New Thames Airport for London
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Jabird:
He has never had any impact on the Lib Dems, and vice versa!
He has never had any impact on the Lib Dems, and vice versa!
In addition, the Sunday Times knocked out one of their ministers, via some speeding escapade, and cornered their economic guru who was making absurd boasts to giggly teenagers. Didn't see much of him after that.
Jabird:
if Murdoch did take any view on airport expansion, he'd be backing the most economically sensible option, which is Heathrow.
if Murdoch did take any view on airport expansion, he'd be backing the most economically sensible option, which is Heathrow.
Quite obviously you are wrong on that, otherwise the Sunday Times would not run an editorial as well as a full page spread promoting Silver-Boris airport.
You can plug your ears and shout as much as you like, but since that is the prerogative of kids, you are not doing your case and your argument much good.
.
Last edited by silverstrata; 9th Sep 2012 at 17:39.
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In addition, the Sunday Times knocked out one of their ministers, via some speeding escapade, and cornered their economic guru who was making absurd boasts to giggly teenagers. Didn't see much of him after that.
Huhne tried to get his wife to take penalty points for him, and resigned over the issue.
Cable is still there, still making a fool out of himself, most recently just this morning, telling us that Heathrow isn't even an option in Davies' review.
Quite obviously you are wrong on that
You can plug your ears and shout as much as you like, but since that is the prerogative of kids
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Boris, Foster, if you are listening
If these plans do get any further attention, someone will have to do some more work on the original drawings.
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Quote: "There is even an editorial endorsing the airport, which demonstrates that Murdoch is now onboard. Since Murdoch controls most political parties, this is a significant development, that Cameron would do well to watch."
So it's Silver-Boris-MURDOCH airport now is it?
Quote: "You failed here to answer the question, and you also failed to see the point I was making. That is two failings in one post, not bad for you.
Not bad, is it! Doubtless am not alone in this!
Who knows what points you are trying to make, Silver!
Interesting and entertaining as they are, they have little to do with rwy capacity in the south east!
Quote: The question was, at what percentage does Obama cease to be 'black' and suddenly become 'white'?"
Who knows, who cares?
It would probably be easier to answer the question if we were talking about the late great Michael Jackson.
Quote: "Obviously 50-50 is still black to you, so what percentage of blackness makes someone white? Its a simple question."
Why do you write: "50-50 is still black to you"? How do you draw that conclusion? How could you possibly know?
It could be black, on the other hand, it could be white. Being really radical, it could be half black and half white. Who can say?
Wasn't commenting on "blackness" or "whiteness", just listing some facts.
Do try to keep up, Silver!
So it's Silver-Boris-MURDOCH airport now is it?
Quote: "You failed here to answer the question, and you also failed to see the point I was making. That is two failings in one post, not bad for you.
Not bad, is it! Doubtless am not alone in this!
Who knows what points you are trying to make, Silver!
Interesting and entertaining as they are, they have little to do with rwy capacity in the south east!
Quote: The question was, at what percentage does Obama cease to be 'black' and suddenly become 'white'?"
Who knows, who cares?
It would probably be easier to answer the question if we were talking about the late great Michael Jackson.
Quote: "Obviously 50-50 is still black to you, so what percentage of blackness makes someone white? Its a simple question."
Why do you write: "50-50 is still black to you"? How do you draw that conclusion? How could you possibly know?
It could be black, on the other hand, it could be white. Being really radical, it could be half black and half white. Who can say?
Wasn't commenting on "blackness" or "whiteness", just listing some facts.
Do try to keep up, Silver!
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 9th Sep 2012 at 19:49.
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Quite obviously you are wrong on that, otherwise the Sunday Times would not run an editorial as well as a full page spread promoting Silver-Boris airport.
This coalition government is coming off the rails, I agree with Silverstrata that people are disengaged with politics. Able people get more money in real jobs and ambitious pond life gets into politics. Once in power, they realise that they are in well over their heads and worse, even the most able are constrained by the EU, international law and human rights legislation. There's nothing wrong with any of that in isolation but it does mean taken together, our democracy and society struggles to get anything done. Too many vested interests alas. I have no idea how to fix it either, that's the scary bit.
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Skip:
In all seriousness, nobody reads (the Sunday Times) anymore. It's peripheral to this argument, and the level of journalism at the best of papers is sadly lacking intellectual rigour and knowledge of the subject matter.
In all seriousness, nobody reads (the Sunday Times) anymore. It's peripheral to this argument, and the level of journalism at the best of papers is sadly lacking intellectual rigour and knowledge of the subject matter.
