Flybe - 7
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: Non-Aircrew
Posts: 968
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From: London, UK
I can't speak for Dan Air but the problem Metropolitan had with the multi stop route was that the middle sectors tended to fill up which blocked out the possibility for higher revenue pax to travel the whole length of the route. These sorts of multi stop routes used to be popular in the USA before deregulation when fares etc were regulated but I am not aware of one working in a deregulated regime (but am of course open to being corrected).
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 221
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From: The glasshouse, a stone's throw from you
Willy
I could argue that they do
I travelled to Australia on a Singapore Airlines plane (i think) many people got off at Singapore and some got on but I travelled through on to Sydney.
Sorry for the thread creep.
I could argue that they do
I travelled to Australia on a Singapore Airlines plane (i think) many people got off at Singapore and some got on but I travelled through on to Sydney.
Sorry for the thread creep.
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,621
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From: Ireland
With respect, that's not the same as what's being described here. What you're talking about is just a one-stop connecting itinerary through a hub: Singapore, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, etc. What's being discussed here is a multi-stop "bus stop" route from A to B to C to D, where each passenger's goal is not to connect to/from another flight, but to travel from A to C, or A to D, or B to D. And all else being equal, in this example B to C would be the busiest sector (as willy wombat says).
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,948
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From: Cloud 9
I travelled to Australia on a Singapore Airlines plane (i think) many people got off at Singapore and some got on but I travelled through on to Sydney.
Metropolitan operated a western UK route also, it involved BOH, CWL and (I think) LPL, gawd knows where else along the way.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,948
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From: Cloud 9
Back in the days of Brymon and the PLH-NQY-LHR route you had passengers from LHR-PLH and LHR-NQY then the joiners at PLH- and NQY- for LHR. It's a difficult balance but nowadays with considerably better technology it fare trends should be pretty easy to gauge. Move forward to Air Southwest and we managed it fairly well
25 years later ASW remained peeing off the punters with combined air services!!!
P.S. I know of you "EGHQ", if you don't believe what I say then ask a Councillor that we both mutually know
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: The glasshouse, a stone's throw from you
En-route UK/Australia I'd me more concerned if your flight didn't stop for a refuel somewhere!
I agree that my flight wasn't strictly what Willy was after, but I think that is the nearest you'll get in this day and age.
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 7,056
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From: London
there used to be some horrendous bus stop flights in the US - out in places like Wyoming and Minnesota - you started to lose track of the number of takeoffs you'd done - NW had a few served by 727's
Still some in Australia - 4 -5 stops out from places like Cairns or Alice and then reverse the flight back in the afternoon (or go on round the circuit clockwise one day and anti-clockwise the next)
better than no flights at all but ................
Still some in Australia - 4 -5 stops out from places like Cairns or Alice and then reverse the flight back in the afternoon (or go on round the circuit clockwise one day and anti-clockwise the next)
better than no flights at all but ................
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,948
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From: Cloud 9
Still some in Australia
Just dial up the frequency, twiddle with the radio "transmit" switch, and the runway and airport illuminates, land, drop off/pick up, and on your way again!
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,652
Likes: 138
From: 50+ north
Phileas Fogg
I think that you will find that this issue is the subject of a current UK CAA Consultation, although I doubt it will be available for Public Transport flights.
Consultation - Proposal to relax CAA requirements governing the provision and access to Pilot Controlled Aeronautical Ground Lighting (AGL) at licensed aerodromes | Consultations and Responses | About the CAA
I think that you will find that this issue is the subject of a current UK CAA Consultation, although I doubt it will be available for Public Transport flights.
Consultation - Proposal to relax CAA requirements governing the provision and access to Pilot Controlled Aeronautical Ground Lighting (AGL) at licensed aerodromes | Consultations and Responses | About the CAA
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 473
Likes: 2
From: UK
Judging by the RNS listed today, it would appear that JP Morgan Chase picked up the IAG shares offloaded last week.
Good to see another large investment bank getting in on the action. Let's hope they see good prospects for the future.
Good to see another large investment bank getting in on the action. Let's hope they see good prospects for the future.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 458
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From: East Yorkshire
Flybe back on a route they could not make work now offering a bus stop service. Jer-Sou-LBA-ABZ
Unfortunately the business passengers who pay the big dosh wont want to have to wait for an unreliable dash coming from some of the most fog affected airports in the country
Too big an aircraft to fill and the wrong times, passengers want to leave Leeds early not mid morning.
And who will back down now, because the tide has turned as Eastern have the financial power now with the Bristow tie up and Flybe's bucket is nearly empty
Time will tell
Unfortunately the business passengers who pay the big dosh wont want to have to wait for an unreliable dash coming from some of the most fog affected airports in the country
Too big an aircraft to fill and the wrong times, passengers want to leave Leeds early not mid morning.
And who will back down now, because the tide has turned as Eastern have the financial power now with the Bristow tie up and Flybe's bucket is nearly empty
Time will tell
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 473
Likes: 2
From: UK
Flybe's bucket is far from empty. They come off the back of a profitable past year following significant cost cutting and a successful £150m capital raise.
Sure both routes have been tried before but the schedule is now broadly improved over previous offerings, particularly on LBAABZ. Demand on the route will be stimulated by the significantly lower fares offered by Flybe over Eastern.
