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Old 19th Dec 2015, 09:42
  #3921 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Originally Posted by Bagso View Post
If we are talking investment in transport infastructure I draw readers attention to the headline in last night's evening standard!

Revealed: 560m plans to overhaul Bank station | Transport | News | London Evening Standard

My goodness are they putting in gold plated urinals !

That's right this is just one underground station and an equivalent indirect taxpayer spend of over half the private money that Manchester is raising to get T2 over the line !
The third busiest station on the underground network handling 52 million passengers a year. Adding a fourth platform, to an underground station whilst keeping all four lines operational is a phenomenally complex operation. Complex = costly. By contrast the work at MAN is relatively simple. Also, to be clear the billion price tag is misleading as only 600m of it is actually construction cost.
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Old 19th Dec 2015, 10:21
  #3922 (permalink)  
 
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Well Andy, you seem to enjoy down-playing MAN'S achievements and criticising whenever possible, so is the other 400m a figment of the imagination or what does it refer to?
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Old 19th Dec 2015, 10:26
  #3923 (permalink)  
 
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Well, guys, the National Infrastructure Commission (chair Lord Adonis) is seeking submissions on Northern Connectivity including specific questions on international. Since it is often said here that the north/south balance is wrong, this is your opportunity to say what you would like to see happen. Closing date January 8.
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Old 19th Dec 2015, 11:19
  #3924 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MANFOD View Post
Well Andy, you seem to enjoy down-playing MAN'S achievements and criticising whenever possible, so is the other 400m a figment of the imagination or what does it refer to?
No, putting Bagso's comments into context. That's the figure that MAG themselves put in the notice when they were seeking the design team for the job. The balance I suspect is (amongst other things) design fees, allowances for contingency, contractors profit, S.106 contributions, writing off the book value of T1, and a little bit of spin.

I am as keen for the north to have a long haul hub that is fit for purpose as anyone. Just because I might bring a dose of reality to the conversation doesn't mean I necessarily disagree with the underlying sentiment!
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Old 19th Dec 2015, 11:49
  #3925 (permalink)  
 
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So you mean just like any other building project
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Old 19th Dec 2015, 12:00
  #3926 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chaps1954 View Post
So you mean just like any other building project
Absolutely Chaps, but some people think the "billion" being spent on MAN will all translate as a physical output (in which case they will be disappointed), while a hugely technical engineering project in London is expensive so must be gold plated.
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Old 19th Dec 2015, 14:09
  #3927 (permalink)  
 
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Well, guys, the National Infrastructure Commission (chair Lord Adonis) is seeking submissions on Northern Connectivity including specific questions on international.
Thankyou for drawing attention to this, anothertyke. I look forward to putting an idea or two forward for consideration by Lord Adonis' commission. I was always very impressed by this guy during his brief tenure as Minister of State for Transport and later Secretary of State for Transport over a period spanning just 20 months or so. It is telling that the subsequent Con/LD administration ran with so many of his innovations rather than casting them aside. If anyone can bring some positive progress to UK transport infrastructure planning, I'd back Andrew Adonis to deliver.

On a day when our hot topic of discussion is the cost of a London Underground Station upgrade, I am encouraged that the item at the top of my state infrastructure shopping-list may not be so unattainable after all. That is, the Manchester Airport Western rail-link, opening up access to Chester, Wales, The Wirral and possibly offering alternative access to Merseyside generally. I had feared that the mooted 500M cost of this project would see it sidelined in perpetuity. But, if 560M is good for Bank Station, then why not 500M to give Cheshire and North Wales state-of-the-art connectivity to the world via Manchester Airport? That will be my own key proposal for the Committee's consideration.

However, another issue which could be indirectly addressed by this - if Manchester Airport Station were to be enabled for through-trains continuing westwards - would be the release of further paths on the existing access route. Note how cities such as Hull have bemoaned their inability to secure direct access to Manchester Airport due to lack of paths on the final part of the journey. The priority given by councils in both North Wales and Humberside demonstrate how important direct rail access to MAN's intercontinental network of air services is deemed to be by local government. If 560M for Bank Underground can be justified, 500M for this certainly must be.

My other proposals for NW infrastructure innovation would not be directly airport-related, so do not merit in-depth discussion on this particular forum. However, briefly, these would include a transpennine motorway linking Sheffield with points west; progressing the already-planned NPR rail corridor [re-branded from HS3]; full integration of public transport ticketing [being progressed]; replacing Liverpool Lime St with a new unrestricted terminus; incorporating within [existing] proposals to upgrade Manchester Piccadilly Station a proper centralised bus interchange for Manchester City Centre. Very few cities of Manchester's size lack a focal-point bus station. Random bus termini strewn around every available side-street in Central Manchester is one of the city's least appealing features. And prospective users don't know where the heck their buses are! Buses have become the forgotten link in Greater Manchester, but many travellers still depend on them. Time to redress their 'Cinderella' status.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 07:13
  #3928 (permalink)  
 
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My goodness British Airways are having a sale?

Amazingly the "direct" Manchester - New York flights are showing as part of the sale with American Airlines in amongst the hourly flights ex London.

Unless you are familiar with AA its actually somewhat difficult to find but at least it's there!

"......joy to the World"
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 09:54
  #3929 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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I see that Jet Airways have merely shifted their Brussels op 100 miles north to Amsterdam.