Agreed, the wheels came of journalistic media wisdom and integrity in 1997, when - well, when Blair and Co proved you could run a nation on smoke and mirrors (for a while, at least, until someone starts adding up the bills). However, everyone in Fleet Street joined in this game of national charades, while the BBC became their high priest and cheerleader. Everything was written in doublespeak, and the obvious truth could go to hell.
However. Having said that, the Sunday Times is still as good as it gets in the UK, and so its views and editorials still carry weight in the corridors of power. Cameron will be fretting at this very minute, that Boris has captured an important lever of power, and an important national decision. Cameron has chosen to fudge yet again, thinking that was the safe and 'popular' option, while Boris has run off with the Olympic torch and is about to light up the stadium.
Remember that Cameron has presided over Murdoch's embarrassment at a government hearing, and has presided over the arrest and prosecution of Murdoch's number one carrot-top. Thus Murdoch is hardly going to be a key player in Cameron's reelection campaign, when a leadership challenge is made. Cameron needs to be checking his six-oclock, because someone from N.I. is bound to be behind him, checking his every move.
And what does all this have to do with Silver-Boris airport? As you probably understand by now, Silver-Boris will primarily be a political rather than a well argued and rigorous commercial-technical decision.
.
Last edited by silverstrata; 9th Sep 2012 at 21:49.
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This coalition government is coming off the rails
Firstly, the re-shuffle was more about kicking Heathrow into touch than building a new runway, whereas they are very much full steam ahead on HS2, with Gillan now "freed" from the cabinet so she can be a lone voice speaking her mind.
Secondly, for the coalition to be broken before 2015 is lose-lose for both concerned. Cameron can hold on until then in the hope there might just be a 0.0001% growth in the economy by then, as people really don't want to vote for Labour, but in the current stalemate, they will give Deadwood Ed a chance.
Paxing All Over The World
If anyone thinks that the Murdoch papers carry any weight any longer - they haven't been reading the papers for the last year.
44% of Londoners would prefer a Silver-Boris Thames airport, against 24% wanting Heathrow expansion
That's because Boris is being strangely quiet on the affect that closing LHR would have on West London. Why Cameron isn't using this in defence of the third runway I dont know. Especially with his chums along the Thames corridor.
Regarding Boris lets get real. He has done well to get where he is and has done that by playing the buffoon. This is something he does quite well and whilst this may help you get into a role that requires a 'personality' such as Mayor, it will not get you into number 10.
Politics now is just about self promotion in order to land lucrative work outside of the political role. Look at Vince Cable, he earns approx £250,000 on the side through after dinner speaking and various consulting roles. Compare this to his actual salary.
The trick is to get your name known as much as possible by being in the headlines whilst in the political job. After this the offers will come in for positions on various boards and media work. Just look at Blair? Once your name starts to fade maybe do a stint again just to get your price up.
Boris has done well out of the Olympics, the job of Mayor has been perfect for him but if he is not careful he will end up in the Big Brother house before number 10.
That's because Boris is being strangely quiet on the affect that closing LHR would have on West London. Why Cameron isn't using this in defence of the third runway I dont know. Especially with his chums along the Thames corridor.
Regarding Boris lets get real. He has done well to get where he is and has done that by playing the buffoon. This is something he does quite well and whilst this may help you get into a role that requires a 'personality' such as Mayor, it will not get you into number 10.
Politics now is just about self promotion in order to land lucrative work outside of the political role. Look at Vince Cable, he earns approx £250,000 on the side through after dinner speaking and various consulting roles. Compare this to his actual salary.
The trick is to get your name known as much as possible by being in the headlines whilst in the political job. After this the offers will come in for positions on various boards and media work. Just look at Blair? Once your name starts to fade maybe do a stint again just to get your price up.
Boris has done well out of the Olympics, the job of Mayor has been perfect for him but if he is not careful he will end up in the Big Brother house before number 10.
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Flexi:
That's because Boris is being strangely quiet on the affect that closing LHR would have on West London.
That's because Boris is being strangely quiet on the affect that closing LHR would have on West London.
That is what they said about the closure of Covent Garden - it would decimate the region, it would become a wasteland, shopkeepers would be going bankrupt within 1km of Covent Garden. etc etc.
What actually happened, is that the region became wealthier than it had ever been - and for some 18 hours a day too, not just the mornings.
.
Last edited by silverstrata; 10th Sep 2012 at 17:51.
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So between closing LHR and wealth aplenty coming to Hounslow, all the blue collar workers in Southall and Hayes who depend on LHR, what happens to them? The winners will be rich incomers, the poor hard worker will pay dearly to keep the noise down in leafy Richmond.
Understand clearly, working at Fantasy Island is beyond the means of most.
