MANCHESTER 1
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I dont care what the MEN puts to be honest, it's not exactly the most watertight source of facts at the best of times. It's also, for me, got nothing to do with 'being realistic'. I don't understand what there is to be 'unrealistic' about with these new routes?
And you are probably not old enough to remember how BEA/BOAC and then BA treated MAN in the past. Whilst I have no problem with them opening and closing routes as you would expect any airline to do responding to the commercial market, they also actively tried to prevent many other airlines from operating to MAN who saw the gaps in the market.
And as I said at the end, this announcement is a win win for everyone.
Join Date: Jan 2013
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I do remember the 'old' BA but it isn't the 'old' BA anyomore so people just have to move with the times.
To me it just seemed like the post was aimed at being 'they are only doing it because they have nowt better to do', which as stated, isn't really the case for MAN specifically, and as you state, this is a win win for all involved.
No need for scepticism, no MAN routes have been culled to make way for these routes, so it's all positive. Whether it turns into a 'BA Renaissance' or not is irrelevant, we are purely celebrating the routes we have for this summer.
To me it just seemed like the post was aimed at being 'they are only doing it because they have nowt better to do', which as stated, isn't really the case for MAN specifically, and as you state, this is a win win for all involved.
No need for scepticism, no MAN routes have been culled to make way for these routes, so it's all positive. Whether it turns into a 'BA Renaissance' or not is irrelevant, we are purely celebrating the routes we have for this summer.
Join Date: Feb 2016
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“I’ll give you the same answer I have given my staff, and the answer is “not yet.” We are serving Manchester. We have an inherent interest in the city of Manchester because we have a pretty large call centre there and we have a fairly large number of Executive Club members from the Manchester area who are coming to Heathrow to fly to a number of places, so while I wouldn’t rule it out, at this particular time there are no plans to do so at the moment.
“We will continue to monitor what opportunities surface, however. UK carriers’ Manchester propositions are mostly leisure from Manchester – Las Vegas, Florida, etc. Otherwise Manchester is being connected by non-British carriers coming in from the US or the Gulf. So how would BA fit in with that when BA is not strictly a leisure carrier? I don’t know. It’s not entirely out of the radar but it’s not in the immediate radar.”
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With regard to the "new" BA, probably worth reminding ourselves of Alex Cruz's words from March of last year, when asked about BA considering long haul flying from MAN:
“I’ll give you the same answer I have given my staff, and the answer is “not yet.” We are serving Manchester. We have an inherent interest in the city of Manchester because we have a pretty large call centre there and we have a fairly large number of Executive Club members from the Manchester area who are coming to Heathrow to fly to a number of places, so while I wouldn’t rule it out, at this particular time there are no plans to do so at the moment.
“We will continue to monitor what opportunities surface, however. UK carriers’ Manchester propositions are mostly leisure from Manchester – Las Vegas, Florida, etc. Otherwise Manchester is being connected by non-British carriers coming in from the US or the Gulf. So how would BA fit in with that when BA is not strictly a leisure carrier? I don’t know. It’s not entirely out of the radar but it’s not in the immediate radar.”
“I’ll give you the same answer I have given my staff, and the answer is “not yet.” We are serving Manchester. We have an inherent interest in the city of Manchester because we have a pretty large call centre there and we have a fairly large number of Executive Club members from the Manchester area who are coming to Heathrow to fly to a number of places, so while I wouldn’t rule it out, at this particular time there are no plans to do so at the moment.
“We will continue to monitor what opportunities surface, however. UK carriers’ Manchester propositions are mostly leisure from Manchester – Las Vegas, Florida, etc. Otherwise Manchester is being connected by non-British carriers coming in from the US or the Gulf. So how would BA fit in with that when BA is not strictly a leisure carrier? I don’t know. It’s not entirely out of the radar but it’s not in the immediate radar.”
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Vueling starting to load W17.
All 5 routes continue, the only difference is BCN loaded at 4 weekly (versus 5 weekly last winter but also is A321 versus A320 last winter). AMS remains 6 weekly, meaning it will be the highest capacity route over the winter for Vueling.
All 5 routes continue, the only difference is BCN loaded at 4 weekly (versus 5 weekly last winter but also is A321 versus A320 last winter). AMS remains 6 weekly, meaning it will be the highest capacity route over the winter for Vueling.
Join Date: Feb 2016
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AF1 to Manchester
Could Donald Trump be heading to Manchester? - Manchester Evening News
Hmmm #awkward
Could Donald Trump be heading to Manchester? - Manchester Evening News
Hmmm #awkward
Chinese president at MAN to announce PEK.
US president at MAN to announce USPC... (I'm kidding btw).
