cost full fare scheduled charter business class economy regional international feeder airline all rolled into one!!!
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 09:10
  #4117 (permalink)  
 
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Alteagod.

Ha. Yes that pretty much sums up their business model.
And the hopeless management couldn't see what everyone else could. And as said before, I cannot see any of them at all the different levels apologise or take accountability. Sorry, my mistake, the strategy was working. Better paint another aircraft in lilac to celebrate.

Last edited by cabsav; 10th Jun 2020 at 09:11. Reason: grammar
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 19:50
  #4118 (permalink)  
 
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Website

What would one make of this? https://checkin.si.amadeus.net/stati...identification

Surely the website should be de-activated by now, and the Virgin Connect brand was never used...
NorthEasterner is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2020, 20:05
  #4119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Showed them the door before they got a chance to log off ?
Startledgrapefruit is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2020, 20:26
  #4120 (permalink)  
 
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Or it could be on the cards. Just thinking out loud given commonality with interested parties in VS and VA.
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