Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Southend-2

Old 14th Aug 2018, 08:35
  #1881 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: East London
Age: 36
Posts: 820
It will be interesting to see what they do. Firstly whether Milan is dropped altogether or whether it will return for summer as it did this year. Also whether Glasgow really is going, and whether they retain the likes of Dubrovnik and Prague at existing frequency.

Consensus seems to be that Dublin will go which is a shame, I actually donít think FR is as good a fit. I think 189 seats arriving back in SEN at 11pm and leaving at 7am will be overkill and without public transport it will suffer the same fate as EZYís attempts with Belfast and Edinburgh. Iíve not used DUB but would assume it also benefits other routes like Antwerp and Groningen, certainly people have been transferring from/to MAN flights Iíve travelled on.

I donít think theyíll go back to regional Irish routes unless they picked up the Derry PSO. There actually are quite a few potential routes they could do though - Inverness, Zurich, Stuttgart, Montpellier, Bergen are examples of destinations not served from STN. There are a few that are served but not at great frequency like Turin. And some popular places that no one does from SEN like Nice and Naples.

AirportPlanner1 is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2018, 12:11
  #1882 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DORSET
Age: 61
Posts: 311
you will all lament the day FR came to SEN..... they will bugger off no sooner than the loads or any subsidies get reduced

the poster above is correct in saying that 3 x 189 pax checking in at SEN at 6am or landing back at 10 or 11pm will be chaotic and no longer will SEN be a pleasure to fly from

sorry to be a pooper but thats my tuppence
rog747 is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2018, 12:36
  #1883 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Essex
Posts: 723
Growth. You're damned if you do and most certainly damned without it.
DC3 Dave is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2018, 12:50
  #1884 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DORSET
Age: 61
Posts: 311
Originally Posted by DC3 Dave View Post
Growth. You're damned if you do and most certainly damned without it.
Indeed Dave, but if you do business with FR then you dine at the devil's table.....
rog747 is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2018, 14:15
  #1885 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: East London
Age: 36
Posts: 820
Originally Posted by rog747 View Post
the poster above is correct in saying that 3 x 189 pax checking in at SEN at 6am or landing back at 10 or 11pm will be chaotic and no longer will SEN be a pleasure to fly from
Er, thatís not at all what I said. I said 189 seats was too much capacity from Dublin arriving/departing without adequate onward transportation based on past experience. Really quite different.
AirportPlanner1 is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2018, 14:45
  #1886 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 719
Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1 View Post


Er, thatís not at all what I said. I said 189 seats was too much capacity from Dublin arriving/departing without adequate onward transportation based on past experience. Really quite different.
Maybe you should contact Ryanair and tell them to cancel their program for next year.
tophat27dt is online now  
Old 14th Aug 2018, 14:55
  #1887 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Daws Heath Essex
Posts: 295
Originally Posted by tophat27dt View Post
Maybe you should contact Ryanair and tell them to cancel their program for next year.
I have noticed in the last few days tower are telling inbounds to hold on the taxiway because there is no ground crew available at their alloted stand. Not enough trained staff?
Planespeaking is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2018, 15:39
  #1888 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DORSET
Age: 61
Posts: 311
I dont get why handling these days seems to be falling apart almost everywhere

at BMA at LHR I was duty officer for many years for Ops Traffic load control and passenger services

we had 50+ flights a day then in and out of LHR
MME GLA EDI BFS LBA LPL IOM BHX and EMA plus handled Brymon for their PLH EXT and NQY flights some with ISC connections

we self handled our pax, check-in, Ops and load control side, and Aer Lingus did our ramp and baggage/cargo handling (basically they put the steps on and unloaded the bags)
British Airways did the coaches for us if we were parked at remote stands

rarely did we see cock ups and delays which we see commonplace now....yes things were done more manual and very hands on then

thank god I am retired LOL
rog747 is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2018, 17:57
  #1889 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 431
@rog747 - if you can see these flaws given your previous roles, what do you think is causing all the inefficiencies in the system today? Is it simply streamlining has cut it back to the bone too much? Incompetence and poor despatcher training and experience of new entrants? What gives, do you think?
mik3bravo is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2018, 19:00
  #1890 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DORSET
Age: 61
Posts: 311
Originally Posted by mik3bravo View Post
@rog747 - if you can see these flaws given your previous roles, what do you think is causing all the inefficiencies in the system today? Is it simply streamlining has cut it back to the bone too much? Incompetence and poor despatcher training and experience of new entrants? What gives, do you think?
yes the whole thing - everything cut to the bone - outsourced and penny pitching - and outsourced to a bunch of untrained minimum wage 'I would rather not be here' folk...not their fault just not mentored not given enthusiasm nor pride