And you are probably not old enough to remember how BEA/BOAC and then BA treated MAN in the past. Whilst I have no problem with them opening and closing routes as you would expect any airline to do responding to the commercial market, they also actively tried to prevent many other airlines from operating to MAN who saw the gaps in the market.
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Amazon at MAN
Hi guys, out of curiosity, with a new Amazon warehouse now just across the road from the airport. Is it feesable when Amazon Air goes international, that we could see their aircraft into Manchester?
I remember EI having a scissors hub at MAN back in the early 90s with B737s operating. Pre EU open skies, did BA manage to lobby them out?
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Would be a degree of novelty, but pity anyone travelling at the time. Was on a flight into Amsterdam a few years ago and spent a large proportion of the journey flying round in circles over the North Sea as US security demanded that all airport operations were stopped for 30 minutes while Obama landed on AF1 and then departed by helicopter.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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In the 70's I travelled the MAN-CPH route every other week for just over 6 months.
The choice of carriers were BA with 732's and later 1-11 500's, EI with 1-11 200's and SK with DC9 300's. My personal preference was the EI flight purely due to their superior catering. The EI and SK flights originated in DUB whilst the BA flight was MAN based.
Most strangely both EI and SK pulled off the route at the same time although SK later returned. This cannot have been because they were losing shedloads of money as all three services were well patronised and the airfares were not exactly cheap on this business biased service.
The choice of carriers were BA with 732's and later 1-11 500's, EI with 1-11 200's and SK with DC9 300's. My personal preference was the EI flight purely due to their superior catering. The EI and SK flights originated in DUB whilst the BA flight was MAN based.
Most strangely both EI and SK pulled off the route at the same time although SK later returned. This cannot have been because they were losing shedloads of money as all three services were well patronised and the airfares were not exactly cheap on this business biased service.
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Aer Lingus operated via Manchester from the 50s through to the early 70s in the pooling environment where revenues and timetabling were shared across much/most/all the European flag carriers.
These arrangements were to come to an end when around 1983 due to EEC competition laws.
Around the early nineties they had another go of fifth/sixth freedom operations via Manchester to Hamburg/Zurich/Paris/Milan/Copenhagen and another German port . They also flew Bristol- Brussels -These were commercial operations however didn't last long.
Money makers they weren't
Aer Lingus have also operated briefly a daily A333 service to New York JFK but can't remember the time frame.
TSR3 SAS have operated the Manchester- Copenhagen leg continuously since 1968 with Caravelle and DC9 through the MD80 to the A320 and Canadajets today.
By the way the SAS DC-9s were usually model 40s slightly longer than the series 30 and very rarely the stubby series 20. Only series 30s SAS operated and they visited Manchester regularly were two Freighters.
In fact they went daily except Saturday when pooling ended and the Dublin tag disappeared.
Interestingly Sterling also operated on the Copenhagen- Manchester- Dublin sector with a Caravelle on summer Wednesday and Saturdays in the early seventies as well.
These arrangements were to come to an end when around 1983 due to EEC competition laws.
Around the early nineties they had another go of fifth/sixth freedom operations via Manchester to Hamburg/Zurich/Paris/Milan/Copenhagen and another German port . They also flew Bristol- Brussels -These were commercial operations however didn't last long.
Money makers they weren't
Aer Lingus have also operated briefly a daily A333 service to New York JFK but can't remember the time frame.
TSR3 SAS have operated the Manchester- Copenhagen leg continuously since 1968 with Caravelle and DC9 through the MD80 to the A320 and Canadajets today.
By the way the SAS DC-9s were usually model 40s slightly longer than the series 30 and very rarely the stubby series 20. Only series 30s SAS operated and they visited Manchester regularly were two Freighters.
In fact they went daily except Saturday when pooling ended and the Dublin tag disappeared.
Interestingly Sterling also operated on the Copenhagen- Manchester- Dublin sector with a Caravelle on summer Wednesday and Saturdays in the early seventies as well.
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TSR2
Hosties were better on SK, though I am biased, as went out with one for two years after meeting on that flight. Sadly at the time lost her to a SK F/O but it was a long time ago !
Happy Memories
Regards
Mr Mac
Hosties were better on SK, though I am biased, as went out with one for two years after meeting on that flight. Sadly at the time lost her to a SK F/O but it was a long time ago !
Happy Memories
Regards
Mr Mac
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Aer Lingus operated via Manchester from the 50s through to the early 70s in the pooling environment where revenues and timetabling were shared across much/most/all the European flag carriers.
These arrangements were to come to an end when around 1983 due to EEC competition laws.
These arrangements were to come to an end when around 1983 due to EEC competition laws.
