Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Flybe-9

Old 5th May 2020, 12:56
  #4101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: aberdeen
Posts: 75
I get the impression that some where thinking Flybe may be risen from the ashes. Now easyJet are doing MAN, GLA, BHX to BFS and MAN to ABZ. Who in their right mind would want to take on easyJet on these routes. The saying that if Flybe didn’t exist you would have to invent it is and was self promoting PR nonsense and gave the staff a false sense of security. As said so many times on this forum, great staff let down by talentless people in management positions.
cabsav is offline  
Old 5th May 2020, 13:08
  #4102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 418
Originally Posted by cabsav View Post
Now easyJet are doing MAN, GLA, BHX to BFS and MAN to ABZ. Who in their right mind would want to take on easyJet on these routes.
Well Flybe competed (successfully?) for years against Easyjet on MAN, GLA and BHX to Belfast. Sure Easy have recently announced MAN-ABZ but only single daily so an operator could compete against Easyjet on frequency if they had low enough trip costs.

Sending a 180 seat 320 to ABZ once a day is not a cheap exercise and not everyone will be prepared or willing to sacrifice convenience of travelling when they want to (rather than when Easyjet want them too) for price. I'd say there would be room for both Easy and Loganair when you start to compare monthly lease costs of the equipment used.
JobsaGoodun is offline  
Old 5th May 2020, 13:37
  #4103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: aberdeen
Posts: 75
jobsa..

Yes, sorry, should have clarified. I meant in the current aviation climate to risk taking on a major player.
cabsav is offline  
Old 5th May 2020, 21:09
  #4104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by cabsav View Post
I get the impression that some where thinking Flybe may be risen from the ashes. Now easyJet are doing MAN, GLA, BHX to BFS and MAN to ABZ. Who in their right mind would want to take on easyJet on these routes. The saying that if Flybe didn’t exist you would have to invent it is and was self promoting PR nonsense and gave the staff a false sense of security. As said so many times on this forum, great staff let down by talentless people in management positions.
There is a possibility of Flybe coming back it depends if the CAA will change it's mind and allow EY to keep hold of Flybe's AOC. If so there are around 20 parties interested in buying the airline & assets. Where do you get the impression that a new Flybe want's to take on EasyJet? I personally don't agree with the the PR nonsense statement, Flybe was essential to many people, it allowed those in the South West, North & Scotland to be in London within an hour, do a full days work and return home in time to see friends, family or put their children to bed, at a significantly lower price and time than the train. It provided links from Ireland & the Isle of Man to the UK that other airlines couldn't do, which is why it had an NHS contract to take patients to the UK. Don't forget the Flybe we know it is a mix of several regional airlines, JEA, Brymon, BA Connect, sadly all that history is now gone. Whatever happens another airline will come in to fill the void on the most profitable routes but I don't think we will see anything like what Flybe offered again. One thing I do agree on though is the bad management, which all started when Flybe was sold BA Connect, then the really bad Embraer deal Jim French set up, the Flybe Nordic, The expensive training academy which was far too big for Flybe's needs and couldn't be closed down as it was part funded by Government money, As someone who trained and worked for Flybe, I personally feel the only person who really did some good and actually got somewhere was Saad Hammad, whilst we will never know why he left, his replacement had a poor record and went on to spend money like no man's business, eventually leading to it being sold to the worst possible consortium, who used it as a PR exercise before giving up.
airsouthwest is offline  
Old 5th May 2020, 21:36
  #4105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 3,978
It'll likely be at least 12 months, most likely considerably longer, before air travel demand in the UK returns to what it was in 2019. In the meantime, the remaining core routes with the greatest chance of profit will all have been carved up by other airlines if they haven't been already. A resurrected Flybe would have a mountain to climb
Many of the companies interested in talking to EY about Flybe will be doing so to pick up individual bits of the remains - I don't see all 20 parties each being interested in buying the whole company

Yes, lovely little airline to fly on as a passenger, but as a company that lost large quantities of money for years and whose industry is in crisis, it's time to bid it a fond farewell
davidjohnson6 is offline  
Old 6th May 2020, 02:48
  #4106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: britain
Posts: 286
airsouthwest
I could'nt agree with more in what you said about Jim French and Saad Hammad
bean is offline  
Old 6th May 2020, 21:53
  #4107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: u.k.
Posts: 35
SH

