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Southampton-2

Old 20th Feb 2018, 12:58
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Lolo Flights

Looks to be a very interesting operation. I daresay that it is exactly the sort of operation SOU could do well with, as it fills a niche that no major carrier can really compete with directly. Only Murcia and Corfu are served from BOH, and none of those routes are currently served from SOU.

The Kalamata flights that briefly appeared for this year have now disappeared, and only show for 2019.

Despite their failed attempt to start from MAN and BOH in 2017, they seem to be doing alright now, having seemingly sold out most of the odd flights from LGW/MAN/GLA to the Canaries last xmas. They are also selling 2 weekly MAN-TFS flights (presumably using Air Europa as per their other Canaries flights) this summer holidays in addition to SOU-JSI, and also have a few more flights to the canaries loaded for this coming xmas.

Hopefully they can make a success of it all!
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 14:32
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The question is what equipment would be used and by whom. Flybe are reducing their E195 fleet down to 1? in S19 and therefore cannot see this as an option!

Last edited by stewyb; 20th Feb 2018 at 15:37.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 18:44
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I would imagine that this years Skiathos flights will be the telling answer as to how they perform with “‘Lo Lo “ before anyone gets to excited with a list of school boy destinations
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 03:28
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Originally Posted by Wycombe
Not so sure about the former, but Tivat is in a beautiful part of the world, near to the fjord-like scenery of Kotor, Montenegro. Not far from Dubrovnik, but an interesting alternative destination.

Hoping to head that way myself in just over a month (with BA to DBV).
Having personally been to Dubrovnik as well as Montenegro including the old town of Kotor and its marvellous fjord, Budva, Centinjae and Tivat I thoroughly recommend visiting the country :-)

I'm not questioning there appeal but the reason I questioned Tivat as well as Pristina was because of the fact that there are other destinations one could consider obvious from SOU before those two despite their individual appeal!
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 14:14
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Anybody know the reasoning for PMI being slashed from 7 flights weekly S17 (3 Flybe/2 TUI/2 Volotea) to 4 (2 Flybe/2 TUI) S18?
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 17:15
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I think this has already been discussed a little while ago , but obviously Volotea are not operating this year so thats 2 flights down , then Flybe have cut back 1 flight to accommodate the new Skiathos flights with ' Lo Lo ' flights and are operating the other flight on ' put put ' aircraft rather than a E195

I think Ryanair have picked up on this and are operating double daily flights on a SAT and TUE in August and September from Bournemouth which didn't happen last year
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 18:25
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I know where the reductions have come from but just curious as to why capacity has been cut back by circa 40%, that's very significant and if the route was successful like I assumed it was, would the airport not have tried to fill the void!

Last edited by stewyb; 23rd Feb 2018 at 18:46.
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 11:35
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At last a positive development!

Included in tomorrow's (1 March) AIP Amendment is a new RNAV (GNSS) instrument approach procedure for runway 02.

At last a 21st century instrument approach procedure as an alternative to the antiquated offset VOR/DME and NDB non precision approaches, with a 100FT+ reduction in the OCA compared to other 02 IAPs for CAT C aircraft.

Now all we now need is a RNAV (GNSS) procedure for 20 to replace the non precision procedures. Might take even longer to come to fruition due to a need for an Airspace Change Proposal to provide the additional controlled airspace to contain the procedure inside?

The significance of this safety improvement appears to have been missed by the airport's media machine, nothing found on the airport's website
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 11:49
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There is already a precision approach on runway 20 - It's the ILS. The GNSS is non-precision too.
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 11:57
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The airport is probably in a bit of flux given lack of MD
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 12:48
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destinationsky

The 02 GNSS IAP has the LPV option, ie Localiser performance with vertical guidance.

Am more than aware that 20 has an ILS, look at the options for CAT C aircraft when the ILS is off for maintenance or is U/S, NDB (offset), VOR/DME off set (circling minima with an 890FT OCA!) or an SRA (subject ATCO availability, no approaches available when combined TWR/APS being provided).

Bring on the LPV procedure for 20!
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 13:25
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
At last a positive development!

Included in tomorrow's (1 March) AIP Amendment is a new RNAV (GNSS) instrument approach procedure for runway 02.

At last a 21st century instrument approach procedure as an alternative to the antiquated offset VOR/DME and NDB non precision approaches, with a 100FT+ reduction in the OCA compared to other 02 IAPs for CAT C aircraft.

Now all we now need is a RNAV (GNSS) procedure for 20 to replace the non precision procedures. Might take even longer to come to fruition due to a need for an Airspace Change Proposal to provide the additional controlled airspace to contain the procedure inside?

The significance of this safety improvement appears to have been missed by the airport's media machine, nothing found on the airport's website
To the lay-man, what does this exactly mean?👍
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 14:59
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TCAS FAN
It's good news on the RNAV approach,with OCH 364 (@LPV)it's much better then What we have now!
Let's hope for airside development announcement know?- well you can only hope!
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 15:35
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stewyb

Until the advent of GPS based procedures, instrument approach procedures were provided by ground based equipment, either radio navigation aids or radar systems.

If you wanted an instrument approach procedure to make an approach in line with the runway you normally had to locate the radio navigation aid in line with the runway (eg, an ILS localiser), or you could locate a VOR or NDB in line with the runway, the latter is often not practicable due to off airport developments.

SOU has an ILS on one runway, 20. On cost grounds it never installed one on 02. Consequently all approaches to 02 had to be offset using navigation aids that were located either side of the runway (VOR to the east, NDB to the west). The intent is that you approach towards the navigation aid, offset at an angle to the runway centreline which intersects the centreline at around 1000 metres from touchdown, by which time you are hopefully below cloud/in sight of the runway. Then make a turn and land.