Understand clearly, working at Fantasy Island is beyond the means of most.
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The winners will be rich incomers, the poor hard worker will pay dearly to keep the noise down in leafy Richmond.
The winners will be rich incomers, the poor hard worker will pay dearly to keep the noise down in leafy Richmond.
And if you say that these will only be high tech jobs, well that is not strictly true, but this is another problem that the government needs to face up to. The original Silicon Valley was a huge employer of low-tech jobs, until they shipped them all off to China.
But the export of jobs to the East is a government policy, and so the government holds the keys to blue-collar employment as much as they hold the keys to a new airport. But you have to ask yourself why it took a British Labour party to open up the country to unlimited imports manufactured by Chinese slaves, so that all the manual jobs in the UK could be destroyed. As I said before, the upper escallops of the Labour Party did not give a f*** about British workers or the Labour Party's supporters - all they cared about was their grand scheme of pipe-dream social engineering. That, is where all your blue-collar jobs have gone to.
You will note that in the Iraqi and Syrian conflicts there have been muted calls for sectarian segregation and establishment of separate mini nations - to which the BBC has responded with a steely silence. Why? Because the big dream of the Labour Party was not 'jobs for the workers' or a 'bright future for Britian', but 'pan ethnic multiculturalism' - rammed down your throat with threats of the PC police knocking on your door if you objected.
Unfortunately, the BBC's and the Labour Party's pipe-dream has crumbled into dust in Iraq and Syria (and much of North Africa), and they are now desperately plugging their ears and shouting 'La, la, la...'.
Face facts, Skippy, the keys to employment and prosperity are with a government's grasp, if only we had a government and prime minister who liked the UK and its people more than they liked their pipe-dreams.
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Silver, surely the benefits of any industrial technology park on the old LHR site would only as part of a 'Heathrow Garden City' idea if the new airport was still sited west of London somewhere further west along the M4 corridor?!
The only reason the technology companies are there is because of the proximity to LHR, if that were to close and a new estuary airport opened then the technology park would need to be in Kent, not Middlesex.
The only reason the technology companies are there is because of the proximity to LHR, if that were to close and a new estuary airport opened then the technology park would need to be in Kent, not Middlesex.
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Silver, you deliberately missed my point. Turning Heathrow into a technology park woud create "new economy" jobs. However, where does that leave our blue collar guys who lost their jobs at Heathrow and cannot afford to relocate to Fantasy Island? On the dole for the rest of their days in many cases I suspect.
What happens to them and quantify the cost to the taxpayer? Skilled immigrants would benefit well in a new technology park, not the blue collar locals.
Your Daily Mail views and wish to be seen as British, even though you despise the road we're on continue to astound!
How long between LHR closure and your gold plated jobs park raining jobs on West London? Quantify please.
What happens to them and quantify the cost to the taxpayer? Skilled immigrants would benefit well in a new technology park, not the blue collar locals.
Your Daily Mail views and wish to be seen as British, even though you despise the road we're on continue to astound!
How long between LHR closure and your gold plated jobs park raining jobs on West London? Quantify please.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 12th Sep 2012 at 10:52.
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silverstrata
Courtesy of Wikipedia entry on EGLL (many other sources available)
No one has yet counted how many other companies rely on being in the Heathrow Corridor for increased local employment.
So, that all looks pretty efficient to me.
Not to mention getting 69,433,230 passengers and 480,906 aircraft movements per year through that space.
Your witness ...
In employment density terms, an airport is not terribly land-efficient.
The airport sustains 76,600 jobs directly and around 116,000 indirectly in the immediate area, and this, together with the large number of global corporations with offices close to the airport, makes Heathrow a modern aerotropolis which contributes an estimated 2.7% to London's total GVA.
... on a site that covers 12.14 square kilometres (4.69 sq mi).
So, that all looks pretty efficient to me.
Not to mention getting 69,433,230 passengers and 480,906 aircraft movements per year through that space.
Your witness ...
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Pax:
... on a site that covers 12.14 square kilometres (4.69 sq mi).
So, that all looks pretty efficient to me.
... on a site that covers 12.14 square kilometres (4.69 sq mi).
So, that all looks pretty efficient to me.
And try comparing that with the square mile in London, or with Canary Wharf.
You are making a comparison between LHR and the vast majority of London, which is nearly all residential. And you are also including offices and hotels in the vicinity, which are not included in your land area figures.
Try comparing LHR with any decent technology and manufacturing park, and you will find the employment and revenues at LHR not nearly so wonderful. And anyway, most of these jobs are not being destroyed, they are being transferred. If anyone cannot arrange to move 30 or so miles down the Thames, they hardly deserve to be employed. I have moved in excess of 17 times, to maintain my profession, so I have little sympathy for someone who cannot be bothered to make an effort.