its gives the passenger no pleasure to experience the nonsense the airlines today seem to think is a business model BUT selling fares for £25 is what you see - that i'm afraid also attracts folk that will travel at the cheapest cost who frankly cannot look after themselves at home let alone travel on an aircraft with today's constraints of safety and behaviour -
add that into the mix too -
hence the constant aircraft diversions (almost weekly come daily now for the likes of say BA and possibly Virgin) for disruptive drunk nutcase and/or sick passengers
we NEVER had this in our day....maybe just maybe one medical diversion a year when I was with another holiday charter airline.

Also the most massive constraint to the industry are the issues of security post 9/11 and further incidents which is making the task of running an operation with huge frustrations coupled with insane growth of the Lo-Co and legacy airline market selling flights at unsustainable fares over time swamping airports, as per this discussion

the strain on crews, handling and border controls then meltdown - BUT oh no everyone wants to fly from their local airport to almost anywhere on the planet but at what price ??

anyway rant over - I should lie down with a large gin and tonic on ice and lament of the good old days of flying which I was very proud to have been part of.

back on topic - I will have to pay SEN a visit one day soon - I was from Upminster and we used to go in the 60's and 70's to the airport on a FRI or SAT summer evenings for a meal and a drink to watch all the Channel Airways Viscount all start up and go off on their night charter flights !

BTW
did you know who we can blame certainly in the UK for starting the LO-Co nonsense off in the first place ?
Easy Jet no
Ryanair no

it was Thomson's - yes a package tour operator who suddenly one year decided to dismantle the package and start charging for transfers from the overseas airport to the resort and then charging for meals on board the aircraft -
This PR stunt/move was titled 'Just for You'

so there we have it - Thomson's started the choice of buying what they thought passengers wanted (or not as the case maybe)
Had they left alone and kept prices not so keen - who knows - the likes of air europe dan air bia and monarch may still be here

Last edited by rog747; 14th Aug 2018 at 19:18.
rog747 is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2018, 20:09
  #1891 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Essex
Posts: 25
back on topic - I will have to pay SEN a visit one day soon - I was from Upminster and we used to go in the 60's and 70's to the airport on a FRI or SAT summer evenings for a meal and a drink to watch all the Channel Airways Viscount all start up and go off on their night charter flights !
you really will be surprised. Go up to the bar or restaurant in the Holiday Inn.
Bee Rexit is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2018, 20:41
  #1892 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Southend
Posts: 48
Having passed through the airport today. It was a shambles. Only one girl on the security into the passenger clearance hall, therefore a tail back all the way along the upper level and kids with parents at 6 in the morning crying and getting frustrated. (Staffing!!)
Only 2 security belts working and in sufficient staff to clear passenger.
The staff on duty were doing their best, but with no management support. How will they cope with Ryanair next year??
HeliAl is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2018, 20:48
  #1893 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 719
Originally Posted by HeliAl View Post
Having passed through the airport today. It was a shambles. Only one girl on the security into the passenger clearance hall, therefore a tail back all the way along the upper level and kids with parents at 6 in the morning crying and getting frustrated. (Staffing!!)
Only 2 security belts working and in sufficient staff to clear passenger.
The staff on duty were doing their best, but with no management support. How will they cope with Ryanair next year??
Please write and complain to the airport management.
tophat27dt is online now  
Old 14th Aug 2018, 22:26
  #1894 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 389
Originally Posted by rog747 View Post
yes the whole thing - everything cut to the bone - outsourced and penny pitching - and outsourced to a bunch of untrained minimum wage 'I would rather not be here' folk...not their fault just not mentored not given enthusiasm nor pride

its gives the passenger no pleasure to experience the nonsense the airlines today seem to think is a business model BUT selling fares for £25 is what you see - that i'm afraid also attracts folk that will travel at the cheapest cost who frankly cannot look after themselves at home let alone travel on an aircraft with today's constraints of safety and behaviour -
add that into the mix too -
hence the constant aircraft diversions (almost weekly come daily now for the likes of say BA and possibly Virgin) for disruptive drunk nutcase and/or sick passengers
we NEVER had this in our day....maybe just maybe one medical diversion a year when I was with another holiday charter airline.

