MANCHESTER 1

[Trash 'n' Navs]

Originally Posted by roverman

MAN is the only non-capital/principal city airport in Europe which has achieved this volume without receiving major state aid and without the patronage of a flag carrier. Period.

Not true.

Originally Posted by roverman

When you're a capital city airport the government will step in to make sure that the facilities present a fitting gateway to the country.

Not true.

Originally Posted by roverman

When you are the flag carrier's home base they will stump up the fees to pay for top class facilities.

Not true.

[chaps1954]

Go on then tell us more

Ian

[chaps1954]

American airlines time keeping goes from bad to worse
two days on the trot the AA55 has been hours late

Ian

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Not true.

Not true.

Not true.

You argue your case very persuasively there, T&N. Essential reading for all. Have you ever worked in panto?

[j636]

Shead

TnN is correct, nothing to explain here. There has been nothing posted to back up the claims either.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

TnN is correct, nothing to explain here.

Do you present all your arguments in an I am right, you are wrong format? Not the most compelling form of debate. If you wish to persuade others to your point of view, you will have to put in a little more effort than that. An explanation of your reasoning would be a good start. Go on, give it a go. We might actually end up in agreement with you!

There has been nothing posted to back up the claims either.

Roverman has posted his reasoning. You may disagree with it, but it is there nonetheless. Try presenting a cogent counter-argument. You appear confident in your assertions, so what's holding you back?

[Trash 'n' Navs]

Originally Posted by Shed-on-a-Pole

Do you present all your arguments in an I am right, you are wrong format? Not the most compelling form of debate.

Bit rich coming from you SOAP.

In my opinion, Roverman presented it as fact, not "reasoning". Hence the counter.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Bit rich coming from you SOAP.

The most common criticism levelled against me is the claim that I post too much detail with my reasoning. That's rather different from your throwaway line with nothing whatsoever offered by way of supporting evidence. You can't expect to be taken seriously with Kindergarten-level one-liners.

[GavinC]

well the list below is Europe's Premier League as measured by 20 million passengers in 2014 (taken from Wikipedia). Of these, which meet the criteria stated and which don't then? Does MAN stand out as being 'special'?


For me, Palma and Antalya stand out as having a lack of flag carrier base. Both are resort destinations of course.
Being Spanish, I suspect Palma it might have had regional money pumped into it to expand mind.


1United KingdomLondon-Heathrow Airport 73,405,330
2FranceParis-Charles de Gaulle AirportParis63,813,756
3GermanyFrankfurt AirportFrankfurt59,566,132[
4TurkeyIstanbul Atatürk AirportIstanbul56,954,790
5NetherlandsAmsterdam Airport SchipholAmsterdam54,978,023
6SpainAdolfo Suárez Madrid–Barajas AirportMadrid41,833,374
7GermanyMunich AirportMunich39,700,515
8ItalyLeonardo da Vinci–Fiumicino AirportRome38,506,908
9United KingdomLondon-Gatwick AirportLondon38,103,667[
10SpainBarcelona El Prat AirportBarcelona37,559,044
11RussiaDomodedovo International AirportMoscow33,040,000
12RussiaSheremetyevo International AirportMoscow31,568,000
13FranceParis-Orly AirportParis28,862,586
14TurkeyAntalya AirportAntalya28,341,063
15DenmarkCopenhagen AirportCopenhagen25,627,093[
16SwitzerlandZürich AirportZürich25,477,622
17NorwayOslo Airport, GardermoenOslo24,269,235
18TurkeySabiha Gökçen AirportIstanbul23,631,883
19SpainPalma de Mallorca AirportPalma de Mallorca23,115,499
20AustriaVienna International AirportVienna22,483,158
21SwedenStockholm-Arlanda AirportStockholm22,443,272
22United KingdomManchester AirportManchester21,989,682
23BelgiumBrussels AirportBrussels21,933,190
24GermanyDüsseldorf AirportDüsseldorf21,850,489
25IrelandDublin AirportDublin21,712,173
26GermanyBerlin Tegel AirportBerlin20,688,016

[Aksai Oiler]

Turkey is not in Europe, and we don't need to start consider it being in Europe

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Istanbul Ataturk Airport (IST) is in Europe.