Time will indeed tell, but I don't think we'll have to wait too long to see what Eastern do.
Sure both routes have been tried before but the schedule is now broadly improved over previous offerings, particularly on LBAABZ. Demand on the route will be stimulated by the significantly lower fares offered by Flybe over Eastern.
Time will indeed tell, but I don't think we'll have to wait too long to see what Eastern do.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Southampton, UK
I m struggling to understand this "bus stop" service it simply seems to be a regular scheduled flight with two intermediate stops that you can buy any "segment" - which they used to do (and maybe still do...?)
I recall a few years ago a flight from SOU to ABZ that stopped in either LBA or NCL, so isn't this just a "re-branding" of an existing (or older) service?
I recall a few years ago a flight from SOU to ABZ that stopped in either LBA or NCL, so isn't this just a "re-branding" of an existing (or older) service?
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,523
Likes: 41
From: Solihull
Busy week
My word what a trying start to the week but certainly seem to pulling out the stops at BHX today.
Only the second Reykjavik departure last night but it went this morning over 12 hours late and on a Titan B733, one Cello RJ85 has or will have operated by tonight just 14 sectors in two days
.
One 195 left BHX yesterday morning for Helvetic another is back in service at BHX including on the Florence today, there were at least two cancellations yesterday at BHX along with delays, but the subbing in has resulted in only delays today.
I know some of this was due to planned maintenance on the 175 (Cello on standby all July) but I assume other problems have occurred?
Good to see not just resorting to cancellations at this time of year. The two cancellations yesterday were the 5th inbound Glasgow and Belfast and with two further flights, hopefully allowed for some re-booking.
Pete
Only the second Reykjavik departure last night but it went this morning over 12 hours late and on a Titan B733, one Cello RJ85 has or will have operated by tonight just 14 sectors in two days
.One 195 left BHX yesterday morning for Helvetic another is back in service at BHX including on the Florence today, there were at least two cancellations yesterday at BHX along with delays, but the subbing in has resulted in only delays today.
I know some of this was due to planned maintenance on the 175 (Cello on standby all July) but I assume other problems have occurred?
Good to see not just resorting to cancellations at this time of year. The two cancellations yesterday were the 5th inbound Glasgow and Belfast and with two further flights, hopefully allowed for some re-booking.
Pete
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: Hang on, let me check the FMS...
The 'fly shuttle' service is just a clever marketing ploy to hide the fact you have 2or3 30 minute connections included in your ticket price. Don't you also need to clear UK customs at the first point of arrival, so all JER pax will have to disembark at SOU and re board?
After doing the trip once I don't see many PAX booking it again - especially business pax who this concept is aimed at.
Flybe pockets are not 'empty' by any means, however coming off the back of years of loses, and at times pretty big ones, one year of profit doesn't mean they are back on their feet yet. A conflict in Iraq and higher oil prices is the last thing they need and I also understand an impeding holiday pay law suit may need to be paid out soon?
After doing the trip once I don't see many PAX booking it again - especially business pax who this concept is aimed at.
Flybe pockets are not 'empty' by any means, however coming off the back of years of loses, and at times pretty big ones, one year of profit doesn't mean they are back on their feet yet. A conflict in Iraq and higher oil prices is the last thing they need and I also understand an impeding holiday pay law suit may need to be paid out soon?
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 15
From: Southampton, U.K
Hopefully the individual 'parts' of the fly shuttle route will do well (assuming Flybe provide a reliable and punctual service) and any passengers staying on over a stop are seen as a bonus.
SOU-JER is well established and presumably just the transfer of 3 of the 5 weekdaily rotations from the 'normal' schedule.
SOU-LBA there is a market for it, but Flybe did not make it work in the past.
LBA-ABZ is quite similar to the above, and both will face competition from Eastern (assuming they don't just back out).
Outside these ABZ-SOU via LBA is again served by Eastern, and Flybe should be able to stimulate additional demand by undercutting them significantly.
LBA-JER via SOU also is a fairly convenient option as it effectively offers a 3 daily service from LBA, which would not work by itself.
I doubt many people will fly the whole route, although it would be interesting to see the figures once the route has started.
SOU-JER is well established and presumably just the transfer of 3 of the 5 weekdaily rotations from the 'normal' schedule.
SOU-LBA there is a market for it, but Flybe did not make it work in the past.
LBA-ABZ is quite similar to the above, and both will face competition from Eastern (assuming they don't just back out).
Outside these ABZ-SOU via LBA is again served by Eastern, and Flybe should be able to stimulate additional demand by undercutting them significantly.
LBA-JER via SOU also is a fairly convenient option as it effectively offers a 3 daily service from LBA, which would not work by itself.
I doubt many people will fly the whole route, although it would be interesting to see the figures once the route has started.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 492
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From: the edge of madness
Not surprised they intend to restart SOU - LBA however it's dressed up. According to new management, the airline is to to focus on domestic ops where the plane can beat car or train. So, if they couldn't make a connection between two large conurbations, which are four to five hours apart by surface travel, work they're doomed - doomed I tell you!
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 294
Likes: 7
From: leeds
Also, depending on the times and connections, accessing the range of flybe French destinations via SOU will be useful from LBA. Except for the places served directly by FR, provincial France is not very conveniently accessible from Leeds and this gives an option. Of course it will be just one or two per flight doing that but that's how networks work.