MANCHESTER - 9
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Busbar,
Depends on where you are coming from and which way the winds are on the day.
For a fairly decent guide (I would say that; I wrote it!) go to the pinkfroot web site. From the menu at the top of the page, click on Spotting, then Plane spotting. Choose Manchester and away you go, complete with Google Earth locations etc.
I say it depends on which way the wind is as, in the case of an easterly wind, you might want to watch the landings at the western end of 05R.
I will PM a direct link to the relevant page.
Oops! No I won't. Can't!
Depends on where you are coming from and which way the winds are on the day.
For a fairly decent guide (I would say that; I wrote it!) go to the pinkfroot web site. From the menu at the top of the page, click on Spotting, then Plane spotting. Choose Manchester and away you go, complete with Google Earth locations etc.
I say it depends on which way the wind is as, in the case of an easterly wind, you might want to watch the landings at the western end of 05R.
I will PM a direct link to the relevant page.
Oops! No I won't. Can't!
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Whilst AGAIN the airport are slapping each other on the back suggesting growth is down to #flyManchester could the simple fact be that the majority of that growth is down to nothing more than a switch of a few flights from Liverpool by RYR
Liverpool down 7% !
Liverpool down 7% !
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But LPL is 7% lower on a base of 400k and MAN is 6% up on 2.26m. Combined, that is growth of 111k passengers and 4%. Put another way, MAN grew by 141k passengers and LPL lost just 30k.
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#flyManchester could the simple fact be that the majority of that growth is down to nothing more than a switch of a few flights from Liverpool by RYR
However, as explained by northwest, the decline at LPL only benefits MAN in a small way compared to actual growth.
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Well cearly hence the caveat "majority".......
I believe there was some mainstream advertising in South Yorkshire but can anybody actually define the #flymanchester campaign ?
If the campaign was targeted at specific routes eg Riyadh , Charlotte ? Maybe we could then specifically identify the benefits of said campaign and say it was a great success but in the absence of a more scientific data how do we determine it's a swap from Liverpool, a general improvement in the economy or indeed this campaign.
For the record I have seen and heard nothing on Merseyside.
I believe there was some mainstream advertising in South Yorkshire but can anybody actually define the #flymanchester campaign ?
If the campaign was targeted at specific routes eg Riyadh , Charlotte ? Maybe we could then specifically identify the benefits of said campaign and say it was a great success but in the absence of a more scientific data how do we determine it's a swap from Liverpool, a general improvement in the economy or indeed this campaign.
For the record I have seen and heard nothing on Merseyside.
Last edited by Bagso; 16th Aug 2014 at 06:58.
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Adverts in South Yorkshire and The Midlands are to be applauded as clearly Manchester relies rightly or wrongly on the catchment of other airports unable to sustain these services.
Which brings us neatly of course to Scotland !
Any thoughts on the effect of next months vote with reference specifically to Manchester !
If Yes our domestic flights become International ones !
Imposition of border controls !
A new bi lateral with Scotland !
APD !
Manchester Airspace controlled by a "Foreign Country"
Are there any other changes ?
Does Manchester have a strategy in terms of the effect of a Scotland vote ..... yes or no ?
There is a comment by the Scottish Independence party that they wish to reduce the reliance/dependence on flights to England notably Heathrow but presumably that may also effect Manchester ?
As an aside incredible that to a Man (and Woman) all the Scottish MPs do not want to use other hubs and want many more direct flights, whilst they may be deluded contrast that with the views of OUR own local MPs ! (.....yes you Mr Brady)
(Odd also that Davies still sees a 3rd Runway as key to domestic connectivity, I wonder how much of that connectivity is due to be allocated to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness).
Trying to "unpick" this either way and asses its effects will be entertaining.
Even if there is a no vote there seems to be a swathe of opinion suggesting a raft of legislation will move North in order to appease.
If APD is among that legislation many MPs and political commentators have suggested they (Scotland) will immediately reduce by 50% and then scrap it !
The reality of office may change things of course but another sqeeze ?
PS apologies if a light hearted quote from Private Eye upset those of a sensitive nature I do of course apologies unreservedly, a retraction has duly been made, let us also not give any organisation on here the oxygen of publicity, even if it is as esteemed as .............. !
Which brings us neatly of course to Scotland !
Any thoughts on the effect of next months vote with reference specifically to Manchester !
If Yes our domestic flights become International ones !
Imposition of border controls !
A new bi lateral with Scotland !
APD !
Manchester Airspace controlled by a "Foreign Country"
Are there any other changes ?
Does Manchester have a strategy in terms of the effect of a Scotland vote ..... yes or no ?