Whino:
The only reason the technology companies are there is because of the proximity to LHR, if that were to close and a new estuary airport opened then the technology park would need to be in Kent, not Middlesex.
The only reason the technology companies are there is because of the proximity to LHR, if that were to close and a new estuary airport opened then the technology park would need to be in Kent, not Middlesex.
Popycock. So did the Warwick, Oxford and Cambridge Uni technology parks set up near Heathrow? Of course not. They set up in agreeable locations where a large number of quality personnel live.
The old LHR site would be just such an area. Close to the pleasant pastures of Windsor and the Thames valley, plenty of sailing, no aircraft noise, easy commuting to London City, direct Crossrail line to the new Silver-Boris airport only 30 minutes away, no commuting to central London required.
Who would NOT want to be based in the Heathrow Garden Technology Park?
.
Last edited by silverstrata; 12th Sep 2012 at 14:16.
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Who would NOT want to be based in the Heathrow Garden Technology Park?
Whilst discussing the Heathrow Garden Technology Park proposal with friends, we came up with an idea. Could I ask your expert opinion?
What if we could connect the Technology Park to the Global market (China, far east, USA etc) by building an easily accessible hub airport. With long-haul flights served by World class airlines.
Probably manage with about 3 runways at the moment. Then in time expanding to the West. There's great infrastructure already and an almost ideally location for London, the M4 corridor and beyond.
We were certainly impressed with your Technology Park; how about an airport to go with it?
Regards.
Paxing All Over The World
silverstrata
Well - you can't! They do totally different things!!! The really interesting thing is that the two are inter-dependent on each other.
The University tech parks open next to what they are part of - Universities! Other companies open along the M4 corridor to be next/near to Heathrow. Have you seen how many courier and distribution companies there are in the area? Not to mention all the rest.
Just in case you hadn't noticed, Blair was a Tory who pulled the wool over the eyes of a very considerable number of people. As for the BBC: They work on a long, slow cycle and the man who made the big changes in his tenure as Chair of Governors, 1986 to 1996, was:
By the way, did you know that you don't actually have to insult people? Words like 'Popycock' are insulting but perhaps your mummy and daddy didn't teach you proper.
And try comparing that with the square mile in London, or with Canary Wharf.
Popycock. So did the Warwick, Oxford and Cambridge Uni technology parks set up near Heathrow? Of course not. They set up in agreeable locations where a large number of quality personnel live.
... when Blair and Co proved you could run a nation on smoke and mirrors (for a while, at least, until someone starts adding up the bills). However, everyone in Fleet Street joined in this game of national charades, while the BBC became their high priest and cheerleader. Everything was written in doublespeak, and the obvious truth could go to hell.
- Marmaduke Hussey, Baron Hussey of North Bradley who was appointed by the Tories.
- Succeeded by Christopher Bland a Tory politician.
- Then Gavin Davies, he was Chair for three years and was a Labour supporter. In 2005 he set up a $1.35 Billion hedge fund to invest in macroeconomic situations. So he is very New Labour.
- Richard Ryder, Baron Ryder of Wensum was next and another Tory MP
- Next was Michael Grade, Baron Grade of Yarmouth a Conservatife life peer.
- (there were other holders in the move from Governors to Trust)
- Current chair is Christopher Francis Patten, Baron Patten of Barnes, still a Tory.
By the way, did you know that you don't actually have to insult people? Words like 'Popycock' are insulting but perhaps your mummy and daddy didn't teach you proper.
Last edited by PAXboy; 12th Sep 2012 at 16:29.
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Neologism ?
Silver - v entertaining views and always good to see a healthy debate ... BUT what's an "escallop" ? Is it seafood ? Viennese ? Is it pounded and breaded ? How does it relate to the Labour Party ?
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And there is still the problem of suggesting Boris Island, the other one nearby I can't remember, Gatwick, Stansted, Birmingham as alternatives to Heathrow: can you force an airport to close or airlines to move?
Perhaps you could have done this, even in Britain, forty years ago, when there was one national airline, more central planning, less emphasis on the free market, and less anti-subsidy legislation from both national and EU government.
Expansion at Heathrow is not in any way ideal, but I just can't see how any alternatives will work or succeed in the free market yet heavily regulated economy we have at the moment.
Perhaps you could have done this, even in Britain, forty years ago, when there was one national airline, more central planning, less emphasis on the free market, and less anti-subsidy legislation from both national and EU government.
Expansion at Heathrow is not in any way ideal, but I just can't see how any alternatives will work or succeed in the free market yet heavily regulated economy we have at the moment.