Here is a link to a debate in the Irish Parliament in 1972...
Dáil Éireann - 12/Dec/1972 Ceisteanna?Questions. Oral Answers. - Aer Lingus Service.
Tuesday, 12 December 1972
Mr. O.J. Flanagan: asked the Minister for Transport and Power if he will make a statement in regard to the phasing out of the Aer Lingus European service via Manchester.
Mr. B. Lenihan: I would refer the Deputy to the Press release issued by the Government Information Bureau on my behalf of the 2nd December, copy of which as been placed in the Library.
The basic purpose of the air agreement is the attainment of parity of operations between the airlines of the two countries on routes between the two countries. The balance of operations has been substantially in favour [1149] of Aer Lingus and the UK authorities sought consultations in the matter in July last in accordance with the provisions for review in the agreement.
In the talks which followed in September and December the UK authorities sought to have the balance redressed and, in particular, pressed for the elimination of the fifth freedom services between Manchester and the Continent which they held to be in conflict with the terms of the agreement. The agreement provides that in the operation of services the primary objective is the provision of capacity adequate to cater for the traffic between the two countries and that in the case of fifth freedom services capacity should be related to (a) traffic requirements to and from this country, (b) the traffic requirements of the area through which the airline passes after taking account of the air services of the airlines of the States comprising the area and (c) the requirements of through airline operations.
The UK authorities pointed to the fact that on many of the routes the Aer Lingus fifth freedom traffic exceeded that carried between Dublin and Manchester or between Dublin and the points served on the Continent and that British and continental airlines are in a position to provide all the capacity required between Manchester and the Continent. It would be uneconomic for Aer Lingus to operate these services at a reduced capacity, even if this course were acceptable to the UK authorities. An understanding was reached on the basis that the present Aer Lingus third and fourth freedom services between the UK and Ireland would continue and that their fifth freedom services at Manchester would be phased out over a period of years ending in 1978.
Mr. O.J. Flanagan: asked the Minister for Transport and Power if he will make a statement in regard to the phasing out of the Aer Lingus European service via Manchester.
Mr. B. Lenihan: I would refer the Deputy to the Press release issued by the Government Information Bureau on my behalf of the 2nd December, copy of which as been placed in the Library.
The basic purpose of the air agreement is the attainment of parity of operations between the airlines of the two countries on routes between the two countries. The balance of operations has been substantially in favour [1149] of Aer Lingus and the UK authorities sought consultations in the matter in July last in accordance with the provisions for review in the agreement.
In the talks which followed in September and December the UK authorities sought to have the balance redressed and, in particular, pressed for the elimination of the fifth freedom services between Manchester and the Continent which they held to be in conflict with the terms of the agreement. The agreement provides that in the operation of services the primary objective is the provision of capacity adequate to cater for the traffic between the two countries and that in the case of fifth freedom services capacity should be related to (a) traffic requirements to and from this country, (b) the traffic requirements of the area through which the airline passes after taking account of the air services of the airlines of the States comprising the area and (c) the requirements of through airline operations.
The UK authorities pointed to the fact that on many of the routes the Aer Lingus fifth freedom traffic exceeded that carried between Dublin and Manchester or between Dublin and the points served on the Continent and that British and continental airlines are in a position to provide all the capacity required between Manchester and the Continent. It would be uneconomic for Aer Lingus to operate these services at a reduced capacity, even if this course were acceptable to the UK authorities. An understanding was reached on the basis that the present Aer Lingus third and fourth freedom services between the UK and Ireland would continue and that their fifth freedom services at Manchester would be phased out over a period of years ending in 1978.
The mid 90s attempt by EI was done under the third EU aviation package which introduced what was effectively open market access across the EU and those other states signed up to the aviation package. Arguably one of the few good bits of legislation to come out of Europe
Regulation 2408/92/EC (the Route Access Regulation) set out the rules on access for Community air carriers to intra-Community air routes. From 1 January 1993 airlines would have full access to all routes between Member States and the right to offer services between airports in two other Member States, the so-called seventh freedom of the air. Full, unrestricted access to all routes within the Community commenced on 1 April 1997 for both scheduled and charter services, the eighth freedom of the air (also called ‘consecutive cabotage’).
This of course laid the foundations for the market we have today and promoted the rise of the low cost airlines.
Join Date: Jan 2013
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Shaheen Air pulling MAN flights from 15th Feb.
They had an incident in January where one of the engines was deemed unsafe, so not sure if it's linked to that?
Shame, they were doing well load wise.
They had an incident in January where one of the engines was deemed unsafe, so not sure if it's linked to that?
Shame, they were doing well load wise.