Also the most massive constraint to the industry are the issues of security post 9/11 and further incidents which is making the task of running an operation with huge frustrations coupled with insane growth of the Lo-Co and legacy airline market selling flights at unsustainable fares over time swamping airports, as per this discussion

the strain on crews, handling and border controls then meltdown - BUT oh no everyone wants to fly from their local airport to almost anywhere on the planet but at what price ??

anyway rant over - I should lie down with a large gin and tonic on ice and lament of the good old days of flying which I was very proud to have been part of.

back on topic - I will have to pay SEN a visit one day soon - I was from Upminster and we used to go in the 60's and 70's to the airport on a FRI or SAT summer evenings for a meal and a drink to watch all the Channel Airways Viscount all start up and go off on their night charter flights !

BTW
did you know who we can blame certainly in the UK for starting the LO-Co nonsense off in the first place ?
Easy Jet no
Ryanair no

it was Thomson's - yes a package tour operator who suddenly one year decided to dismantle the package and start charging for transfers from the overseas airport to the resort and then charging for meals on board the aircraft -
This PR stunt/move was titled 'Just for You'

so there we have it - Thomson's started the choice of buying what they thought passengers wanted (or not as the case maybe)
Had they left alone and kept prices not so keen - who knows - the likes of air europe dan air bia and monarch may still be here
Sorry to drift the thread again and with respect, but that's not correct. If anything they, Thomson, were just keeping up with the changing market - which is what you have to do to survive, whether we like change or not.. This was actually influenced by the sudden growth of the above mentioned locos. The "Your holiday, Your choice" style concept (which is what it was actually known as at Thomson / Britannia) was brought in earlier with the Airtours/Mytravel group. It was soon almost universally adopted as the package holiday standard. This offer of choice and keeping up with change was further strengthened by the "big" tour operators either starting their own scheduled airlines and services in-house e.g Thomsonfly / Mytravel Lite or pushing on seat-only sales to keep aircraft as full as possible. They saw the change in consumer attitudes and gave what they came to see as the new norm due to the locos - More choice, flexibility and more availability of lower fares. Those expected lower fares had to be paid for from somewhere, hence an industry full of new ancillary charges or lower cost bases (wages). Anyway, sorry, i digress.
Cazza_fly is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2018, 22:48
  #1895 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: London Whipsnade Wildlife Park
Posts: 4,228
Grrr

Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1 View Post
It will be interesting to see what they do. Firstly whether Milan is dropped altogether or whether it will return for summer as it did this year. Also whether Glasgow really is going, and whether they retain the likes of Dubrovnik and Prague at existing frequency.

Consensus seems to be that Dublin will go which is a shame, I actually donít think FR is as good a fit. I think 189 seats arriving back in SEN at 11pm and leaving at 7am will be overkill and without public transport it will suffer the same fate as EZYís attempts with Belfast and Edinburgh. Iíve not used DUB but would assume it also benefits other routes like Antwerp and Groningen, certainly people have been transferring from/to MAN flights Iíve travelled on.

I donít think theyíll go back to regional Irish routes unless they picked up the Derry PSO. There actually are quite a few potential routes they could do though - Inverness, Zurich, Stuttgart, Montpellier, Bergen are examples of destinations not served from STN. There are a few that are served but not at great frequency like Turin. And some popular places that no one does from SEN like Nice and Naples.

Max 200 version 197 seats.
Buster the Bear is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2018, 07:17
  #1896 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: 1 mile north of 26
Posts: 6,629
Originally Posted by HeliAl View Post
Having passed through the airport today. It was a shambles. Only one girl on the security into the passenger clearance hall, therefore a tail back all the way along the upper level and kids with parents at 6 in the morning crying and getting frustrated. (Staffing!!)
Only 2 security belts working and in sufficient staff to clear passenger.
The staff on duty were doing their best, but with no management support. How will they cope with Ryanair next year??
Ryanair will be a turning point where the complaints start to outnumber the praises. Stobart won’t care, as passengers means income, I doubt if the majority here will care either and will demand more and more aircraft and routes.

