Qantas grounding?
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Why Joyce gets 5 million a year!!
Well done and congratulations to all the senior management at Qantas for having the courage to take direct (and correct) action and stop this delibarate union torture of the airline.
The fact he has taken this step is a direct slap across the formerly smug faces of the sooks on any of these anti qantas threads who doubted his ability to lead from the front. He has shown better judgement and command decision making ability than most qantas captains.
Watching the angry ant ALAEU fed sec with his sneering face on the TV and listening to that dribbling sook and terminal cry baby Woodward from the pilots association has completely confirmed that unions only want to play on their own terms. Hope you clowns had a plan B!
Alan Joyce is paid 5 million a year to be a leader and make tough decisions. Thats exactly what he has done. Suck it up princesses!!
The fact he has taken this step is a direct slap across the formerly smug faces of the sooks on any of these anti qantas threads who doubted his ability to lead from the front. He has shown better judgement and command decision making ability than most qantas captains.
Watching the angry ant ALAEU fed sec with his sneering face on the TV and listening to that dribbling sook and terminal cry baby Woodward from the pilots association has completely confirmed that unions only want to play on their own terms. Hope you clowns had a plan B!
Alan Joyce is paid 5 million a year to be a leader and make tough decisions. Thats exactly what he has done. Suck it up princesses!!
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Some extremely clueless comments in here about Joyce's remuneration.
The package approved at the AGM consisted of a 3% rise to his general salary plus approximately $2m worth of options which are deferred until the end of 2012.
The options are only to be granted if Qantas share price outperforms the ASX. It is highly likely that Joyce will only get some of the options (if he gets any at all, which is a real possibility if the share price continues its current trajectory).
Taking the options out of the equation, Joyce has actually had a pay decrease.
The package approved at the AGM consisted of a 3% rise to his general salary plus approximately $2m worth of options which are deferred until the end of 2012.
The options are only to be granted if Qantas share price outperforms the ASX. It is highly likely that Joyce will only get some of the options (if he gets any at all, which is a real possibility if the share price continues its current trajectory).
Taking the options out of the equation, Joyce has actually had a pay decrease.
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Well Victor,
lets hope your little Irish boy can come up with a believeable response to the ASX tomorrow that this was a spur of the moment thing Saturday morning and not a planned action that he failed to mention to the shareholders or the stock exchange. Else he may be in for more than even he bargained for......
lets hope your little Irish boy can come up with a believeable response to the ASX tomorrow that this was a spur of the moment thing Saturday morning and not a planned action that he failed to mention to the shareholders or the stock exchange. Else he may be in for more than even he bargained for......
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lets hope your little Irish boy can come up with a believeable response to the ASX tomorrow that this was a spur of the moment thing Saturday morning and not a planned action that he failed to mention to the shareholders or the stock exchange. Else he may be in for more than even he bargained for......
Read this Pilots say email proves Qantas planned grounding - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
But the Australian International Pilots Association (AIPA) has obtained an email apparently sent by Jetstar CEO Bruce Buchanan last night advising his staff of the actions being taken by Qantas.
The date on the memo was Wednesday October 26 and is addressed to team leaders saying: "By now you may be aware Qantas has announced a precautionary grounding of its fleet from 5pm Saturday", and warned of the Monday lockout.
AIPA vice-president Captain Richard Woodward says the date on the email reveals the extent of the airline's "calculated" plans to freeze operations.
"It is dated Wednesday 26th of October - so this has been planned and orchestrated," he said.
"You don't stop an airline overnight."This has been a long considered plan by Qantas to escalate this dispute, right when CHOGM was happening, damaging our international reputation and just before Melbourne Cup, which is one of the busiest days of the year for the airline."
Jetstar says the date on the memo is incorrect and simple human error is to blame.
The airline says it used an old banner for the memo and forgot to change the date
The date on the memo was Wednesday October 26 and is addressed to team leaders saying: "By now you may be aware Qantas has announced a precautionary grounding of its fleet from 5pm Saturday", and warned of the Monday lockout.
AIPA vice-president Captain Richard Woodward says the date on the email reveals the extent of the airline's "calculated" plans to freeze operations.
"It is dated Wednesday 26th of October - so this has been planned and orchestrated," he said.
"You don't stop an airline overnight."This has been a long considered plan by Qantas to escalate this dispute, right when CHOGM was happening, damaging our international reputation and just before Melbourne Cup, which is one of the busiest days of the year for the airline."
Jetstar says the date on the memo is incorrect and simple human error is to blame.
The airline says it used an old banner for the memo and forgot to change the date
Last edited by aseanaero; 30th Oct 2011 at 05:50.
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http://hfgapps.hubb.com/asxtools/ima...&TIMA2=0&s=VBA
Virgins share price has been steadily increasing since September while Qantas has been doing exactly the opposite
http://hfgapps.hubb.com/asxtools/ima...&TIMA2=0&s=QAN
Some insider trading going on or normal market reaction to the preceding industrial action or a bit of both ? Who knows
Last edited by aseanaero; 30th Oct 2011 at 06:30.
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Is it my imagination or does the peak in Virgin's around around July looks like its giving the finger
Last edited by rh200; 30th Oct 2011 at 06:41.
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If you look at both share prices they tracked with correlation (similar peaks and troughs) until early September the virgin went up and qantas started going down.