Manchester was rumoured to be in the mix at some point.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 21:25
  #3930 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Reported elsewhere that QATAR increasing to 3 flights daily on Saturday's & Monday's from next May using a Dreamliner on these flights.

SQ also introducing Premium Economy on flights from MAN

Last edited by FFHKG; 21st Dec 2015 at 21:48.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 21:28
  #3931 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks, Bagso.

I think I contradicted myself by saying that MAN was excellent value for money when in fact it has not cost any money, not since 1938, anyway.

The UK flag carrier has around 3% of the slots at MAN.
Ringway was municipally owned for many years was it not? Ratepayers are taxpayers too.



Turkey is not in Europe, and we don't need to start consider it being in Europe
Correct, Turkey is in the Middle East.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 21:42
  #3932 (permalink)  
 
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Ringway was municipally owned for many years was it not? Ratepayers are taxpayers too.
But keep in mind that MAN has a long history of paying dividends to its council owners which in turn subsidise the rates.

Correct, Turkey is in the Middle East.
Europe is a continent, the Middle East is a region. Approximately 3% of Turkey is in Europe, 97% in Asia. Istanbul straddles both continents across the Bosphorus, but the main airport - Istanbul Ataturk - is located on the European side of the city.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 23:12
  #3933 (permalink)  
 
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FairdealFrank, as Manchester Airport has a 77 year history during which, apart from 1939-1945 when it contributed massively to the war effort, it has always paid a dividend to the councils of Manchester, then Greater Manchester and now the constituent metropolitan boroughs, therefore helping to reduce the rates/council tax to be levied I, and no doubt many others here who are better informed than you, am left wondering just what point you are trying to make.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 23:51
  #3934 (permalink)  
 
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Instead of paying dividends (or reduced ones) it should of been reinvested in the airport to a degree. These so called State operators around Europe don't always pay dividends if they are investing in hence why facilities are 10 times better and they are able to cope with growth.

You can't have your cake and eat it which MAG are trying to achieve at MAN.

As for the airport charges comment, completely un true, if MAN raised charges 40% tomorrow bar maybe Ryanair not a single carrier would leave the airport. MAG have plenty to invest in STN but giving nothing to MAN.

It's up to individal councils to decide budgets to raise x amount of money, they have become to used to relaying on MAG payouts who will unlikely change.

Do you want a improved airport or lower council tax/rates?
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 07:13
  #3935 (permalink)  
 
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j636 Don`t think most would stay if they raised the rates by 40%
All the low cost plus all the marginal opertators would be off in a flash
if the charges meant the difference between profit and loss

Ian
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 09:20
  #3936 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Not sure if these have been mentioned before as it is getting a bit
difficult to keep up with

Monarch announces Lisbon and Madrid as new destinations


Ian
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 09:30
  #3937 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Three airlines on MAN-LIS.....really? All it will do is trash yields for all of them.
They will struggle to beat TAP who are usually cheaper than Ryanair and (a big and) TAP let you check your bag in for free. TAP also have the frequency and the Star * points as well. No-brainer for me.
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 09:49
  #3938 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by j636 View Post
Instead of paying dividends (or reduced ones) it should of been reinvested in the airport to a degree. These so called State operators around Europe don't always pay dividends if they are investing in hence why facilities are 10 times better and they are able to cope with growth.

You can't have your cake and eat it which MAG are trying to achieve at MAN.

As for the airport charges comment, completely un true, if MAN raised charges 40% tomorrow bar maybe Ryanair not a single carrier would leave the airport. MAG have plenty to invest in STN but giving nothing to MAN.

It's up to individal councils to decide budgets to raise x amount of money, they have become to used to relaying on MAG payouts who will unlikely change.

Do you want a improved airport or lower council tax/rates?
The airport was set up to provide both air services and a profit for Manchester City Council. During its ownership, the airport's infrastructure was developed and money put into the council coffers. Under GMC the same applied. Under the current ownership structure the profits are divided after setting aside money for investment in infrastructure. There isn't a single council that "relies" on the airport for income. They can't as their dividend varies. The income is a bonus to their council tax calculation.

MAG has a portfolio of airports and as a company will spread its expenditure as required to maintain and increase business. Whilst there is a good deal to criticise regarding the terminals at Manchester, there has been no lack of investment in other areas of the airport and the development plans will address future needs, regardless of the prognostications of the naysayers here which are based on individual, non-professional interpretations of disclosed plans.

No high profile business is going to invest massive amounts in demolition and rebuilding with a great deal of disruption along the way without the outcome being beneficial to the business and thus to its customers, in this case both airside and landside.

As for your business model of raising charges by 40%, Manchester is in competion with airports on a comparatively small island. Your business model would see an immediate downturn in service. Imagine a sweet shop unilateraly increasing its prices by 40%. The shop down the road wouldn't have to wait long to see a massive increase in business. As for driving out Ryanair, which provides service which vast numbers of travellers obviously want, that would be like driving Cadbury out of the sweet shop and would go against the airport's raison d'etre of providing service to its catchment area.
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 09:56
  #3939 (permalink)  
 
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Well said Phil

Ian
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 10:11
  #3940 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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SQ also introducing Premium Economy on flights from MAN
The PR:

https://bdaily.co.uk/hospitality/22-...ester-flights/

Sadly no reference to de-linking, A350 or any other improvements.
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