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BIRMINGHAM - 6

Old 17th Dec 2016, 09:56
  #4341 (permalink)  
 
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The problem was all the FlyBe Dash 8 and a couple of Stobart ATR's were holding low i.e. below FL100 and the RVR's were up and down.
The true Cat 3 aircraft came in high i.e over FL100 and it was an ATC nightmare trying to get them down hence a couple went to Manchester (MON & RYR)

B-KQZ Cathay in BHX this morning - nice !
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Old 17th Dec 2016, 14:53
  #4342 (permalink)  
 
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Just an Idea

As the traffic levels have increased, is it worth looking at establishing different Holding Areas within the CTA to cater for differentiated STARS for CAT1/2 and CAT 3 equipped/crew validated aircraft. (not just Brum by the way).

I bet this is going to be unpopular; Airspace limitations, ATC complexity issues etc (lots !) ; but last night's complications illustrate a capacity problem re organisation of controlled Airspace around this airfield and Brum is not that big yet.

Luton & Stansted "seem" as stated earlier,to have services predominantly provided by B738 & Airbus; a relatively homogeneous selection of equipment. Economics of course.

I bet the situation applies more widely: Do the likes of MAN,FRA or AMS have differential routings for aircraft related to landing minima. (LHR is not typical of what I have in mind - Minimum size of traffic.)

CAT III

Last edited by CATIII-NDB; 17th Dec 2016 at 15:00. Reason: STARS
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Old 17th Dec 2016, 15:49
  #4343 (permalink)  
 
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BHX does have quite a few holds that it can use, and the problem of different aircraft having different minima cannot be new.Without having all of the traffic replays to hand it will be difficult to determine what the problem was but I am sure the operators will be having a talk to the atc unit at the airport to see what can be improved on. Does anybody know the maximum number of aircraft that were holding and where they were holding? Perhaps a bit of stack swapping would have helped?
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Old 17th Dec 2016, 18:20
  #4344 (permalink)  
 
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On Fri 16th Dec between 20:00 and 21:45 there were up to 15 aircraft holding at one time, split between GROVE, CHASE and WELIN.

The Met Office failed to put any mention of fog on the BHX TAF for the early part of that night, which could have warned crews in advance to carry more fuel for holding and could have pre-warned ATC

The fiasco was caused by a combination of; fog not forecast, a large number of inbounds, full ILS only available on the one end that had the worst RVRs and a mix of aircraft in the hold requiring a range of different minimum RVRs. At one point there were two aircraft diverting away due to low fuel, with one aircraft diverting in from East Midlands who got a fairly quick approach! Also, Manchester and London were not very co-operative when BHX aircraft requested diverts away, probably because they were at full stretch too

London and Birmingham ATC did their best, but were clearly struggling at times with the situation, a situation that has probably never occurred before

Lots to be learned from this and hopefully this situation will not happen again
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Old 17th Dec 2016, 20:23
  #4345 (permalink)  
 
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B-KQZ Cathay in BHX this morning - nice !
for the spotters maybe, bit of a recovery nightmare, but it got sorted!
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Old 18th Dec 2016, 00:18
  #4346 (permalink)  
 
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Diversions

I won't comment on Friday night too much as I am simply not qualified but I am sure lessons will be learned and I can sort of echo what jon01 has said that I have never come across an event quite like it.

As for last night and today in general - wow. Yes some negative aspects but on the whole absolutely brilliant - diversions from 10 different airfields including military encompassing a C5 Galaxy, C17, C130, 747, B77W, A332 and the same airliner diverting in twice (Air Moldova) plus several bizjets.

It was clearly a stretch at times but overall it was sorted, quite a day.

It is often said passenger wise BHX suffers due to the proximity of London and Manchester but occasionally it also gains from its location and today was one of those days. Simply fascinating all day long and beats Christmas shopping any day.

Pete
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Old 18th Dec 2016, 17:32
  #4347 (permalink)  
 
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Olton Pete

I can only echo your comments about Friday Nights events. I too am unqualified to comment. I only very intermittently looked at FR24 to get an idea of what was happening at about 22.00 (See my previous post 16/12/2016).

Thanks to Jon01 for his explanation of events. I have used the Airport as a passenger 20-30 times over the last 30 years (not the last 18 I might add) and I feel as a professional,(not a Pilot or infrastructural Engineer) that technical infrastructure support and development at this facility (amongst others I might add ), has not kept place with the increasing demands placed upon the facility. All credit without reservation, to everyone involved for maintaining a safe outcome.

The lengthening of the Runway and BHX's geographical location: as well as the weather (poorly forecast) and the total UK Air traffic load; make situations where those holes in the Cheddar, line up; more likely. Think about Jan and Feb to come.

Friday 16th was a warning: The prolonged loss of the ILS at the 33 end may have made things a lot worse.Operational input by someone better informed than me is needed here.

It's legitimate to ask if the timing and scale of the remedial work was [unduly] influenced by commercial income to the Airport company.

