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Sion SIR/LSGS

Old 23rd Jun 2017, 13:08
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The fundamental question to any potential investor will be “what am I investing in?”

They don’t have a unique product, they don’t have an established brand, they don’t have any assets on their balance sheet. So what are they investing in? a website and a slick marketing campaign does not a 4.5m investment make.

Any institutional investor will conclude that they could replicate the whole business model overnight and own 100% of the company - it is after all a ticketing website and a plan. In fact, there’s even the danger that AOC operators themselves could just do it, and why not they are anyway accepting most of the operation risk.

Then there’s the small issue of the industry itself. Notoriously cost driven, price sensitive customers, highly capital intensive, massive cash flow requirements compounded by not getting paid until the ticket is ‘delivered’. Then there’s the competition. Easy are down the road in GVA and Swiss are over in ZRH with everything in place including a European network, Helvetic EJs and Sion qualified crew that could easily lay on a connecting flight in the late afternoon and open up Sion to 10+ destinations with a sub 1 hour connection. Oh, and it doesn’t snow all year either! I could go on, but you get my point.

Out of interest I looked at easy from SEN to GVA next Feb half term week. Ticket, seat, hold bag and ski’s came to £155. POW double.

Their market research is also flawed. Ask any skier if they’d like to land 30 minutes from the slopes and of course they’ll say yes. Ask them if they’ll pay double to save 1.5hr against a GVA transfer will they still say yes?

They might raise the cash, but it won’t be from institutions or HNWI’s it will be from those who don’t know what they’re buying.

Sorry JS32, I know you’re going to press your nay-sayer button again

Last edited by flight_mode; 23rd Jun 2017 at 15:27.
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 17:36
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Hey FM - sorry old chum, but cant say i disagree with much that you are saying, however your comment is very general and sweeping rather than defined, so the only thing I'd say is....... you have to start somewhere and they have a huge amount of support in the Valais so it is going to translate into something, so all we can all do is let the story play out.

Either it will be a small success and survive or it wont, but hat tip to them for at least trying and seemingly making progress to at least get to the start line.. It wont be easy thats for sure, but thats not a guaranteed reason for it to fail.

now wheres that button!!
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 18:29
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Nice JS.

I generalised on purpose. Regarding the support from the Valais I agree there's excitement but thats not where their potential PAX are. Some yes, but the majority no.

Now, who's gonna be the AOC?
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 19:43
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No the outbound are defo from Lausanne and Vaud - who in their right mind would turn left from there and go to GVA - some of the locals I know from Valais view GVA as a different country.. I can tell you the AOC they will not be on

I understand pow are in Valais all next week - I'll be in / out on Mon & Thurs I think so far... I'll have a chat with Michel at Allpark and see what the scoop is
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 20:52
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Originally Posted by Jetscream 32
I can tell you the AOC they will not be on
I'll take 1033 and 1006 off the table. Are you taking PE off?
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 21:11
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I'd say they are prime... but no idea where the second a/c will come from - but there are plenty of 190's around so either that or if they get their own AOC in time then happy days..
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 21:18
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Wasn't 1039 trying to do something replacing the Do328's - but not seen or heard anything - beside's MI will probably need a bypass to get a sense of humour before that airline could do anything radical like working with a start-up...
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 21:54
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1039 + pow? MI wouldn't even accept AMEX cards up until recently! Didn't MI and those on the warmer side of the hills nearly get into fisty cuffs over the Saab?
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Old 25th Jun 2017, 22:02
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1039 + pow ? Powdair flights now for sale on the Skywork website with SX flight codes !
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 06:48
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So no jetliner.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 07:05
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There have been reports on ch-aviation that SkyWork are in negotiations with Embraer concerning fleet their renewal plans.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 07:27
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Im here in Sion now and just spoke to pow who are here also - the SX flights are not powdairs as there is no agreement signed by all accounts - SX appears to be doing something underhand based on their early negotiations with pow, but pow just indicated that the Ejets SX were going to get and still might - have not been confirmed to be on their AOC in time - ex Saudi from AerFin ... pow are not happy.. but not bothered either as they have got another operator it seems! Have to say - decent bunch of people and seem to know their drills - so im not going to be too controversial now as they know my name and face....
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 09:41
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Yes, and on closer inspection they are Powdair routes but not Powdair frequencies and timings.

To summarise, Skywork are offering all the Powdair destinations except Manchester and Edinburgh, and with reduced frequencies on the remainder: - ANR (2), HAM (2), BRS (1), LTN (2), SEN (2), SOU (1). Some of the days clash but the timings appear not to, though I have only looked at a couple.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 12:37
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SX's actions are controversial to say the least
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 13:38
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The slot-situation is controversal. In a Travelnews-articel it is stated that POW has the slots to operate to and from the slot-controlled airports (as far as I know LTN, HAM and MAN within the flights offered by POW?). But POW is not an Airline and will not be able to apply for slots themself and, I assume, SX will not sell the flights without having the slots?
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 22:27
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Strange choice for SX. Reputationally the risk may only be small (but still real and unnecessary). However they are an airline that's previously shown they can't do UK marketing. Surely the only way they could do routes like this (with likely no outband pax from Sion at all) would be as a FlyBe franchise?
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Old 27th Jun 2017, 10:54
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Although the SkyWork Sion destinations appear on the drop down menu there is no announcement of these new routes on their website - or anywhere else for that matter so far as I can see..

They certainly appear to be bookable, though I am not going to waste my time going through the motions of a trial booking. Prices appear to be £25-35 cheaper than the lowest Powdair fare, but Powdair allow free skis and snowboards whereas SX charge £48 for sporting equipment.

Last edited by Tagron; 27th Jun 2017 at 16:55. Reason: spelling
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Old 27th Jun 2017, 15:52
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What are they doing launching routes with no announcements in the press, on their site or from destination airports? Despite JS32's latest info from Sion I wonder if there is an agreement, perhaps still in the making between POW and SX. If not, I'm lost as to what SX are up to.
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Old 27th Jun 2017, 16:05
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From travelnews.ch
Max Ungricht, Skywork's press spokesman, explains: "There is no contractual relationship with Powdair. By connecting the routes from Sion, Skywork is exploring the market. Skywork CEO Martin Inabnit, also contacted by Travelnews.ch, also said: "As Powdair does not have an AOC, it is a classic ACMI deal [a wet-lease, editors note.] and not at all possible. In addition, Powdair is required to publish the operating carrier in accordance with applicable law, if there was one. But there is not Skywork.
So Skywork are going it alone on POWs routes, calling them out publically for not publishing the operating carrier on booking and saying an ACMI deal is "gar nicht möglich".

Ouch! I bet POW are miffed.

Updated with Powdair statement:
"I can confirm that Powdair and Skywork are in negotiations," Clarifies Stewart, but explains “nothing is agreed yet and we are in negotiation with several partners. Regarding the intrusion of flights by Skywork we knew nothing. Possibly, this is a negotiating tactic" According to him, the flight times and slots were secured for Powdair, contrary to what Skywork claimed.

Last edited by flight_mode; 27th Jun 2017 at 16:25. Reason: added pow statement
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Old 27th Jun 2017, 16:08
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I've just received a regular SkyWork e-mail update headed "Winter schedule details now available!" and there's no mention of Sion flights. No timetable is available when you select Sion from a linked drop down list of destinations.
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