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Old 20th Mar 2015, 21:34
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CX MAN to HKG

CX today announced the cancellation of its 3x/week service from Hong Kong to Moscow effective June '15. Any rumours that the aircraft will be re-deployed to make HKG/MAN daily as current LF to MAN seem comparable to those to LHR?
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Old 20th Mar 2015, 22:37
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/r...nsport-set-out

Haven't got time to look/comment on this at the minute but on the face of it !

We seem to have one party "with a plan" but seemingly no money ?

and another party with .........................well who actually knows !
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Old 20th Mar 2015, 22:39
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Does anybody on here know what the reason for missed approach on fr559 tonight, landed later with airport fire services on sby?
The fire service were doing an exercise, nothing more.


I was on that FR559 flight, didn't know it was a near miss! Saw the fire engine driving away, how close were we really to an accident??
And the above is exactly why one needs to be carefull with trying to make 1+1 = 11. A go around is a standard procedure, and the fire service are out driving around pretty much every day for various reasons. Sometimes the two will co-incide. It doesn't mean the world is about to end


CX today announced the cancellation of its 3x/week service from Hong Kong to Moscow effective June '15. Any rumours that the aircraft will be re-deployed to make HKG/MAN daily as current LF to MAN seem comparable to those to LHR?
A daily would be a very good development considering the route has only been in place for a short while. That being said, I suppose we should wait for an actual announcement before celebrating.

On that note, I'm also noticing that on the chinese front Hainain seems to have gone quiet again, so no surprises there then.
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Old 20th Mar 2015, 23:44
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howard h / All,

Further to informed replies by Ian Brooks and others, note that FR24 loses tracking on MLAT aircraft at low levels. Such aircraft include many commuter types and executive jets. However, when tracking is lost the blips often tend to freeze on screen for a couple of minutes before they finally disappear off completely. If you follow FR24 regularly, you will often notice blips such as those representing FlyBe flights freeze at about six miles out on the Manchester ILS. Mode-S tracked airliners following in sequence can frequently be observed to catch up and even 'overtake' the frozen blip on screen. But none of this actually represents real life ... the FlyBe will actually land as normal with a standard gap behind in reality. Remember that FR24 is a brilliant and fun internet innovation, but it is very far from being an accurately calibrated approach radar. A frozen MLAT blip on FR24 in no way represents some wild 'near-death experience' in the real world.
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Old 21st Mar 2015, 16:10
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Cool

Originally Posted by FFHKG
CX today announced the cancellation of its 3x/week service from Hong Kong to Moscow effective June '15. Any rumours that the aircraft will be re-deployed to make HKG/MAN daily as current LF to MAN seem comparable to those to LHR?
No it will not, as previously stated, Zurich, Dusseldorf and Boston all start soon, Sydney will be getting a second daily 777, next summers schedule shows the same 4 days of operation. Maybe once the route is established and a consistent load factor is there an increase will be looked at, until such time, we are told, then there will be no increase in flts. There are 3 or 4 more 777's to be delivered this year then nothing until the 350 starts in 2016. So equipment is limited,
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Old 21st Mar 2015, 21:18
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Singapore airlines

Reported elsewhere, Singapore Airlines Is to change its Singapore-Moscow-Houston service to Manchester where it will be Singapore-manchester-Houston
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Old 21st Mar 2015, 22:44
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If this is true it will be fantastic. This was rumoured some years back but the flight continued to operate via Moscow.

It will also give MAN-SIN a non stop flight which is what was required.

I hope you are right Sarah
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Old 21st Mar 2015, 23:07
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Yes it would be good news if true.

Apart from restoring a nonstop to SIN, it would also give MAN a direct service into Star's hub at IAH (assuming SQ had traffic rights MAN-IAH). I wonder if UA would codeshare on the MAN-IAH leg ?

Due to the Russian economy/sanctions more than a dozen airlines have recently pulled or reduced service to Moscow, most recently Cathay who are dropping it altogether from June. So if the SQ rumour is true MOW's loss would be MAN's gain.
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 00:27
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FR24

Originally Posted by Shed-on-a-Pole
howard h / All,

Further to informed replies by Ian Brooks and others, note that FR24 loses tracking on MLAT aircraft at low levels. Such aircraft include many commuter types and executive jets. However, when tracking is lost the blips often tend to freeze on screen for a couple of minutes before they finally disappear off completely. If you follow FR24 regularly, you will often notice blips such as those representing FlyBe flights freeze at about six miles out on the Manchester ILS. Mode-S tracked airliners following in sequence can frequently be observed to catch up and even 'overtake' the frozen blip on screen. But none of this actually represents real life ... the FlyBe will actually land as normal with a standard gap behind in reality. Remember that FR24 is a brilliant and fun internet innovation, but it is very far from being an accurately calibrated approach radar. A frozen MLAT blip on FR24 in no way represents some wild 'near-death experience' in the real world.
Ian Brooks and Shed-on-a-Pole, thanks for your response, I've certainly learned something there. Do you know why some military flights appear but not others? Sorry if it is a bit off topic but it would be interesting to know. Thanks, DomyDom
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 07:36
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Reported elsewhere, Singapore Airlines Is to change its Singapore-Moscow-Houston service to Manchester where it will be Singapore-manchester-Houston
Is this a genuine rumour or is it more like wishful thinking - rather like CX dropping Moscow and hoping those flights would come to MAN?

