MANCHESTER 1
Sorry to be in the cup half empty camp. I'm not sure why you think US pre clearance will have airlines pouring new routes into MAN. What is it to the airline where you clear immigration? Dublin had hardly had an explosion of new US routes.
It will almost be another year before the fist turf is cut and at least ten years before it is finished. Between now and then, we know things will change, slow down, corners cut, compromises made etc. (T2 was planned to be extended to double size by 2003 but never happened).
In the meantime, action needs to be taken now..this year. T3 is just plain awful between 7 and 9am weekdays. I'm not surprised Domestics are down, I know I am not the only one opting for road & rail purely because the T3 experience is so dire at these peak times.
Yesterdays PR "Puff" was interesting, but with next to no detail.
What the airlines and passengers (me) would like to know is how are they going to improve the passenger experience in 2015/2016?
OK now you can flame me...........................
It will almost be another year before the fist turf is cut and at least ten years before it is finished. Between now and then, we know things will change, slow down, corners cut, compromises made etc. (T2 was planned to be extended to double size by 2003 but never happened).
In the meantime, action needs to be taken now..this year. T3 is just plain awful between 7 and 9am weekdays. I'm not surprised Domestics are down, I know I am not the only one opting for road & rail purely because the T3 experience is so dire at these peak times.
Yesterdays PR "Puff" was interesting, but with next to no detail.
What the airlines and passengers (me) would like to know is how are they going to improve the passenger experience in 2015/2016?
OK now you can flame me...........................
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Valid questions Mr Tis, but I suspect that the most significant factor in the domestic drop is the pullout of Little Red.
The effect of US pre-clearance will be indirect on routes. For arguments sake if it adds 5% to load factors then that may swing a calculation on a prospective route from not potentially profitable enough to worth a shot. My understanding of Dublin is that Aer Lingus' load factors/profitability across the Atlantic has improved in recent years. How much of that can be laid at the door of pre-clearance I don't know, but I suspect that it is a factor.
The effect of US pre-clearance will be indirect on routes. For arguments sake if it adds 5% to load factors then that may swing a calculation on a prospective route from not potentially profitable enough to worth a shot. My understanding of Dublin is that Aer Lingus' load factors/profitability across the Atlantic has improved in recent years. How much of that can be laid at the door of pre-clearance I don't know, but I suspect that it is a factor.
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I'm not sure why you think US pre clearance will have airlines pouring new routes into MAN. What is it to the airline where you clear immigration?
I don't think anyone expected an explosion of US routes.
However, it may make our existing flights more attractive (ei people who travel away from MAN to get to the US may see an advantage of clearing the customs lines 'while they wait for their flight'), but, there are a small number of flights which may see the benefit of the US PBC.
1- Charlotte. Aside from slightly weak yields, One of the issues cited with loosing CLT is the lack of available international gates at CLT. A pre cleared flight can use domestic gates and thus help us get the flight back.
2-Reno. Thomas Cook are in expansion mode at the moment, and one route they announced was LGW-RNO. It was then canned citing 'inadiquate customs and border staff to process the passengers. Again, with USPBC at MAN, that issue goes away, so maybe the tour company who requested the flight can be persueded to use MAN?
3) Stop over flights. Etiopian have just started DUB stop over flights, PIA hold more 5th freedom rights beyond MAN, Biman constantly have the 'will they wont they' on JFK and Emirates seem to be on the prowl for US stop over flights from Europe.
So, there are some. Not an explosion, but there are some.
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LAX
The CLT excuse just takes the biscuit, lack of gates would not be factored into a route being cancelled. As for yield slightly low would not get a route cancelled. Those lack of gates can now accommodate the additional wide bodies this year did space just appear?
It was loss making and most likely impacted on PHL profitability.
The CLT excuse just takes the biscuit, lack of gates would not be factored into a route being cancelled. As for yield slightly low would not get a route cancelled. Those lack of gates can now accommodate the additional wide bodies this year did space just appear?
It was loss making and most likely impacted on PHL profitability.
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Jamie2K9
Nobody on here knows how much any route makes.
CLT could well have made money, but the a/c could have made more on another route, or maybe one of another multiple reasons we are not privvy to.
Your claim it lost money is a complete uneducated guess !
Nobody on here knows how much any route makes.
CLT could well have made money, but the a/c could have made more on another route, or maybe one of another multiple reasons we are not privvy to.
Your claim it lost money is a complete uneducated guess !
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eggc
As is those slightly low yields, airlines have expectations for what they make on routes and if they fail to meet it they are dropped if they feel it cant be achieved by running for another season. If they felt it was worthwhile operating it would stay.
As is those slightly low yields, airlines have expectations for what they make on routes and if they fail to meet it they are dropped if they feel it cant be achieved by running for another season. If they felt it was worthwhile operating it would stay.