Sabiha Gokcen (SAW) and Antalya (AYT) are in Asia (Asia Minor).

Turkish airports are usually accounted for alongside European counterparts for the purposes of statistical analysis, however. Is that a problem?

[spacedog]

Still waiting for trash......to substantiate his not true remarks

[roverman]

The purpose of my post regarding MAN's imminent progression to the 25mppa+ league was essentially to beat the drum a little and say 'didn't he do well?!" and especially without the advantages enjoyed by most or all of the other players.

As for my factual basis or reasoning, which some have questioned:

1. I think we can all agree that Manchester is not the UK capital and not its dominant city in aviation, tourism and GDP.

2. State funding. I cannot say categorically that MAN has never benefitted from any central government financial machinery such as public loans but I feel reasonably secure in claiming that MAN has never been owned or managed by an agency of the national government and has never since WW2 had national government investment in the core infrastructure - runways, taxiways, terminals, ATC. As another poster pointed out, MAN has made substantial financial contributions to the rail and tram infrastructure serving the airport, indeed it stepped in to ensure the rail link was built in 1993 when BR got the wobbles.

3. Flag carriers. I concede that for many decades up to 2008 the UK flag carrier in the form of BEA/BOAC/BA did operate a base at MAN, and at one time had a reasonable network of European destinations and a token North Atlantic service. This no doubt helped to establish MAN as the principal airport in the North. However it was a double-edged sword because the flag carrier often used its influence to prevent others operating international services from MAN to new destinations, despite having no intention of flying the route itself. Terminal investment needs to be recovered in fees and charges, but we know that MAN could not sustain the £33-£42 per passenger charged at Heathrow, (MAN currently £7 to £14 including Security). So I think I am right in saying that flag carriers will pay hefty charges for top class facilities at their home hubs, because in BA's case at least, clearly they are doing.


Position in Europe, by volume:

MAN has indeed slipped down the league table of European airports measured by passenger volume alone. When you look at the ones which have overtaken MAN they are all airports which have at least one of the advantages which MAN does not enjoy, the ones I listed in my previous posts.

MAN openly acknowledges that its terminal facilities have become out of date and fallen behind many other airports. This will be more exposed once it moves into the 25mppa bracket and is measured alongside the major hubs in ASQ surveys. The T2 expansion project will address this but will be a few years in delivery. MAN does exceptionally well with what it has and we can look forward to a continuing excellent choice of destinations and services and an improved, if not gold-plated, customer experience to come.

[Sholto Douglas]

Between Shed and Roverman we appear to have two people who have actual experience of either, or indeed maybe both, ATC or airport operations. I believe that their firsthand knowledge may far outweigh many, but not all, of the other posters.

There are always two sides to an agreement, however to be rude and possibly derogatory about a person's views is to not understand, or even consider, the possible reasons for their posts and thus give a reasoned response.

[Suzeman]

DHL

Seen it reported that the cessation of DHL service shortly is down to aircraft shortages - certainly there has been a mix of 757 and 737 in the short period that it has operated.

Same usually reliable source says it will recommence in April

[LAX_LHR]

Apparently DHL will use the A300 on their return in April as there will be more trucking service said no stream to enable to requirement of the larger aircraft.

In other news, a new 2 weekly Orlando to be announced soon. Will be served by an American carrier.

[adfly]

National? Or Delta adding capacity to VS?

[canberra97]

If it is National it will be from Sanford rather than Orlando as they have recently made a press release stating their intentions to fly from Florida and the North East of the USA to the UK in 2016 using their recently acquired Boeing 777 as well as their intention to purchase further frames, with the routes from the north eastern seaboard which they intend to fly from along with Sanford National could easily use a Boeing 757 which they currently have in their fleet.

The discussion regarding this is currently on other online forums.

[Bagso]

If we are talking investment in transport infastructure I draw readers attention to the headline in last night's evening standard!

Revealed: £560m plans to overhaul Bank station | Transport | News | London Evening Standard

My goodness are they putting in gold plated urinals !

That's right this is just one underground station and an equivalent indirect taxpayer spend of over half the private money that Manchester is raising to get T2 over the line !

[LAX_LHR]

Monarch will begin a 3 weekly Tel Aviv flight from 19th April.

Flights will be Tue/Thu/Sat.