EDINBURGH - 2

[Logohu]

Let's hope the MAX introduction goes a bit more smoothly for Norwegian than did the 787 which was a total nightmare. Bold move launching straight into transatlantic flights on a brand new engine/airframe combination.

[GoEDI]

I am very much looking forward to seeing what their expansion plans at EDI bring. The SWF/PVD flights will have to be priced aggressively to appeal to EDI originating pax heading for NYC or BOS... But let's not underestimate the demand this could stimulate for US visitors to EDI/Scotland from those metropolitan areas who otherwise might not have bothered...it could be 'Ryanair effect' Mk2.
Orlando would be the best bet for a Florida flight, but looks like there are no plans for a base there at this stage so unlikely. Not convinced they'll go for FLL straight away tbh but we'll see.

The more I look at how Norwegian run their business, the better Ryanair looks. That's meant to be impossible IMHO.
Great to have new flights to new places for much cheapness but it's all built off the back of cutting corners and finding ways round the rules.

Norwegian B738, Kristiansand, 04 Nov 2016

Not entirely fair to single out Norwegian in this case. Granted the actual operator sounds shady in this instance and perhaps DY failed at properly vetting them first, but ultimately it should be up to the appropriate regulators to weed out any questionable ACMI lessors such as this mob. Leasing out ops to other carriers is common industry wide. CSA recently had a B734 leased from the same operator, BA using Jettime... They all do it, this could happen to almost any airline.
I believe the lease contract with Go2Sky has now ended anyway. Probably just as well...

[Una Due Tfc]

There's a reason the 321 NEO is outselling its' MAX rival 4-1, Norwegian have backed the wrong horse here.

[GoEDI]

They also have A321LRs on order but they won't be available until at least 2019. In the mean time the MAX should (hopefully!) be capable of fulfilling the missions they have planned for it.

[willy wombat]

It is going to be really interesting to see how this plays out if the £/$ exchange rate stays roughly where it is now as this is already impacting hard on the yields of the existing North Atlantic carriers. The suggestion that Norwegian will have to price aggressively in the Scottish market place would just make this worse and indeed it would probably be more important that they price aggressively in the US to get some USD in. One thing I think we can all agree on is that assuming Norwegian go ahead with these plans, the Scottish transatlantic scene, in terms of carriers and routes, will look a lot different in a couple of years time.

[fjencl]

Flybe to launch new Heathrow flights from Aberdeen and Edinburgh

Flybe to launch new Heathrow flights from Aberdeen and Edinburgh - The Scotsman

[AerRyan]

On a Dash? That would stick out in Heathrow!

[edi_local]

Flybe, on behalf of SN, used to fly a Dash into LHR not that long ago. They did it for about a year or so in 2012-2013 I seem to remember. It may even make the odd appearance, but I think SN now only use the A319/20 and Avro.

Still, LHR-EDI doesn't seem to fit much into their product, but time will tell. They might be better trying to link other regional airports to LHR, for example, DND, CWL, JER, GCI, IOM, MME even NWI and HUY and getting a few interline agreements on the go to feed markets BA and others dont and which are not that easy to transfer to from LHR and are otherwise cumbersome and lenghty by road or rail. That would make them a real UK regional carrier, offering feeder services to a main hub, rather than the mix and match network they have now which is mostly just point to point traffic.

[willy wombat]

Yes but they wouldn't get the slots. They have to fly EDI and ABZ to get the BA remedy slots.

[Donkey497]

There is a rather large territory just a little to the north of New York which happens to have a large number of conveniently arranged and suspiciously wide strips of concrete and tarmac that might take arriving and departing, so there may be another market that Norwegian might be thinking of taking on.
Given the fares on Rouge, I wouldn't be too surprised to see Norwegian looking at Canadian destinations, or maybe even teaming up with Team Teal.

