Citywing
Hopefully this incident will finally make the authorities take note and close down this sham of an operation. Crazy that it's been allowed to continue after the Manx2 crash.
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Citywing are not an airline so I can't see how they'll ever operate J41s. The L410 is sturdy and in a good operator's hands will provide a safe, reliable service. It's ideally suited for flying around the Irish Sea. The only time we could see this is if they get Eastern to do some flying in the same wad that Cityflyer sub some flying to T3.
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Citywing
It's good to see the CAA taking decisive action by effectively grounding Van Air. I cannot understand how a 'virtual' airline can continue to sell tickets. If, god forbid there had been an accident yesterday, would those affected have been able to go to Citywing? Of course not! They would have been referred to Van Air in Brno - have you seen their website? You would have thought after the Manx2 debacle, a regulation would have been imposed such that it would be impossible to sell flights/tickets as an airline without an AOC. As the relatives of those tragically killed in Cork know only too well, there is a glaring regulatory loophole here and its high time is was closed. BTW, who is liable for EU261 payments for today's disrupted passengers? Good luck with that one.
Citywing can confirm that Van Air-operated flight 502 took off from the Isle of Man destined for Belfast on Thursday morning but returned due to deteriorating weather conditions in Northern Ireland.
Citywing have been advised by Van Air that the UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has requested to speak with Van Air following the incident.
Citywing have been advised by Van Air that the UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has requested to speak with Van Air following the incident.
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Citywing are not an airline so I can't see how they'll ever operate J41s. The L410 is sturdy and in a good operator's hands will provide a safe, reliable service. It's ideally suited for flying around the Irish Sea.
Citywing is not an airline so they will never operate anything
The only time we could see this is if they get Eastern to do some flying in the same wad that Cityflyer sub some flying to T3.
As is so often the case, this statement raises more questions than answers. The incident described above is nothing unusual, so what prompted the CAA's interest?
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The J41s are over 19 seats so would move Citywing out of the current non-ATOL category in which they comfortably reside. Unless they block most of the cabin, as the test is 'seats available to passengers'. Alternatively they could arrange transport by hot-air balloon or airship, without any seating restrictions...
Last edited by El Bunto; 24th Feb 2017 at 14:09.
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The whole point of this business model is that the ticket seller requires neither an Operating Licence or an ATOL. If they want to charter aircraft with greater capacity than 19 seats then they need one or the other.
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I think there is a reason why Citywings cooperates with a Czech outfit operating the LET410 and not someone more home-grown/swanky..... I can see all the complaints here as soon as Citywing signs a different partner airlines and as a result doubles the fares...
While I can understand that many on the rock would like to see a true Manx airline operating services, I have some difficulties understanding the hostility towards Citywing/Van Air. As I see it we have a foreign airline operating services from IOM using the Citywing brand for marketing purposes. It is not really a new concept and as long as the airline meets the regulatory standards, so be it.
While I can understand that many on the rock would like to see a true Manx airline operating services, I have some difficulties understanding the hostility towards Citywing/Van Air. As I see it we have a foreign airline operating services from IOM using the Citywing brand for marketing purposes. It is not really a new concept and as long as the airline meets the regulatory standards, so be it.
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virginblue, if the reality is what you describe then it would be acceptable. However the reality is someone setting up an airline who stated that they didn't want to be regulated. That lack of financial/operational oversight can kill passengers.
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The 'hostility' towards Citywing exists because it exploits a loophole in regulation. They have to satisfy none of the rules that apply to Eastern et al in regards respect of an AOC. They avoid ATOL rules because of aircraft size. I remember on the Manx2 website, they boasted they could operate in weather conditions that bigger aircraft couldn't. It was precisely that 'have a go' approach that contributed to the accident in Cork, and yesterday's incident has worryingly similar features.
@Virginblue. No hostility towards Van Air whatsoever. They are a legitimate company operating planes in accordance with their license as governed by the Bulgarian CAA.
What people have an issue with is the set up employed by Manx2/Citywing, whereby they pretend to be an airline to anyone who will buy tickets with them until something goes wrong (i.e. Cork crash) where suddenly it was nothing to do with them and everything needed to be referred to Flightline - the airline that actually operated the service. They are just a ticket seller and nothing else. It's akin to buying a ticket from expedia/onthebeach/trivago or whoever but the aircraft also turning up in their colours and everything branded as though they were a legitimate AOC holder.
Incidentally, as far as I know, this exact set up (Virtual Airline) is banned by the UK CAA due to the exact issues which people have raised on this thread which is why they are only able to operate out of the Isle of Man.
Edit: Sorry Toon22 we were obviously typing the same at the same time!
What people have an issue with is the set up employed by Manx2/Citywing, whereby they pretend to be an airline to anyone who will buy tickets with them until something goes wrong (i.e. Cork crash) where suddenly it was nothing to do with them and everything needed to be referred to Flightline - the airline that actually operated the service. They are just a ticket seller and nothing else. It's akin to buying a ticket from expedia/onthebeach/trivago or whoever but the aircraft also turning up in their colours and everything branded as though they were a legitimate AOC holder.
Incidentally, as far as I know, this exact set up (Virtual Airline) is banned by the UK CAA due to the exact issues which people have raised on this thread which is why they are only able to operate out of the Isle of Man.
Edit: Sorry Toon22 we were obviously typing the same at the same time!
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Planedrive. Indeed we were! You make an interesting point about operations from the Isle of Man. I assume the CAA were able to intervene because the flight in question was destined for a U.K. airport.