Southampton-2
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Last flight Sunday 19th May according to the website. Another one bites the dust then unfortunately.
A weather diversion and airline pulling out in the same day? SOU must be doomed.
A weather diversion and airline pulling out in the same day? SOU must be doomed.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
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Probably the worst week ever for SOU,can it survive? If the fore coming Connect airways cut services then things look bleak.There will be only one winner with SOU demise and it's just down the road: BOU!!
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Blimey, last one turn the lights out. With the possible route contraction of BE following the takeover, SOU could be down to the bare bones. On a positive note, airport expansion next year could open up an airline to have free reign on route choice!
Join Date: Nov 2015
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On a less positive note,will anyone want to take up the routes,I believe numbers were good for Cork?,KLM had good loads,the smaller airlines are disappearing rapidly,BMI have now gone.Could be Southampton will contract significantly even if it gets its expansion plans to frutrition!
Join Date: Dec 2011
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If that was an issue why would they have started serving the route in the first place? The real reason is that AMS is slot restricted, and KLM obviously needed to cut some routes to make room for some new ones. KLM cityhopper are also short on aircraft I believe. I am sure they would continue to serve the route quite happily otherwise.
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Exactly that, some seem to think that a 170m extension/start up alone is gonna open the flood gates to EZY/LCC ops!!! If the main reason why EZY didn't open a base a BOH years ago, was the size and capacity of the then new arrrivals terminal (drastically downsized from the original plans to save money) then I think factors like curfew and weather conditions aren't going to look too attractive to a LCC from SOU.
Technology must exist (or will exist) to deal with the crap weather and minima. The C series lands fine on a quay in the river thames with a a number of skyscrapers at the end of an even shorter runway. Aurigny are getting ATRs fitted with EVS to help land in fog on islands in the middle of the sea. SOU cannot have it that bad. Of course this type of investment would come from the airlines, not SOU themselves. It seems so odd that they continue to not invest in technology, infrastructure etc to help ease the longstanding issues. If you read the new masterplan there is absolutely no mention of any investment in nav aids, runway lights, grooving etc. There is also no mention of any improvement to the baggage systems, which would be required to handle a few airbus sized aircraft at the same time.
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I'm not sure the problems with fog are half as bad as is being made out. How many days a year are affected in all seriousness? Also with the RVR on R20 being 800m how many of those fog days are actually between 550m and 800m so that R20 is really a thorn in it's side? Probably not that many (yes I've operated from SOU for years before you ask). If it's foggy in SOU it's normally below 550m so unless a CAT II is installed the current RVR restriction is largely irrelevant. Many airfields in the UK operate without a CAT II system, EXT, CWL, LCY, ABZ, BHD to name a few. I use SOU as one of my primary alternates virtually every day and it's rarely a marginal decision, it's either completely out or I can use it.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Southampton, U.K
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This really isn't looking good for SOU. Assuming Flybe in some form stick around there will just have them and Aurigny as year round operators, with a few EZY flights in the winter and Volotea charters in the summer. A real shame to see, because 18 months ago or so it looked like the airport was finally starting to succeed to diversifying it's airline portfolio. Is the reason for Aer Lingus pulling out known, I assume it was just lower than expected passengers or yields? While certain posters on here particularly enjoy pedalling the tired 'no one wants to fly from BOH' line, they have attracted a new airline and notable growth from the two main carriers despite it's own significant access limitations.
I do hope we see some indications of the runway extension being utilised later in the and that some of the rumoured Wizz or additional EZY flights come to fruition, otherwise a lot of money is gonna be going straight down the drain!
I do hope we see some indications of the runway extension being utilised later in the and that some of the rumoured Wizz or additional EZY flights come to fruition, otherwise a lot of money is gonna be going straight down the drain!
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Totally agree, let's not open the BOH V SOU debate but let's put BOH down anyway...laughable comment.We all know Bournemouth is far popular, CAA stats are fake news, ask D.Trump...
It's sad news, the airport industry is a harsh envornment to be in. Much of your CAPEX costs are CAA/ICAO mandated such as new security measures or airfield equipment renewal, yet there's little profit benefit of doing it except keeping the business open. Airlines can pick and choose their routes and have the upperhand in negotiating flying from your airport. Tough times are predicted for the future too with Brexit etc.
It's sad news, the airport industry is a harsh envornment to be in. Much of your CAPEX costs are CAA/ICAO mandated such as new security measures or airfield equipment renewal, yet there's little profit benefit of doing it except keeping the business open. Airlines can pick and choose their routes and have the upperhand in negotiating flying from your airport. Tough times are predicted for the future too with Brexit etc.
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Whenever I used the Southampton-Cork service, it always had excellent loads. Maybe the airframe is now to be used on more feeder flights into the Dublin and the Aer Lingus long haul hub from elsewhere?
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe I am posting on the SOU thread? If I was posting negative comments about BOH on the BOH thread you might have had a point. In fact, I have posted a number of times to try and quell the debate before it got started. Don't let that get in the way of your prejudices though.