Do folk here really want a mini me Luton? Where is the line drawn? I saw Southend as maybe an oasis, which I know is not the way to run an asset but it will be a sad day for me if the airport becomes just another place to have a moan about and to avoid.

So come summer 2019 will SEN have enough check-in desks, security lanes, enough seating both airside and landslide and enough baggage belts etc? Will the terminal be going 24 hour? I would have thought staffing levels are easy to fix if Stobart is willing to spend some money but is the terminal ready? I hope it is not going to have to play catch-up while passengers queue to get through the front door.

Strange though that it was only a few months ago that Southend seemed to be somewhat under used and now I am talking about maybe too many passengers but if the terminal is fairly small the tipping point could come quicker than people expect.

As I have yet to visit the new terminal maybe it is a lot bigger than I think. So what is the sqm of the terminal? By way of comparison Luton is now nudging 90,000sqm for a capacity of 18 million although that is pushing it somewhat.

LTNman is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2018, 07:23
  #1897 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 565
Is there enough car parking? On the face of it the airport is pretty tight in terms of spaces... when FR comes in that is going to be essential isn't it?
shamrock7seal is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2018, 07:51
  #1898 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: East London
Age: 36
Posts: 820
I would say that the airport will cope just about OK with the three additional aircraft. Any more than that I would suggest would require further extension.

The chap above mentions only one boarding pass scanner being open but thatís all Iíve ever experienced and my longest queue has still been far shorter than I experience at MAN to give one example. If the second one is open there certainly wonít be a problem.

Iíve only ever seen two x-rays open, there are another two sitting there so thereís some more capacity.

A couple of weeks ago there were quite a few spaces available, they might just about be OK on that front.

Capacity of cafes/bar in the am peak in particular may be a challenge but perhaps that could be mitigated by throwing in a mobile cart or two.

People also talk like all 12 or so aircraft will set off at the same time, in reality they are staggered so the impact is mitigated. Right now for example once the two early EZY, MAN and DUB board between about 6-6:25ish the place really quietens down. This will be the period in which things hot up for the couple of new 7:15ish FR departures.

Another mitigation is Stobart themselves shifting departures back assuming they maintain the current fleet, for example it looks as though the E195 07:30 departure is going back almost an hour from winter.

AirportPlanner1 is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2018, 08:35
  #1899 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Age: 70
Posts: 2,102
I've also never seen more than one boarding pass scanner being used at the entrance to the security hall but the capacity is there to double the throughput as Airport Planner1 says, so I don't see that as a major problem. Likewise there seems plenty of security screening capacity available with normally only 50% of the x-ray machine channels in use in my experience.

Everyone also seems to be forgetting that the extension of both ends of the current terminal has been approved and I expect that to be carried out over the winter. That will increase considerably its footprint and the number of boarding gates and the baggage reclaim capacity. I agree that car parking on-site may become a problem but planning consent exists for turning the old ATEL car park adjacent to the airport entrance into a 260 space valet car parking facility.

There is a great deal that needs doing before next March and I think that might be quite challenging to achieve but I'm sure one of those things will be further efforts to persuade Greater Anglia to provide earlier and later trains. They have always seemed intransigent previously but perhaps a larger carrot will now need to be offered.

Last edited by Expressflight; 15th Aug 2018 at 14:34. Reason: add car park capacity
Expressflight is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2018, 09:25
  #1900 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Age: 70
Posts: 2,102
Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
As I have yet to visit the new terminal maybe it is a lot bigger than I think. So what is the sqm of the terminal? By way of comparison Luton is now nudging 90,000sqm for a capacity of 18 million although that is pushing it somewhat.

The terminal at SEN is currently 11,900sqm and the extension will bring this up to 15,506sqm. The first floor, which comprises the security hall, Skylife lounge, offices etc. will remain at 3,527sqm but the ground floor will increase in size by 43% to 11,979sqm. In effect the existing immigration hall will be incorporated into the departure hall, where additional gates will be opened. The existing baggage reclaim will become the new immigration hall and a new baggage reclaim hall will be added. That's something of an over-simplification but may help in visualising what is planned.
Expressflight is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.