VOR and NDB based instrument approaches also do not provide real time vertical guidance information to the pilot.

While better than nothing, the offset approach is far from ideal as it gives you minimal time to spot the runway, sometimes seeing it after you are too close to it and having gone through the runway centreline with no option other than to carry out a missed approach, unless you were a Trislander and were slow enough to make a late turn!

To have the highest possible chance of a successful landing in poor weather the runway needs to be directly in front of you when you break cloud or otherwise see it. Without the expense of ground based navigation aids, a RNAV (GNSS) instrument approach procedure enables you do approach in line with the runway. Advances in GPS based technology can now also provide real time vertical guidance to the pilot, as will be available for the first time ever on runway 02, from 1st March.

VOR and NDB based instrument approach procedures use 1950's and 60's technology, far short of what is, and has been for some time, available in the 21st century.
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 16:07
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
stewyb

Until the advent of GPS based procedures, instrument approach procedures were provided by ground based equipment, either radio navigation aids or radar systems.

If you wanted an instrument approach procedure to make an approach in line with the runway you normally had to locate the radio navigation aid in line with the runway (eg, an ILS localiser), or you could locate a VOR or NDB in line with the runway, the latter is often not practicable due to off airport developments.

SOU has an ILS on one runway, 20. On cost grounds it never installed one on 02. Consequently all approaches to 02 had to be offset using navigation aids that were located either side of the runway (VOR to the east, NDB to the west). The intent is that you approach towards the navigation aid, offset at an angle to the runway centreline which intersects the centreline at around 1000 metres from touchdown, by which time you are hopefully below cloud/in sight of the runway. Then make a turn and land.

VOR and NDB based instrument approaches also do not provide real time vertical guidance information to the pilot.

While better than nothing, the offset approach is far from ideal as it gives you minimal time to spot the runway, sometimes seeing it after you are too close to it and having gone through the runway centreline with no option other than to carry out a missed approach, unless you were a Trislander and were slow enough to make a late turn!

To have the highest possible chance of a successful landing in poor weather the runway needs to be directly in front of you when you break cloud or otherwise see it. Without the expense of ground based navigation aids, a RNAV (GNSS) instrument approach procedure enables you do approach in line with the runway. Advances in GPS based technology can now also provide real time vertical guidance to the pilot, as will be available for the first time ever on runway 02, from 1st March.

VOR and NDB based instrument approach procedures use 1950's and 60's technology, far short of what is, and has been for some time, available in the 21st century.
Thanks, great explanation TCAS FAN!! This is obviously a big improvement for the airport and will hopefully attract the likes of EZY to operate more efficiently in to SOU?

Last edited by stewyb; 28th Feb 2018 at 16:34.
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 17:24
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How many operators use RNAV approaches?
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 18:47
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Originally Posted by stewyb
Thanks, great explanation TCAS FAN!! This is obviously a big improvement for the airport and will hopefully attract the likes of EZY to operate more efficiently in to SOU?
TCAS FAN

Assume the Transmissometer installed recently has nothing to do with RNAV but instead is part of the overall airfield upgrade?
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 19:25
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The transmissometers are there as part of the IRVR (instrumented runway visual range) system which is being installed. They're a different upgrade and separate to the GNSS approach which has no associated ground equipment.
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 19:59
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Originally Posted by The Nutts Mutts
The transmissometers are there as part of the IRVR (instrumented runway visual range) system which is being installed. They're a different upgrade and separate to the GNSS approach which has no associated ground equipment.
Much needed airfield investment in visual/approach aids. Any news on runway resurfacing as I thought this was due during 2017/2018?
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 20:26
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
stewyb

Until the advent of GPS based procedures, instrument approach procedures were provided by ground based equipment, either radio navigation aids or radar systems.

If you wanted an instrument approach procedure to make an approach in line with the runway you normally had to locate the radio navigation aid in line with the runway (eg, an ILS localiser), or you could locate a VOR or NDB in line with the runway, the latter is often not practicable due to off airport developments.

SOU has an ILS on one runway, 20. On cost grounds it never installed one on 02. Consequently all approaches to 02 had to be offset using navigation aids that were located either side of the runway (VOR to the east, NDB to the west). The intent is that you approach towards the navigation aid, offset at an angle to the runway centreline which intersects the centreline at around 1000 metres from touchdown, by which time you are hopefully below cloud/in sight of the runway. Then make a turn and land.

VOR and NDB based instrument approaches also do not provide real time vertical guidance information to the pilot.

While better than nothing, the offset approach is far from ideal as it gives you minimal time to spot the runway, sometimes seeing it after you are too close to it and having gone through the runway centreline with no option other than to carry out a missed approach, unless you were a Trislander and were slow enough to make a late turn!

To have the highest possible chance of a successful landing in poor weather the runway needs to be directly in front of you when you break cloud or otherwise see it. Without the expense of ground based navigation aids, a RNAV (GNSS) instrument approach procedure enables you do approach in line with the runway. Advances in GPS based technology can now also provide real time vertical guidance to the pilot, as will be available for the first time ever on runway 02, from 1st March.

VOR and NDB based instrument approach procedures use 1950's and 60's technology, far short of what is, and has been for some time, available in the 21st century.
Great explanation TCAS FAN. Will this have involved any upgrading of the equipment at SOU? If so, this will be further evidence of some much needed airside investment along with the transmissometer. What are other people's thoughts about the timing of this investment relative to the MD leaving? Bit odd he is leaving when investment finally starts materialising.
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