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There is one huge advantage (aside from optimising gate utilisation) of US PBC for the 'Big 3' US network carriers. An enormous drop in the number of UK-originating passengers who haven't a prayer of making their advertised onward connections as planned. Who must then join that godawful queue for domestic flight rebookings after the glacial US immigration procedure we endure at present. The cost of the current shambles to the airlines must be staggering. And often the rebookings result in handing business to a rival carrier, or hotel costs. Of course, it might actually help if the US carriers would market connections which have a fighting chance of working in the first place.
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Jamie,
Firstly, lack of gates was a valid excuse at the time. Do a little searching, plenty of proof available on the wonderful wide web as US made no secret that CLT was a little 'cramped' intl wise. Surely its no co-incidence that the reason some widebody gates have been 'found' this year versus last is nothing to do with the fact 3 international routes stopped and a slight re-jig occured to help squeeze them in???
Yield was poor due to the lack of cargo able to be carried. The B757 was uselss for the MAN-CLT role, and AA have said MAN could return in 2016 if they can get a widebody on the route
However, given your quite protectionist view of DUB when it comes to MAN (Ive seen various comments), Ill take any comments from you regarding our airport with a large dose of certain condiment.
Firstly, lack of gates was a valid excuse at the time. Do a little searching, plenty of proof available on the wonderful wide web as US made no secret that CLT was a little 'cramped' intl wise. Surely its no co-incidence that the reason some widebody gates have been 'found' this year versus last is nothing to do with the fact 3 international routes stopped and a slight re-jig occured to help squeeze them in???
Yield was poor due to the lack of cargo able to be carried. The B757 was uselss for the MAN-CLT role, and AA have said MAN could return in 2016 if they can get a widebody on the route
However, given your quite protectionist view of DUB when it comes to MAN (Ive seen various comments), Ill take any comments from you regarding our airport with a large dose of certain condiment.
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Credit M E N
Manchester Airport could become the only one in Britain to be able to clear passengers through US immigration before they take off.
It has been shortlisted by the US Department of Homeland Security as a ‘priority base’ to host security pre-clearance - known to cuts queues, woo airlines and boost business.
There are currently only two bases in Europe with such rights - Dublin and Shannon.
The vote of confidence by the USA has enabled airport bosses to add the facility to their ambitious £1bn transformation project which was revealed yesterday !
The only other UK airport on the shortlist of 10 is Heathrow - but it doesn’t currently have plans for a fit-for-purpose terminal development which has been announced by Manchester.
.......pretty sure DUB HAS benefitted but who knows !
Manchester Airport could become the only one in Britain to be able to clear passengers through US immigration before they take off.
It has been shortlisted by the US Department of Homeland Security as a ‘priority base’ to host security pre-clearance - known to cuts queues, woo airlines and boost business.
There are currently only two bases in Europe with such rights - Dublin and Shannon.
The vote of confidence by the USA has enabled airport bosses to add the facility to their ambitious £1bn transformation project which was revealed yesterday !
The only other UK airport on the shortlist of 10 is Heathrow - but it doesn’t currently have plans for a fit-for-purpose terminal development which has been announced by Manchester.
.......pretty sure DUB HAS benefitted but who knows !
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Jamie
A few years back many airports in US had international flights but
very few stands for inbounds (aircraft were towed to a domestic stand for departures)
Minneapolis was one which only had 2 stands (now changed) but if 3 flights arrived at similar time
chaos followed and we were dumped miles from the main airport and had to make our own way
on a local bus from outside terminal which took over 30 minutes to get to main terminal
for our onward domestic flight.
A few years back many airports in US had international flights but
very few stands for inbounds (aircraft were towed to a domestic stand for departures)
Minneapolis was one which only had 2 stands (now changed) but if 3 flights arrived at similar time
chaos followed and we were dumped miles from the main airport and had to make our own way
on a local bus from outside terminal which took over 30 minutes to get to main terminal
for our onward domestic flight.
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LAX
CLT has problems like all global airports however such an excuse would not be a remote consideration for a route cancellation. Such issues are easily addressed when airport operators are creative with slot allocations.
Hearing it all now, if cargo was in such high demand it would be carried directly at a premium with capacity so limited. It could return in 2016 however do you honestly expect it to, possibly in future but not that soon.
Note at CLT is now a A330 T/A base only so that would of offered lots of cargo space for MAN this year or next if they wanted.
However, given your quite protectionist view of DUB when it comes to MAN (Ive seen various comments), Ill take any comments from you regarding our airport with a large dose of certain condiment.
Pot and Kettle anybody??
eggc
Was not meant to be, just throwing out another "fact" out about CLT!
Well aware of capacity problems but if it was a money spinner it would not be cut after 3/4 months.
Firstly, lack of gates was a valid excuse at the time. Do a little searching, plenty of proof available on the wonderful wide web as US made no secret that CLT was a little 'cramped' intl wise. Surely its no co-incidence that the reason some widebody gates have been 'found' this year versus last is nothing to do with the fact 3 international routes stopped and a slight re-jig occured to help squeeze them in???