Why will we “never know” why Saad left?? ( I assume he is still with us and not a victim of the current plague). Yes he will have signed a non-disclosure agreement - but with an entity that no longer exists! so he could speak out now if he was asked, or chooses to do so - although to what effect I know not.
His sudden departure sure puzzled me at the time but I retired a few months later (on schedule) so had other priorities.
twinboom is offline  
Old 7th May 2020, 12:43
  #4108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: aberdeen
Posts: 75
Asset strip

It is sad for ex employees that this is now the most likely outcome.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...ence-29npbg5th
Its a subscribe if anyone has but the gist is there. I would guess that the vast majority of offers are in the realms of buying assets then selling them on for a profit. I think Eastern did that to airsouthwest. I cannot see the government overruling the CAA on the appeal and with the other carriers picking up routes, why would they?. And why would a buyer think 'i will spend millions to buy an airline that has been an abject failure, in an industry thats on its knees'.

cabsav is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 08:50
  #4109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 743
if you look at Tripadvisor. As always, not down to the crews, but the people who implemented policies or in charge over the years but....

Out of 8146 passengers giving feedback, 44% said flybe was average, poor or terrible.

25% said terrible.

It is a snapshot but a general snapshot that gives the proof that customer service management at Exeter was something they were completely incompetent at.



jamestkirk is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 23:04
  #4110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 126
Flybe aviation services is due to be sold in the next few weeks so 'Flybe' as a whole is not gone. I think if Saad was going to say why he left it would have been in the first 6 months of his departure, why would anybody apart from us that used to work there be interested in an airline which has now gone?

airsouthwest is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 23:38
  #4111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by bean View Post
airsouthwest
I could'nt agree with more in what you said about Jim French and Saad Hammad
It was the poor lease agreements and the Embraer deal which had a significant impact on the airlines flexibility that's for sure. However, I still don't understand quite a few things that to me seem poor decisions by the board/company. In hindsight it's easy to say what could/couldn't have been done, but I feel the need to say this. This is by no means a reflection on the staff(my former colleagues until 2018) for their hard work and dedication.

Firstly, on pulling out of Gatwick(i.e where Flybe basically had a hub) why then split the operations over multiple London airports, Southend, Gatwick, London City, Stansted and eventually Heathrow. Surely having two or even three with the Heathrow slots would have been better. I would have moved the NQY-LGW flights to LCY, and merged the Stansted operations between Southend and London City, leaving only those two as flybe's "London" airports.

Secondly, I would not have rebranded Flybe to a purple scheme, the two tone blue was widely well known, and the brand was strong, although I would have modified the livery at the tail to remove the fly-be style to that of the purple livery, nothing else would change.

On taking the ex-Republic Q400s, I would have looked to ditch some of the older more expensive leased Q400s, even if it meant a higher initial cost of cancelling leases. The E195's are a tricky one, as from what i've been told it was cheaper to ground them to fly them. Given that they still had a further 6 years on lease it may have been cheaper to cancel the leases rather than continue to pay for them, alternatively base them out of Manchester, Birmingham and London, reduce service frequency in the hope of filling the aircraft up more, freeing up E175s to possibly take over some Q400 services, so the Q4s could be used to test new markets?

I do think Saad did a very good job with the mess he inherited, but overall on looking back the amount of money Flybe threw away on rebranding, cost's cuttings that actually increased costs! It all just seems to be quite a mess, this is just my opinion, some people will probably know more as to why these decision happened, or may think i'm talking rubbish.

airsouthwest is offline  
Old 11th May 2020, 06:54
  #4112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Belfast
Posts: 66
You could also say they needed a CEO with a media personality.
At the time Molly and Stellio were the life and soul of the party
Unfortunately Flybe had the two drinks and staring at the floor wondering what was going wrong leader
Then replaced by someone who baked a cake with a soggy bottom and covered it in icing.
Media played a big part in its downfall.
Startledgrapefruit is offline  
Old 11th May 2020, 10:12
  #4113 (permalink)  
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: TOD
Posts: 1,340
Originally Posted by Startledgrapefruit View Post
Media played a big part in its downfall.
Inconsequential compared to the long-standing inability generate profit.