I see that SQ61/62 operates 5 x weekly to IAH via Moscow rather than daily but it would be nice if it did happen. Interesting point logohu mentions about traffic rights MAN-IAH.
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 07:52
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SIA

We may be getting a bit ahead of ourselves here as I am not aware of the source for these rumours but just in case it has legs and Alice has indeed relocated from Wonderland. (see below)

Those not interested in the "science of bilaterals" should look away now.

When discussing bilats I always feel the need to dust down my link to a CAA study from 2004 using non other than SIA (and Emirates ) albeit to Houston (EK) and Washington (SIA), this provides examples of the pros (of which there are many) and cons (of which there are not) of granting such rights to Manchester.

https://www.caa.co.uk/docs/589/Regio...ths_report.pdf

"This would enable airlines such as Emirates or SIA to compete for some of the traffic travelling, for example, between Manchester and the US."

" a move to a presumption that fifth-freedom proposals be granted when requested unless there are demonstrable and significant reasons not to do so."


Fairly clear cut, grant the rights and if a UK airline wishes to compete "from Manchester" they are free to do so "from Manchester",
job done !

hmmmm, why do I have this nagging feeling that it may not be that simple
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 08:30
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Because of the "bi" bit of "bilateral" - just cos the CAA agree, the Americans might not?
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 09:54
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The comment rather than report on Facebook, said someone had heard so it is by no mean definite about IAH, however it also says it is a possible as SQ hold 5th freedom rights already.
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 10:03
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Note the poster who started this story on here is the one that started the Hainan thing a few weeks ago.....

Anyway, if it is true

"This would enable airlines such as Emirates or SIA to compete for some of the traffic travelling, for example, between Manchester and the US."

" a move to a presumption that fifth-freedom proposals be granted when requested unless there are demonstrable and significant reasons not to do so."
Does anyone know if this is still Government policy 10 years later?

Fairly clear cut, grant the rights and if a UK airline wishes to compete "from Manchester" they are free to do so "from Manchester",
job done !

hmmmm, why do I have this nagging feeling that it may not be that simple
You have a nagging feeling which I suspect is right as at the time it was hard work and anything from simple.

Because of the "bi" bit of "bilateral" - just cos the CAA agree, the Americans might not?
Doesn't matter about the CAA - just as likely to get a UK airline popping up with "demonstrable and significant reasons not to do so". Doesn't mean that DfT have to agree with them, but it all takes time. And this is why it is vital that MAG are fully connected into this process.

And of course the US is the land of free trade....
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 10:08
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Originally Posted by Suzeman

And of course the US is the land of free trade....
Norwegian might disagree with that
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 21:19
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Reported elsewhere, Singapore Airlines Is to change its Singapore-Moscow-Houston service to Manchester where it will be Singapore-manchester-Houston
Same source as the imminent Hainan announcement...?


I thought the SIN - SVO- IAH was all about moving oil execs and related trade people. How does MAN qualify even remotely on that score?

Sounds like whimsical wishful let's spread a rumour thinking and PPRuNe really shouldn't be a place for it.
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 22:45
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Same source as the imminent Hainan announcement...?
Yes mentioned that in my previous post.

I thought the SIN - SVO- IAH was all about moving oil execs and related trade people. How does MAN qualify even remotely on that score?
Perhaps it will be a stop for all those potential frackers in oil and gas that we have wanting to start in the NW??

Sounds like whimsical wishful let's spread a rumour thinking and PPRuNe really shouldn't be a place for it.
I agree but then this is rumour network...

Last edited by Suzeman; 24th Mar 2015 at 19:09.
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 10:10
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Maybe SQ's LF on SIN/Moscow has declined to the point where that sector and the subsequent one to Houston are no longer financially viable - can't see a great deal of freight being carried on either sector to make up the shortfall. And let's not forget that CX have just announced that they are shortly stopping their HKG - Moscow services. With the low oil prices and the mess that the Soviet economy is in, the oil business is currently declining - just look at the problem that this is causing for Aberdeen and for Scotland's revenue from oil.

SQ are usually fairly nimble in switching aircraft to routes that generate revenue so perhaps the rumours are not entirely unfounded
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 10:28
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SQ already do SIN-FRA-JFK. There would need to be a good reason for them not to put the IAH flight through FRA too.

Also, I wonder what the average % of pax on the current flight when it departs MUC for SIN originated in MAN? And what % on the SVO-SIN leg originated in IAH. If the MAN % is higher than the IAH %, then SQ could drive up prices for higher yields as there will be less seats available perhaps.

If SQ pull the SVO leg, and if anybody can come up with good reasons why they wouldn't put the route through FRA, or CDG etc and interline with Star alliance partners, then I'll think this one has legs. As things stand I'm a bit skeptical.

Last edited by Una Due Tfc; 23rd Mar 2015 at 12:42.
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 10:54
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the 1st leg of a route is nearly always the most profitable sector (not always) however MAN is providing a very high of pax level and cargo also
putting SQ through Manchester could be more important and don`t forget
Manchester is quite important for Star as well
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