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Southampton-2

Old 16th Apr 2019, 14:25
  #1521 (permalink)  
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Rumour has it the E75’s are being lined up to operate med routes next year. Not sure they can with current field length limitations!
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 14:37
  #1522 (permalink)  
 
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Unless they are Fly Maybe's under powered variants, may be workable. With the runway extension in place I remain curious as to whether BEE's E175s will be able to do anything other than UK internal flights.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 15:50
  #1523 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;10448868]Unless they are Fly Maybe's under powered variants, may be workable. With the runway extension in place I remain curious as to whether BEE's E175s will be able to do anything other than UK internal flights

I understand that SOU's proposed runway extension is similar to SEN. SEN is now successfuly operating B738 and A320 equipment on sector lengths of almost four hours, why then is SOU not going to be able to offer the same?


I'm sure there is an operational and performance reason.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 15:59
  #1524 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by stewyb View Post
Rumour has it the E75’s are being lined up to operate med routes next year. Not sure they can with current field length limitations!
Maybe that’s the clue...
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 16:14
  #1525 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=Planespeaking;10448938]
Originally Posted by TCAS FAN View Post
Unless they are Fly Maybe's under powered variants, may be workable. With the runway extension in place I remain curious as to whether BEE's E175s will be able to do anything other than UK internal flights

I understand that SOU's proposed runway extension is similar to SEN. SEN is now successfuly operating B738 and A320 equipment on sector lengths of almost four hours, why then is SOU not going to be able to offer the same?

I'm sure there is an operational and performance reason.
While the northern extension will provide some improvements to take-off weights for 20 departures, there is still (currently) the problem of obstacles in the take-off/climb area. Once the current legal process is completed, and hopefully Marhill Copse gets a haircut, we will finally get to see what is achievable.

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Old 16th Apr 2019, 16:32
  #1526 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks TCAS
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Old 17th Apr 2019, 11:35
  #1527 (permalink)  
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Not surprised in the slightest if its gone pete tong at Flylolo! Website now showing only Skopelos via Skiathos as a destination

Last edited by stewyb; 17th Apr 2019 at 12:10.
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Old 17th Apr 2019, 12:15
  #1528 (permalink)  
 
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It certainly looks that way

Unable to bring up any dates now and prices

I really don't know what has happened here, it seems a well-respected ex-airline / holiday company director has most certainly not done his research as regarding selling popular destinations, start with Palma and go from there

All wording about SOU has been removed and they look like they are concentrating on a few add hoc charters from LGW / GLA / MAN for the Xmas period using Aer Europa

TUS air FK 70
Austrian Emb 195
Airbus A319

Last edited by MARKEYD; 17th Apr 2019 at 16:39.
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Old 17th Apr 2019, 12:24
  #1529 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=MARKEYD;10449538]It certainly looks that way

Unable to bring up any dates now and prices

I really don't know what has happened here, it seems a well-respected ex-airline / holiday company director has most certainly not done his research as regarding selling popular destinations, start with Palma and go from there

TUS air FK 70
Austrian Emb 195

Well all I can say is I'm surprised anyone is surprised, however in this age of not causing offence...I hope I'm wrong!
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Old 17th Apr 2019, 18:45
  #1530 (permalink)  
 
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If indeed it has all gone south I’ve got a theory as to what happened...

In one of the documents accompanying the airport masterplan there was a graph of projected pax numbers which showed a pretty substantially jump between 2018 and 2019.
I suspect that in the early days of the masterplan project they had hoped to get the runway extension completed in winter 18/19 ready for expansion from summer 19 onwards.
For whatever reason the plans have been delayed and my money is now on the extension happening this winter coming, 19/20.
If that’s the case I wonder if Lolo were caught out by this?
They perhaps started a limited Skiathos operation to get their name out there and test the water, with plans to return the following year when the extended runway and other development work would allow them to reach new and unserved destinations with any medium-sized twin that they could find, as they would now be able to operate economically from SOU.
However when the runway extension got delayed they now had to scramble around trying to find an aircraft that was available in peak summer, able to lift a decent load off SOU’s still-unsuitable runway, and able to reach destinations around the eastern Med with those decent loads. Hence the confusion and conflicting reports we’ve heard about the aircraft- there isn’t one out there that can satisfactorily do the job out of SOU as it stands. As people have alluded to before, if these routes were feasible out of SOU at the moment they’d have been tried already.
They’ve also seemed a lot less professional than may be desired, and no doubt have been responsible for a lot of the current mess, but I can’t help but wonder if this was a decent idea but unlucky, unfortunately timed, and not well-executed.
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Old 17th Apr 2019, 19:10
  #1531 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nutts Mutts View Post
If indeed it has all gone south I’ve got a theory as to what happened...