speedrestriction is offline  
Old 11th May 2020, 11:08
  #4114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Belfast
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by speedrestriction View Post
Inconsequential compared to the long-standing inability generate profit.
True
But once SKY poos got the leak bookings dropped
Startledgrapefruit is offline  
Old 11th May 2020, 12:54
  #4115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 3,978
Flybe had been in trouble for about 10 years. In the very best years, they made a profit of 1% of turnover. In plenty of years, they made a loss of significantly more than 1% of turnover. BA by contrast in good years make a profit of 10% of turnover

There's only so much in losses that suppliers, lenders and investors will tolerate before goodwill eventually runs out
davidjohnson6 is offline  
Old 12th May 2020, 16:50
  #4116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by davidjohnson6 View Post
Flybe had been in trouble for about 10 years. In the very best years, they made a profit of 1% of turnover. In plenty of years, they made a loss of significantly more than 1% of turnover. BA by contrast in good years make a profit of 10% of turnover

There's only so much in losses that suppliers, lenders and investors will tolerate before goodwill eventually runs out
Yeah but Flybe is a different business model to British Airways, Flybe is/was a regional airline, if you take a look across the world, most regional airlines have thin margins, low wages and high turnover of staff. On the whole the whole operating 3 different types of aircraft, one of which is more expensive to lease than a larger a320 really just shows why flybe's margins took a hit. The sad thing is that only 10 days before Flybe folded, they had finally got down to their aspired two type fleet of Dash 8-400s and E175s, maybe if things had been managed better, they had a bit more cash flow and a little longer then they might have weathered this storm.
airsouthwest is offline  
Old 13th May 2020, 08:12
  #4117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Nuweiba
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
Yeah but Flybe is a different business model to British Airways, Flybe is/was a regional airline, if you take a look across the world, most regional airlines have thin margins, low wages and high turnover of staff. On the whole the whole operating 3 different types of aircraft, one of which is more expensive to lease than a larger a320 really just shows why flybe's margins took a hit. The sad thing is that only 10 days before Flybe folded, they had finally got down to their aspired two type fleet of Dash 8-400s and E175s, maybe if things had been managed better, they had a bit more cash flow and a little longer then they might have weathered this storm.
I doubt very that they would have weathered this storm.
Nuweiba is offline  
Old 13th May 2020, 08:34
  #4118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 743
I agree. Most believe it was just a matter of when. Coronavirus or HMG was not the problem causing of the downfall of flybe.

EY were marketing the administration as a going concern. They already have taken the next step down from that and iMHO it will be soon when they announce a further step down to say that it is a liquidation exercise.

I can only assume the offers EY had for the company were chancers at unacceptably low or asset strippers trying to the advantage of the situation. Personally, i believe realistic offers would be for asset stripping but of course could be totally wrong.

jamestkirk is offline  
Old 15th May 2020, 18:01
  #4119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by Nuweiba View Post
I doubt very that they would have weathered this storm.
I think they could of i, like I said with a bit more cash, more time etc. I wouldn't have put it if I didn't believe it. Sadly we will never know now. On the whole the airline had been failed multiple times and as you say it was only a matter of time. So many bad decision have been made by multiple CEOs, one thing I never understood was the need to fly from multiple airports across London, rather than having ideally two, with the maximum of three to include Heathrow ops in 2017. Other issues seemed to by flying from the wrong airports, or airports closer to larger ones, for example Durham Tees when most people would fly from Newcastle Int. The inflight menu in my opinion seemed over generous for choice for flights lasting only 55 minutes. The and the decision to scale back European routes to be more UK centric doesn't seem to have done the company any favours.
airsouthwest is offline  
Old 15th May 2020, 18:34
  #4120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 156
Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
Other issues seemed to by flying from the wrong airports, or airports closer to larger ones, for example Durham Tees when most people would fly from Newcastle Int.
Out of these two airports, Flybe mainly flew from NCL to SOU and EXT year round, they only flew to JER seasonally from MME. The rest of the MME operation was T3 / Eastern.
NorthEasterner is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.