Yield was poor due to the lack of cargo able to be carried. The B757 was uselss for the MAN-CLT role, and AA have said MAN could return in 2016 if they can get a widebody on the route
Note at CLT is now a A330 T/A base only so that would of offered lots of cargo space for MAN this year or next if they wanted.
However, given your quite protectionist view of DUB when it comes to MAN (Ive seen various comments), Ill take any comments from you regarding our airport with a large dose of certain condiment.
eggc
There is a difference between your reply and the original post "it lost money".
Jamie
A few years back many airports in US had international flights but
very few stands for inbounds (aircraft were towed to a domestic stand for departures)
Minneapolis was one which only had 2 stands (now changed) but if 3 flights arrived at similar time
chaos followed and we were dumped miles from the main airport and had to make our own way
on a local bus from outside terminal which took over 30 minutes to get to main terminal
for our onward domestic flight.
A few years back many airports in US had international flights but
very few stands for inbounds (aircraft were towed to a domestic stand for departures)
Minneapolis was one which only had 2 stands (now changed) but if 3 flights arrived at similar time
chaos followed and we were dumped miles from the main airport and had to make our own way
on a local bus from outside terminal which took over 30 minutes to get to main terminal
for our onward domestic flight.
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Manchester Airport: £1bn plan to 'transform' site launched - BBC News
I have checked ...yes 24hrs on 3rd June 7am we have made the BBC (notwithstanding Look N West)
Better later than never although coverage on national TV news should have been a given.
It will be when SHD reports re LHR and LGW.
I have checked ...yes 24hrs on 3rd June 7am we have made the BBC (notwithstanding Look N West)
Better later than never although coverage on national TV news should have been a given.
It will be when SHD reports re LHR and LGW.
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CLT has problems like all global airports however such an excuse would not be a remote consideration for a route cancellation
Note at CLT is now a A330 T/A base only so that would of offered lots of cargo space for MAN this year or next if they wanted
Pot and Kettle anybody??
Oh and I would like you to point out to me, Jamie, where I said MAN-CLT was a 'money spinner'. As Im pretty sure I wrote 'weak yield'. Not quite the same?
SAS increases now confirmed for the winter season :-
MAN-CPH from 13 to 18 weekly
MAN-ARN from 7 to 11 weekly
Still on SAS, the twice weekly Bergen service seems to be taking a break from mid-December until resuming in the Spring. Is that usual (I can't remember) ?
Ref US pre clearance. There is a system in place where airports bid (compete) for it, but not all are successful. Those that are successful then have to pay for building and setting it up, and the airlines that want it have to pay for using it. Neither airports and especially airlines are well known for splashing their cash unnecessarily. That all tells me there is a proven pay off.
Certainly as a passenger I'd much rather spend an extra hour or so at the start of the journey to get it all out of the way. I can then relax on the flight itself without stressing about how long the queues are going to be at the other end with a bunch of tired and restless kids, and whether or not we'll make our connecting flight.
MAN-CPH from 13 to 18 weekly
MAN-ARN from 7 to 11 weekly
Still on SAS, the twice weekly Bergen service seems to be taking a break from mid-December until resuming in the Spring. Is that usual (I can't remember) ?
Ref US pre clearance. There is a system in place where airports bid (compete) for it, but not all are successful. Those that are successful then have to pay for building and setting it up, and the airlines that want it have to pay for using it. Neither airports and especially airlines are well known for splashing their cash unnecessarily. That all tells me there is a proven pay off.
Certainly as a passenger I'd much rather spend an extra hour or so at the start of the journey to get it all out of the way. I can then relax on the flight itself without stressing about how long the queues are going to be at the other end with a bunch of tired and restless kids, and whether or not we'll make our connecting flight.
Last edited by Logohu; 3rd Jun 2015 at 11:24. Reason: typo
Manchester Airport: £1bn plan to 'transform' site launched - BBC News
I have checked ...yes 24hrs on 3rd June 7am we have made the BBC (notwithstanding Look N West)
Better later than never although coverage on national TV news should have been a given.
It will be when SHD reports re LHR and LGW.
I have checked ...yes 24hrs on 3rd June 7am we have made the BBC (notwithstanding Look N West)
Better later than never although coverage on national TV news should have been a given.
It will be when SHD reports re LHR and LGW.
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My apologies then, didn't realise you were stand controller at CLT. Humbled. Genuinely.
Yes Jamie, because after the B767-200 retirements and still no crossfleeting yet to free up widebody capacity where needed, there are just dozens of A330's sitting around available for a route! Or maybe Ive missed the new A330 IFO (invisible flying option)?
While I admire the wit, its not quite the same is it? Im not 'poo-pooing' Dublin to promote MAN, or visit the DUB threads on a regular basis to attempt to shoot down ideas/thoughts in the same way you do in the vice versa. But, whatever...
Oh and I would like you to point out to me, Jamie, where I said MAN-CLT was a 'money spinner'. As Im pretty sure I wrote 'weak yield'. Not quite the same?