In one of the documents accompanying the airport masterplan there was a graph of projected pax numbers which showed a pretty substantially jump between 2018 and 2019.
I suspect that in the early days of the masterplan project they had hoped to get the runway extension completed in winter 18/19 ready for expansion from summer 19 onwards.
For whatever reason the plans have been delayed and my money is now on the extension happening this winter coming, 19/20.
If that’s the case I wonder if Lolo were caught out by this?
They perhaps started a limited Skiathos operation to get their name out there and test the water, with plans to return the following year when the extended runway and other development work would allow them to reach new and unserved destinations with any medium-sized twin that they could find, as they would now be able to operate economically from SOU.
However when the runway extension got delayed they now had to scramble around trying to find an aircraft that was available in peak summer, able to lift a decent load off SOU’s still-unsuitable runway, and able to reach destinations around the eastern Med with those decent loads. Hence the confusion and conflicting reports we’ve heard about the aircraft- there isn’t one out there that can satisfactorily do the job out of SOU as it stands. As people have alluded to before, if these routes were feasible out of SOU at the moment they’d have been tried already.
They’ve also seemed a lot less professional than may be desired, and no doubt have been responsible for a lot of the current mess, but I can’t help but wonder if this was a decent idea but unlucky, unfortunately timed, and not well-executed.
The problem with a runway extension is that it will be fought tooth and nail by the local antis.

At SEN we had a number of high court judicial reviews before the case against a longer runway was thrown out. But that caused months of delays and legal costs.

I wish SOU well but like anything else in our country any infrastructure changes lifts the carpet and all sorts things crawl out.
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Old 18th Apr 2019, 05:54
  #1532 (permalink)  
 
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If Flylolo has now def canx their remaining SOU S19 program bar the JSI flight (to be op again by Flybe?) then it is indeed a great blow to SOU.

Their website today is slow and clunky and the JSI dates have also gone off except 2 one-off dates in Aug and Sep.


I think we all know that their problem to source a suitable airline and aircraft type to enable these ops from SOU was a formidable task, and was known at least 6 months ago , given the constraints of operating from SOU to 3-4 hour length destinations with around 100 seats...

Now couple that with both the latest charter airline failures, and the 737 MAX debacle I would think that there are simply no aircraft available.

Edit
Had Flybe been in better shape then they perhaps could have had a based EMB jet at SOU for charter OPs such as what Flylolo wanted.
(like BACF do all weekend at various UK airports all summer long with a big Med IT programme)
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Old 18th Apr 2019, 08:14
  #1533 (permalink)  
 
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They’ve also seemed a lot less professional than may be desired, and no doubt have been responsible for a lot of the current mess, but I can’t help but wonder if this was a decent idea but unlucky, unfortunately timed, and not well-executed.
Basing your business plans on a runway extension not yet announced, much less approved seems on the outer edges of "brave"...

The problem with a runway extension is that it will be fought tooth and nail by the local antis.
It wouldn't surprise you, but is there any evidence of opposition locally? Maybe we need to wait until the application goes in formally, but the roadshows didn't seem to attract much opposition.
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Old 18th Apr 2019, 09:15
  #1534 (permalink)  
 
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'It wouldn't surprise you, but is there any evidence of opposition locally? Maybe we need to wait until the application goes in formally, but the roadshows didn't seem to attract much opposition'

Well the Scoping planning submission with Eastleigh Borough Council has over 40 objections submitted on the applications website.

https://planning.eastleigh.gov.uk/s/...IMEA0/v1884594
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Old 18th Apr 2019, 09:31
  #1535 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by zantopst View Post
'It wouldn't surprise you, but is there any evidence of opposition locally? Maybe we need to wait until the application goes in formally, but the roadshows didn't seem to attract much opposition'

Well the Scoping planning submission with Eastleigh Borough Council has over 40 objections submitted on the applications website.

https://planning.eastleigh.gov.uk/s/...IMEA0/v1884594
ridiculously some of these objections have come from home owners in Dorset!🤔
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Old 18th Apr 2019, 10:18
  #1536 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Planespeaking View Post


The problem with a runway extension is that it will be fought tooth and nail by the local antis.

At SEN we had a number of high court judicial reviews before the case against a longer runway was thrown out. But that caused months of delays and legal costs.