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Fair point, my comment was a bit flippant. To be more specific, I suspect it might be fair to say that SOU lives and dies by its popularity with the general public as a worthwhile airport, whereas it is probably more ancillary for BOH. I'm sure Ryanair aren't paying BOH very much, and 700k does not sound as impressive if you know they are all paying a few quid to fly. Saying that, if SOU does not sort itself shortly then I am sure BOH will benefit by default.
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I'm not sure the problems with fog are half as bad as is being made out. How many days a year are affected in all seriousness? Also with the RVR on R20 being 800m how many of those fog days are actually between 550m and 800m so that R20 is really a thorn in it's side? Probably not that many (yes I've operated from SOU for years before you ask). If it's foggy in SOU it's normally below 550m so unless a CAT II is installed the current RVR restriction is largely irrelevant. Many airfields in the UK operate without a CAT II system, EXT, CWL, LCY, ABZ, BHD to name a few. I use SOU as one of my primary alternates virtually every day and it's rarely a marginal decision, it's either completely out or I can use it.
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It has been 10 years since retirement so things may have changed. An aircraft on approach cannot descend below 1000ft above the runway if at that point the actual RVR is below the prescribed minima for that category approach. . Otherwise the approach may be continued to Decision Ht even if the RVR falls below that limit as it is now advisory. At Decision Ht the landing pilot must have sufficient visual reference, which varies according to the ILS category i.e. I II or III. If these criteria are satisfied, the aircraft can continue to land. At SOU the ILS is category I, which for most CAT I airports is minima 550m and a DH of 200ft above airfield. AT SOU on runway 20 the minima's are higher owing to a combination of high buildings at the railway yard, runway length and width and approach/touchdown lighting.
Try checking Leeds/Bradford, Jersey and Guernsey for their diversion records! I can recall being stuck in Jersey for 3 days awaiting an aircraft to arrive! Twice I have landed at SOU in B737-400 having diverted from LHR due to poor visibility with aircraft that had been downgraded from CAT III to CAT I due to unserviceability!
A previous post has a good point in that diversions do not happen that often in the overall scheme of things. I would question decisions by certain operators to actually take off from elsewhere, heading for SOU when the likelihood of a go around there is high, especially from MAN, JER or GCI which are so close in terms of flight time that it would be better to wait on the ground until an improvement. That would avoid a lot of unnecessary fuel burn and wasted time for customers plus not having aircraft and crews out of position.
When it comes to opening hours, the restrictions at SOU would not have affected KLM as a 0630 departure from SOU would easily have arrived in AMS within the early morning time window as would the reverse before airport closure. Many other UK airports, some used by KLM, have night closure, including LHR! And these airports are very accommodating, generally, with extensions needed as a result of weather disruptions. These limits are usually the subject of planning regulations by the local authorities and a strict nil operations policy exists following approved extensions. I was once denied landing at ABZ at 3nm from touchdown, they switched the approach and runway lights off, as I would miss the deadline on the extension already granted. 1 minute!! Diverted to Glasgow and passengers transferred by road to Aberdeen airport arriving at 4am! That's it for now.
Try checking Leeds/Bradford, Jersey and Guernsey for their diversion records! I can recall being stuck in Jersey for 3 days awaiting an aircraft to arrive! Twice I have landed at SOU in B737-400 having diverted from LHR due to poor visibility with aircraft that had been downgraded from CAT III to CAT I due to unserviceability!
A previous post has a good point in that diversions do not happen that often in the overall scheme of things. I would question decisions by certain operators to actually take off from elsewhere, heading for SOU when the likelihood of a go around there is high, especially from MAN, JER or GCI which are so close in terms of flight time that it would be better to wait on the ground until an improvement. That would avoid a lot of unnecessary fuel burn and wasted time for customers plus not having aircraft and crews out of position.
When it comes to opening hours, the restrictions at SOU would not have affected KLM as a 0630 departure from SOU would easily have arrived in AMS within the early morning time window as would the reverse before airport closure. Many other UK airports, some used by KLM, have night closure, including LHR! And these airports are very accommodating, generally, with extensions needed as a result of weather disruptions. These limits are usually the subject of planning regulations by the local authorities and a strict nil operations policy exists following approved extensions. I was once denied landing at ABZ at 3nm from touchdown, they switched the approach and runway lights off, as I would miss the deadline on the extension already granted. 1 minute!! Diverted to Glasgow and passengers transferred by road to Aberdeen airport arriving at 4am! That's it for now.
Fog again and maybe tomorrow too - No inbounds at the moment - some Deps' have got away OK
Wind 100° 3kt. Visibility 450m. RVR runway 20 550m
BOH affected too - the GVA-BOH is currently on descent over the new forest 3000'
RVR 450m Vis 200m
EDIT
the GVA-BOH just landed - well done
Inbound KLM & Flybe EDI and GLA just dep'd - but both JER & GCI delayed
Wind 100° 3kt. Visibility 450m. RVR runway 20 550m
BOH affected too - the GVA-BOH is currently on descent over the new forest 3000'
RVR 450m Vis 200m
EDIT
the GVA-BOH just landed - well done
Inbound KLM & Flybe EDI and GLA just dep'd - but both JER & GCI delayed
Last edited by rog747; 22nd Feb 2019 at 07:01.