There is a comment by the Scottish Independence party that they wish to reduce the reliance/dependence on flights to England notably Heathrow but presumably that may also effect Manchester ?
As an aside incredible that to a Man (and Woman) all the Scottish MPs do not want to use other hubs and want many more direct flights, whilst they may be deluded contrast that with the views of OUR own local MPs ! (.....yes you Mr Brady)
(Odd also that Davies still sees a 3rd Runway as key to domestic connectivity, I wonder how much of that connectivity is due to be allocated to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness).
Trying to "unpick" this either way and asses its effects will be entertaining.
Even if there is a no vote there seems to be a swathe of opinion suggesting a raft of legislation will move North in order to appease.
If APD is among that legislation many MPs and political commentators have suggested they (Scotland) will immediately reduce by 50% and then scrap it !
The reality of office may change things of course but another sqeeze ?
PS apologies if a light hearted quote from Private Eye upset those of a sensitive nature I do of course apologies unreservedly, a retraction has duly been made, let us also not give any organisation on here the oxygen of publicity, even if it is as esteemed as .............. !
Last edited by Bagso; 16th Aug 2014 at 07:50.
According to another forum the mysterious new longhaul route for next summer has now been postponed indefinitely "due to shortage of aircraft". Apparently the route was to have been Delta to Detroit, as some on here had predicted.
Delta has decided instead that it can make more profit by retiring four 747-400s earlier than planned from this autumn. Therefore a number of 767/777 frames are being redeployed from North Atlantic to Pacific routes to replace those 747s on services to Japan and the Far East.
Delta has decided instead that it can make more profit by retiring four 747-400s earlier than planned from this autumn. Therefore a number of 767/777 frames are being redeployed from North Atlantic to Pacific routes to replace those 747s on services to Japan and the Far East.
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Re DL to DTW, it's really no surprise although I do accept, unlike a certain poster, that it was planned to happen. What is unfortunate in these situations is that a retraction of a rumour is not always made as soon as it could be or without prompting.
Well, according to comments by a senior executive in a recent article, MAN is in a period of sustained growth based not just on what's happened but also on what's in the pipeline. Whether that's true of longhaul for next summer is looking doubtful at this stage, and in terms of TATL, this winter is disappointing. At least there is CX to improve the picture.
Well, according to comments by a senior executive in a recent article, MAN is in a period of sustained growth based not just on what's happened but also on what's in the pipeline. Whether that's true of longhaul for next summer is looking doubtful at this stage, and in terms of TATL, this winter is disappointing. At least there is CX to improve the picture.
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Bagso, with reference to the Scottish referendum, I think you will find that Newcastle will be much more badly hit than Manchester. Scottish folk travel down to Manchester because a) MAN flights are so much cheaper that the cost of travelling makes no difference and b) direct flights are not available. B is becoming less and less of an issue with the additional flights being added at EDI and GLA.
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re Scottish referendum:
"is becoming less and less of an issue with the additional flights being added at EDI and GLA"
Quite. And if this trend continues, there is a slight squeeze on MAN with less transferring passengers. However, if APD were abolished in Scotland and led to cheaper fares for Scottish flights, the risk surely is that pax from the North of England who would normally use MAN for longhaul might be attracted to go in the other direction. It would be similar to the BFS/DUB situation, wouldn't it, with the possibility at least that hitherto profitable routes could become marginal and marginal services no longer viable. I'm not saying this would happen but it's not an impossible scenario.
"is becoming less and less of an issue with the additional flights being added at EDI and GLA"
Quite. And if this trend continues, there is a slight squeeze on MAN with less transferring passengers. However, if APD were abolished in Scotland and led to cheaper fares for Scottish flights, the risk surely is that pax from the North of England who would normally use MAN for longhaul might be attracted to go in the other direction. It would be similar to the BFS/DUB situation, wouldn't it, with the possibility at least that hitherto profitable routes could become marginal and marginal services no longer viable. I'm not saying this would happen but it's not an impossible scenario.
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Horses for courses Graham.....
Family of four off to Australia
"massive hit on invoice Or a 3.5 hour trip to EDI"
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I'm sure like me Mr MANFOD you wait with bated breath to know what is actually "IN" that pipeline, at least we have Funchal !
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see below review of the Indian Conference at OT last week.
Interesting facts and figures for those who study this sort of thing
7.2m people live within 50miles of Manchester, thats large than some countries (Scotland ? cough )
http://origin.misc.pagesuite.com/pdf...b99e462927.pdf
Family of four off to Australia
"massive hit on invoice Or a 3.5 hour trip to EDI"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure like me Mr MANFOD you wait with bated breath to know what is actually "IN" that pipeline, at least we have Funchal !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
see below review of the Indian Conference at OT last week.