[Fairdealfrank]

Still, LHR-EDI doesn't seem to fit much into their product, but time will tell. They might be better trying to link other regional airports to LHR, for example, DND, CWL, JER, GCI, IOM, MME even NWI and HUY and getting a few interline agreements on the go to feed markets BA and others dont and which are not that easy to transfer to from LHR and are otherwise cumbersome and lenghty by road or rail. That would make them a real UK regional carrier, offering feeder services to a main hub, rather than the mix and match network they have now which is mostly just point to point traffic.

Yes but they wouldn't get the slots. They have to fly EDI and ABZ to get the BA remedy slots.

Will BE be using the domestic stands at Heathrow-2 previously used by VS?

It's 12 slot pairs isn't it? Is LHR-EDI and LHR-ABZ for ever, or can BE alter the routes after a period of time?

[inOban]

Does anyone have inside knowledge on what Easyjet are up to?
First, they cut back several routes at peak season, all except NCE being all year services. The latest release reinstates the third KEF flight and the dropped Hamburg flights, but leaves the others. I can understand CPH where there are 3 competing operators, but SXF just 3x/week, and Prague?

I notice a lot of very cheap ski fares still available. Is the market turning increasingly soft?

[buzz_hornet]

Originally Posted by Fairdealfrank

Will BE be using the domestic stands at Heathrow-2 previously used by VS?

It's 12 slot pairs isn't it? Is LHR-EDI and LHR-ABZ for ever, or can BE alter the routes after a period of time?

be interested to know if they are restricted to ABZ and EDI as Flybe were rumoured to be looking at LDY-LHR?

[canberra97]

Even if or when Flybe start flying from LHR I can not see LDY being one of the domestic destinations from the airport, the cost of flying from LHR wouldn't make it profitable enough as the yields would be terrible esp with two airports down the road in Belfast.

LDY to LHR will never happen it's just a local plane spotters rumour nothing more than that.

[cuthere]

Canberra. I assume you're unaware of the current PSO tender which is out for LDY-LON, closing on the 21st of this month. LHR costs would be hugely mitigated by the fact that the government is subsiding the route.

[willy wombat]

But where would the slots come from? The BA remedy slots are restricted to ABZ and EDI. I think you have to operate them for 3 years then you can do something else with them. If the losses had been bearable you could assume that VS would have stuck it out for an extra year to get their hands on extra LHR slots so we must assume that the losses were not bearable.

[Exasperated]

Originally Posted by willy wombat

But where would the slots come from? The BA remedy slots are restricted to ABZ and EDI. I think you have to operate them for 3 years then you can do something else with them. If the losses had been bearable you could assume that VS would have stuck it out for an extra year to get their hands on extra LHR slots so we must assume that the losses were not bearable.

Or maybe they could not also cope with the restrictions after three years which are

Once the Utilisation Period has elapsed, the prospective entrant would be entitled to use the slots obtained on the basis of the Commitments exclusively to operate services on any route connecting London with any other part of Europe (including Aberdeen and Edinburgh), or on London-Moscow, London-Cairo and London-Riyadh.

In effect they are no use to a long haul operator with that clause

Ex

[Fairdealfrank]

Or maybe they could not also cope with the restrictions after three years which are

Quote:
Once the Utilisation Period has elapsed, the prospective entrant would be entitled to use the slots obtained on the basis of the Commitments exclusively to operate services on any route connecting London with any other part of Europe (including Aberdeen and Edinburgh), or on London-Moscow, London-Cairo and London-Riyadh.
In effect they are no use to a long haul operator with that clause

Ex

As these are EU arrangements can they be altered if/when the UK has left the EU?

[willy wombat]

I think it was UK Competition Commission, not EU. There must presumably come a time when the restrictions on the use of the slots fall away but I don't know the detail. We need Flightrider to enter this discussion as he could give us chapter and verse

[SealinkBF]

Hmm. I was sure that when VS started Little Red, one of the restrictions was that they could not offer fewer seats on routes than BD had, I was told that was why they didn't introduce a business class cabin. So will BE be getting new planes? Or was I (more likely) misinformed?!

If BE operate to T2 with their wealth of interline agreements it might work... but they couldn't get Gatwick to work so wonder what has changed?

What is there so stop Little Red's problem of carrying mainly point to point traffic?