SOUTHEND - 3 The new beginning

[Ernest Lanc's]

Originally Posted by tws123

But by the same token we don't want to put all our eggs in the same
basket!

I agree..But there are two airlines flying to the same basket..I know if BB put Thomson in direct competition with Jet2 on the Palma route at Blackpool in summer, I would not be best chuffed..Jet2 saw Thompson of in the winter on the Alicante route, but would hate to see BB push Jet2 to far.
Competition is OK, so long as there is enough pax to go round, or like at BLK we have Manx2.Aer Arann and Jet2, all flying different routes..Easy have been good for SEN, for the time being I reckon Stobart would be better finding airlines interested in other routes that easy do not serve.

Originally Posted by pug

Thomson and easyjet serve different types of passenger. I dont see the problem?

To the same destination though, don't forget you can book flights only on the Thompson website.

[tws123]

Thomson/First Choice

Whatever happens it will be an interesting battle between the two. All I can say is that by having another operator at SEN such as Thomson, could lead to more destinations and different ones at that.

[Ernest Lanc's]

could lead to more destinations and different ones at that.

Hope so..Maybe the routes bing in the summer will make the difference..It hit a nerve with me with our experience with Thompson at BLK, that was in the winter though.

[8674planes]

I'm looking forward to seeing the Volotea Boeing 717's at Southend. It will be good to compare and see it with the OLT Fokker 100's if they make a return next year!

[pug]

..I know if BB put Thomson in direct competition with Jet2 on the Palma route at Blackpool in summer, I would not be best chuffed

Jet2 are different to easyjet, and closer to Thomson these days.

To the same destination though, don't forget you can book flights only on the Thompson website.

Yes you can, but they wont be after those people. I think you know that...

[tws123]

OLT Express

Just checked the OLT website and tickets for Dresden are on sale for the Christmas period (20th December 2012 to 6 January 2013) and then from March 23rd to March 28th 2013 daily, and Saarbrucken is also on sale from March 23rd to March 30th 2013 operating on Tues, Thurs and Sat.

[mikkie4]

volotea/SEN

what destinations could a 717 get to from SEN that are not covered by EASYJET?

[Ernest Lanc's]

Originally Posted by pug

Yes you can, but they wont be after those people. I think you know
that...

My point was that if Thomson is flying to Palma out of SEN, then customers can look and book a flight only on the Thomson website..That could be at the expense of Easy, if the Thomson prices are cheaper.

Not saying that will happen, but with a resurgent SEN due to Easy, maybe Stobart has miscalculated on this one.

The danger is that there is not enough pax to serve more than one airline on the Palma route.
Then again, if there is - Then Stobarts gamble will have paid of and some, I hope that is the case. The gamble is, if Thomson stands on Easys toes IMO.

[Ernest Lanc's]

Originally Posted by Barling Magna

Does a 717 have the range to get to Corfu from SEN....?

Yes - A 717 has a range of 2, 370 miles.
Boeing 717 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While Corfu is just 1,233 miles.
Source - Internet.

[North West]

Jet2 are different to easyjet, and closer to Thomson
these days.

300,000 package holiday customers out of 3.6m passenegrs uplifted would suggest otherwise.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by Ernest Lanc's

Yes - A 717 has a range of 2, 370.5311 miles.
Boeing 717 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While Corfu is just 1,233 miles.
Source - Internet.

2370.5311 miles, eh? Some pretty severe spurious accuracy there. These guys (who might know nearly as much about the aircraft as Wikipedia does ) suggest the basic version has a max range of 1430 nm (i.e. payload restricted). Great circle (not airways) SEN-CFU is 1076 nm. I'm not sure the beancounters would give that the thumbs up: a long sector, probably payload-limited, so unlikely to be particularly lucrative, if it even breaks even.

Payload-range chart is on page 23 here, BTW, if you want to get on it. The Volotea aircraft are 114,000 lb MTOW, I believe.

[pug]

North West, fair point, but they are certainly aiming to head that way.

My point still stands however, that easyjet and Thomson will likely be after different types of customer.

[Ernest Lanc's]

Cyrano
Ouch - I have edited my post to get rid on that typo. well sloppy copy and pasting.
I took the metric range from Wikipedia and converted to miles...Yep point taken on 'payload restricted' - Would reach Corfu though.

[davidjohnson6]

Apart from routes flown by Easyjet, perhaps Thomson at SEN with a 717 might look at Pisa, Naples, Sardinia, Croatian coast or Menorca ?

[pamann]

perhaps Thomson at SEN with a 717 might look at Pisa, Naples, Sardinia, Croatian coast or Menorca ?

Menorca maybe, but why the other routes which are mostly just served out of the LGW & MAN bases only? Why on earth would Thomson operate to these places ex SEN when they don't even operate from their other regional bases?

And why are we assuming any future routes to be flown by 717? Surely if things bode well here you'd have more chance of seeing such routings as STN-CFU-SEN-CFU-STN with their own metal (if such a route is even possible).

Also worth bearing in mind that Thomson is a tour operator selling 'package holidays' above just flight only. So comparing their route like for like with the EZY service is pretty pointless in my opinion.

[Tagron]

This discussion on the capabilities of the Volotea B 717 serves to highlight the difficulties inherent in making this sort of assessment without access to source material.

The B717 like other modern designs comes in a variety of weight variants. There are two engine thrust level variants available at 18500lbs and 21000 lbs. It is the engine thrust rating above all else that will determine payload/range performance from a limiting runway such as at SEN.

It looks to me that the basic aircraft (18500lb thrust) would not achieve SEN-PMI nonstop with 125 pax and baggage due to runway performance, at least not for scheduleplanning purposes. The 21000lb thrust High Gross Weight (HGW) aircraft would be almost unrestricted at SEN up to the maximum weight of this variant of 121000lbs (54900kgs)so it must be this variant they are proposing to use for SEN-PMI. On the other hand the MTOW quoted by Cyrano (114000/51800kgs) suggests a weight appropriate to the basic version. Of course it could be the Volotea aircraft is really the HGW version with MTOW deliberately restricted to reduce landing and en route charges, a common airline practice.

So, assuming the latter case, SEN-PMI looks a reasonable maximum full payload distance for planning purposes. Any greater range would require a higher certificated MTOW which could add several hundred miles to range radius, and that would then encompass Corfu Malta and further. But we really need more comprehensive data on the specification of the Volotea B717 before speculating on what other routes might be possible.

[Expressflight]

According to the Spanish civil register the Volotea B717s are powered by BR715-C1-30 engines of 21,000lb thrust.

I think we can probably put this "will they be payload limited at SEN" argument to bed as it appears that they won't be, even at ISA +15.

[Phileas Fogg]

The B717 is/was a modern design???

And there was me thinking it was merely a stretched and re-engined DC9!!!

[tophat27dt]

Does anybody have a breakdown of the October passenger figures, as usually supplied to this forum each month. Thank you!

[tophat27dt]

Was the Titan B757 the airliner you was referring to? If so, is it based at SEN for charters, or stored for the winter? Thanks.