I wish SOU well but like anything else in our country any infrastructure changes lifts the carpet and all sorts things crawl out.
​​​​​​Don't be dismayed. The original plan at SEN involved moving a 900 year old church and extending the runway to 2000m. The later application leaving the church in place; a shorter extension and moving a road was submitted in October 2009 and given final approval by the communites secretary the following March. There were 2 applications for judicial review - both denied.
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Old 18th Apr 2019, 11:13
  #1537 (permalink)  
 
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I really don’t know why so many people on the forum are so keen to see SOU develop into just another regional airport. As I have mentioned before, SOU is very, very different from most other regionals, and is located in a very geographically-challenging location. It is a largely urban/suburban area, hemmed-in by industrial sites, high density housing, a railway works which is growing rather than declining, a railway depot, a station and a motorway. It is actually within the town of Eastleigh, and well within the contiguous built-up Southampton/Solent area. Nearby Portsmouth is the most densely-populated built-up area in the UK – even greater than central London, and Southampton just to the south of the airport is the third most densely-populated area. In such a location, any expansion is likely to be unpopular.

The South Hampshire Metropolitan area has a combined population of over 1.5 million, It is the most populated part of south east England, excluding London, making it the most densely populated region in the UK. As such, I have always considered SOU as a regional version of LCY. Not withstanding the uncertainty with Flyby/Connect, SOU’s essential role will always be frequent, domestic and short haul European traffic primarily for the business market – operated by small aircraft. These kind of routes have always been reasonably profitable, as they can operate with fuel/cost-efficient turboprops and a relatively high fare can be charged for the convenience of flying from a local airport. Indeed, the business community has always appreciated the quick ‘breeze-through’ approach to flying from SOU because it is a small airport!

There will always be a market for a limited number of sun routes/ski routes etc., and the importance of the Channel Island business can never be underestimated. But, even if the runway extension happens, I firmly believe that the requirements for the low-cost/holiday/package business can be far better served at Bournemouth.
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Old 18th Apr 2019, 11:57
  #1538 (permalink)  
 
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A very considered post SotonFlightpath; I agree there are currently similarities between SOU and LCY.

I would love to see a small operation from BA Cityflyer using their ERJ190's or 170's to Europe and also provide some competition on domestics
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Old 18th Apr 2019, 14:21
  #1539 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sharklet_321 View Post
A very considered post SotonFlightpath; I agree there are currently similarities between SOU and LCY.

I would love to see a small operation from BA Cityflyer using their ERJ190's or 170's to Europe and also provide some competition on domestics
Thanks Sharklet 321, I totally agree a small operation by BA Cityflyer - a mix of a few 'business capitals' plus some sun/leisure routes at the weekend would be ideal, and this is exactly the sort of business that SOU should be trying to attract.
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Old 18th Apr 2019, 14:33
  #1540 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SotonFlightpath View Post
I really don’t know why so many people on the forum are so keen to see SOU develop into just another regional airport. As I have mentioned before, SOU is very, very different from most other regionals, and is located in a very geographically-challenging location. It is a largely urban/suburban area, hemmed-in by industrial sites, high density housing, a railway works which is growing rather than declining, a railway depot, a station and a motorway. It is actually within the town of Eastleigh, and well within the contiguous built-up Southampton/Solent area. Nearby Portsmouth is the most densely-populated built-up area in the UK – even greater than central London, and Southampton just to the south of the airport is the third most densely-populated area. In such a location, any expansion is likely to be unpopular.

The South Hampshire Metropolitan area has a combined population of over 1.5 million, It is the most populated part of south east England, excluding London, making it the most densely populated region in the UK. As such, I have always considered SOU as a regional version of LCY. Not withstanding the uncertainty with Flyby/Connect, SOU’s essential role will always be frequent, domestic and short haul European traffic primarily for the business market – operated by small aircraft. These kind of routes have always been reasonably profitable, as they can operate with fuel/cost-efficient turboprops and a relatively high fare can be charged for the convenience of flying from a local airport. Indeed, the business community has always appreciated the quick ‘breeze-through’ approach to flying from SOU because it is a small airport!

There will always be a market for a limited number of sun routes/ski routes etc., and the importance of the Channel Island business can never be underestimated. But, even if the runway extension happens, I firmly believe that the requirements for the low-cost/holiday/package business can be far better served at Bournemouth.
not sure what point you’re trying to make? Low cost operators spring up all over the world and can turn even the sleepiest place into a low cost base. Southampton is the biggest city South of London and has unrivalled public transport links to London (Bournemouth is neither of these). Southend has attracted both Ryanair and EasyJet off the back of investment, and Southampton will too if they get on with it. Let’s not forget Southampton is also the biggest turn around cruise port in Europe (think Bournemouth has a few fishing boats?). If we are arguing over which airport is ripe for a change of use then Bournemouth is definitely in need of some more retirement homes.
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