The "Lessons will be learned platitudes" seem to be inadequate in the circumstances.
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Old 19th Dec 2016, 18:33
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Eurowings will launch 6 weekly flights to VIE next summer
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Old 19th Dec 2016, 20:55
  #4349 (permalink)  
 
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Now showing in google flights from Sunday 26th March :-


EW5892 VIE-BHX 1300-1430 Sun
EW5892 VIE-BHX 1715-1845 Mon, Wed-Fri
EW5892 VIE-BHX 1735-1905 Tue


EW5893 BHX-VIE 1510-1830 Sun
EW5893 BHX-VIE 1930-2250 Mon, Wed-Fri
EW5893 BHX-VIE 1945-2305 Tue


good news great to see Vienna being served
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Old 19th Dec 2016, 22:24
  #4350 (permalink)  
 
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Is their any truth in the rumour of BHX direct to Austria's second city Graz with British Midland?
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Old 19th Dec 2016, 22:32
  #4351 (permalink)  
 
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Graz

Lassie

A possibility, especially if search Graz & JLR - could be 2 + 2 = 5 or could be something in it.

Good to see Vienna back and at a decent frequency as long as you don't mind getting into Vienna late.

Hi CATIII-NDB

Nothing more to add re the ILS 33 but hopefully things will become a bit clearer in the New Year.

Pete
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Old 19th Dec 2016, 23:06
  #4352 (permalink)  
 
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OP

Thanks OP - A Msg that the NOTAM Dates Re the 33 ILS GP O/S have been extended: posted elsewhere. I hope its resolved soon.

Not to mention the LUT restrictions as well ? CAT IIIB downgraded to CATIIIA

Thanks

CATIII
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Old 20th Dec 2016, 19:30
  #4353 (permalink)  
 
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Graz

Second new Austrian service in two days BMIR to Graz bookable.

Twice a week Monday & Friday from 27 February.

BM1401 0730 departure BHX arrives back 12.40 Monday ER4
BM1405 11:25 departure BHX arrives back 16:35 Friday ER4

So BHX based and three and a bit days on the ground!!!! Only joking.

I think we can determine from these schedules a sponsored service me thinks.

Bookable for a kings ransom.

Pete
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 16:10
  #4354 (permalink)  
 
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Pete - the bmir website doesn't list Graz as a destination (yet). In the past I've seen that the first day routes go on sale, the cheapest fares quoted are stupidly high (essentially a fully refundable fare only someone desperate would buy), only for more realistic fares to appear a day or two later - presumably down to some sort of IT systems issue. Is it perhaps possible that BHX-GRZ appears with more sensible fares in a few days time ?
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 16:41
  #4355 (permalink)  
 
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I believe the Graz flight is being operated for Jaguar Land Rover as it connects two facilities they have.
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 17:11
  #4356 (permalink)  
 
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Graz

BA318, you are absolutely right, my neighbour works for JLR and goes to Graz at very least once a month. I hope some decent 'leisure' fares do become available, as it's a lovely city to visit.


Very happy VIE is finally back on the routes served from BHX, this used to do very well in terms of loads (no idea of yield) when served by BA/Maersk (albeit on a much smaller aircraft....I hope this route can sustain an A320 long term).


HEL and RIX would be nice now but in terms of European capitals, BHX has currently got nearly all other realistic ones covered, a huge improvement on the situation even just 5 years ago.
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 21:08
  #4357 (permalink)  
 
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Happy Christmas from Paul Kehoe !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezAQ...Q#action=share
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Old 22nd Dec 2016, 19:31
  #4358 (permalink)  
 
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HEL and RIX would be nice now but in terms of European capitals, BHX has currently got nearly all other realistic ones covered, a huge improvement on the situation even just 5 years ago.

Oslo is the big one that's missing

Also Geneva year round, plus Valencia would be a nice addition too
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Old 22nd Dec 2016, 20:03
  #4359 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Wish List

GayFriendly

How about Rotterdam...........oops poor taste as flybe have chopped it from early January and Manchester as well.

Didn't see that one coming............oh wait a minute.

Quite severe cuts from Flybe this January, happens to a certain extent each year but this one is up there as a bad one.

DJ6 -Cheers it was a bit tongue in cheek and I am sure they will calm down a little in due course

Diversion day last Saturday

With permission of the photographer a link to some pictures - note the C5 on taxyway T and the use of the remotes. Pretty good day for an airfield not that blessed with a lot of space.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/antono...7676694109660/

Pete

Last edited by OltonPete; 22nd Dec 2016 at 20:08. Reason: extra link
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Old 30th Dec 2016, 23:27
  #4360 (permalink)  
 
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Diversions

Another diversion day and although BHX didn't quite accommodate all it was another good effort. Three BA City Flyer went to Manchester at least two to East Mids and one to Bristol which I am sure would have possibly come to BHX.

This time diverts from London City, Southampton, Gatwick, Stansted, Luton, East Mids, Exeter, Cardiff in the last 24 hours, possibly as many as 30 counting bizjets although some of these seem to have filed direct BHX and might not get listed as such.

Nothing as taxing as C5's or 747's but still with the holiday period, only one airline handler it could not have been easy.

Does anyone know if BHX did limit the numbers due coaches or staffing which of course would be understandable.

Emirates

Just one more day for the switch between EK39 and EK37 with the A388, it will be interesting to see how this affects the overall figures but on the face of it, a smart move as EK37 is still consistently showing the higher load factor.

Pete
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