Interesting facts and figures for those who study this sort of thing
7.2m people live within 50miles of Manchester, thats large than some countries (Scotland ? cough )
http://origin.misc.pagesuite.com/pdf...b99e462927.pdf
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MANFOD, agreed, but I think that with the MAN catchment, then thingfs would probably be ok. NCL is very likely to be the biggest loser, unless APD was abolished for long haul in the NE England - which would be unlikely.
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Re Conference on India:
Apologies if I've missed it Bagso, but the only reference to the airport I spotted was in that facts summary.
"It has an international airport with more than 200 direct flight destinations"
Was there any mention of the need/desire for direct flights to India?
Of course, it may be that MAN feel that the loss of pax to India from the direct service from BHX is less than it would do harm to the MEB3 and perhaps other carriers such as LH at MAN through loss of transfer pax if we had our own direct flights, although I'm not convinced by that argument. (you could argue the same about Hong Kong). And as others have indicated, MAN's opportunities lie in a different part of that huge country than BHX. Surely, a direct service would attract new passengers for the airport so I'm surprised if the need wasn't emphasised - but maybe you're not surprised Bagso?
GrahamK, apologies for not identifying you with my earlier quote and thanks for your reply. You may well be right about NCL, particularly as regards its EK flight.
Apologies if I've missed it Bagso, but the only reference to the airport I spotted was in that facts summary.
"It has an international airport with more than 200 direct flight destinations"
Was there any mention of the need/desire for direct flights to India?
Of course, it may be that MAN feel that the loss of pax to India from the direct service from BHX is less than it would do harm to the MEB3 and perhaps other carriers such as LH at MAN through loss of transfer pax if we had our own direct flights, although I'm not convinced by that argument. (you could argue the same about Hong Kong). And as others have indicated, MAN's opportunities lie in a different part of that huge country than BHX. Surely, a direct service would attract new passengers for the airport so I'm surprised if the need wasn't emphasised - but maybe you're not surprised Bagso?
GrahamK, apologies for not identifying you with my earlier quote and thanks for your reply. You may well be right about NCL, particularly as regards its EK flight.
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Egyptair
Continuing the gloomy theme, I thought someone had suggested that MS flights were back on for this winter. I'm aware of the temporary licence nonsense whereby they were only reinstated very late for last winter, but do we know for sure whether the route had been dropped completely, suspended for the winter or still awaiting renewal of the temporary licence? They are not showing on the web site if you put dates in for Nov./ Dec or next summer.
Continuing the gloomy theme, I thought someone had suggested that MS flights were back on for this winter. I'm aware of the temporary licence nonsense whereby they were only reinstated very late for last winter, but do we know for sure whether the route had been dropped completely, suspended for the winter or still awaiting renewal of the temporary licence? They are not showing on the web site if you put dates in for Nov./ Dec or next summer.
Last edited by MANFOD; 16th Aug 2014 at 10:44.
MANFOD - Egyptair flights for the Winter are still showing in our booking system at work, albeit all dates are still closed for sale. So maybe they are still waiting for approval.
I don't know what the bilateral issue is, but this delay in sales every season is no doubt causing potential passengers to go elsewhere - full marks to MS for hanging in as long as they have. It seems a little strange that here we have an airline that actually wants to offer service to a UK airport other than LHR, yet they are made to jump through these hoops each season.
I don't know what the bilateral issue is, but this delay in sales every season is no doubt causing potential passengers to go elsewhere - full marks to MS for hanging in as long as they have. It seems a little strange that here we have an airline that actually wants to offer service to a UK airport other than LHR, yet they are made to jump through these hoops each season.
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MS
...so why is the account manager not onto the MEN claiming foul play OR onto the local MP asking for immediate representation with whoever is responsible in Whitehall.
Play the wounded party....!
Blame bias in the South.... even it's not true !
Appeal to the Chancellor !
Give the papers a story and things will happen.
Sorry there are times when you have to play a bit cute !
Yet again total inertia.
Is there an arrogance that as one airline goes it doesn't matter as another will come along ?
There appears on the surface to be no desire, passion or will to get the job done.
...so why is the account manager not onto the MEN claiming foul play OR onto the local MP asking for immediate representation with whoever is responsible in Whitehall.
Play the wounded party....!
Blame bias in the South.... even it's not true !
Appeal to the Chancellor !
Give the papers a story and things will happen.
Sorry there are times when you have to play a bit cute !
Yet again total inertia.
Is there an arrogance that as one airline goes it doesn't matter as another will come along ?
There appears on the surface to be no desire, passion or will to get the job done.
Last edited by Bagso; 16th Aug 2014 at 17:22.