The big share price changes will happen on Monday morning when the ASX opens
There's going to be an investigation I'm sure on how well planned in advance the fleet grounding was and who that info was leaked to and who took financial advantage of it. It's going to get messy , expect lots more 'misdated emails' and 'I have no clear memory of that conversation' type statements.
The big share price changes will happen on Monday morning when the ASX opens
There's going to be an investigation I'm sure on how well planned in advance the fleet grounding was and who that info was leaked to and who took financial advantage of it. It's going to get messy , expect lots more 'misdated emails' and 'I have no clear memory of that conversation' type statements.
Last edited by aseanaero; 30th Oct 2011 at 07:55.
I would not care to predict a victory for Qantas employees or Qantas management at this stage, but this may well be the final straw for the incumbent Primer Minister if she proves incapable, unable - or unwilling - to step in and at least get the two sides together at the conference table.
Does she come out on the side of the unons against management and therefore put the interests of the Federal Labor Party ahead of the national interest, or does she come out for management against the unions and place the national interest ahead of that of the party? Or, can she risk doing nothing at all and being perceived, yet again, as weak, indecisive and an irredeemable failure?
Looks like a case of "damned if she does (either way) and damned if she doesn't". Wonder how she'll try to offload this onto Tony Abbott?
This in turn raises another question; would the destruction of our national carrier be too high a price to pay for the removal of this inept Prime Minister?
Does she come out on the side of the unons against management and therefore put the interests of the Federal Labor Party ahead of the national interest, or does she come out for management against the unions and place the national interest ahead of that of the party? Or, can she risk doing nothing at all and being perceived, yet again, as weak, indecisive and an irredeemable failure?
Looks like a case of "damned if she does (either way) and damned if she doesn't". Wonder how she'll try to offload this onto Tony Abbott?
This in turn raises another question; would the destruction of our national carrier be too high a price to pay for the removal of this inept Prime Minister?
Where in god's name do people like this "Victor 2" come from?
They sure must have had some horrible upbringing or been rogered by a rabid unionist or something to vent such aggressive drivel!
I'm actually getting quite a chuckle at the rantings of these trolls. They are an interlude to otherwise earnest discussion about a serious topic.
What is the intention Victor, that people take heed of your froth-at-the-mouth jibbering and come over to your dark side? Or does it just feel good to bash the keyboard and get that bile vented?
Please dear rabid right-wing trolls, try to make some concession to calmness and eloquence in your posts.
Now how about some discussion on that Commo Gillard and her evil Carbon Tax eh
They sure must have had some horrible upbringing or been rogered by a rabid unionist or something to vent such aggressive drivel!
I'm actually getting quite a chuckle at the rantings of these trolls. They are an interlude to otherwise earnest discussion about a serious topic.
What is the intention Victor, that people take heed of your froth-at-the-mouth jibbering and come over to your dark side? Or does it just feel good to bash the keyboard and get that bile vented?
Please dear rabid right-wing trolls, try to make some concession to calmness and eloquence in your posts.
Now how about some discussion on that Commo Gillard and her evil Carbon Tax eh
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This in turn raises another question; would the destruction of our national carrier be too high a price to pay for the removal of this inept Prime Minister?
Anyone remember swissair?
Sometimes it's better to have a clear cut...
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As of last Saturday the old Qantas has been mortally wounded , whatever happens from now it will be a different airline. As wrong as this situation is and the way things were done I think management will get what they are pushing for over time.
I think the next Qantas B747 should be named " Alan I.R.A. Joyce " with a big Roo bar fitted on the front
I.R.A. = I Ruin Airlines
I think the next Qantas B747 should be named " Alan I.R.A. Joyce " with a big Roo bar fitted on the front
I.R.A. = I Ruin Airlines
Look whats happening to BMI. A once proud carrier is about to be broken up, and for what? slots at LHR? OK for some slightly different reasons maybe, but QF could fall into the same trap if management get their way.
British Midland was once a household name that meant something. After management successfully screwed it up 10 years ago it started going downhill to where it is today. Now it's a thorn in Luffty's backside. Please don't let Qantas go the same way!!
British Midland was once a household name that meant something. After management successfully screwed it up 10 years ago it started going downhill to where it is today. Now it's a thorn in Luffty's backside. Please don't let Qantas go the same way!!
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Now is the time for total solidarity of all the union members. Come Monday morning if baring the lockout everybody calls AJ's bluff and stays away the 15 mil a week loss will pale in comparison to the potential loss.
This would mean the back of AJ and a refreshed Qantas. Who will blink first? How long can Qantas survive a total stay away? Risk and reward, Risk and reward there will be one winner either AJ and his hoods or the workers and their families.
Im with the workers.....
This would mean the back of AJ and a refreshed Qantas. Who will blink first? How long can Qantas survive a total stay away? Risk and reward, Risk and reward there will be one winner either AJ and his hoods or the workers and their families.
Im with the workers.....
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Boyracer , I think a mass strike is exactly what management want so they can really bring the bulldozers and chainsaws in , the workers need to try and turn up for work on monday
I found this airline review on Qantas
Qantas Airways - Airline Review
I found this airline review on Qantas
Corporate Culture
Qantas has long sat on its hands and relied on its flag carrier status to win itself customers, however the travelling public have demonstrated their dissatisfaction by booking on other airlines offering a superior product. The upper echelon of the company is an old boys club, devoid of ideas, initiative or talent where promotion is based on ‘brown nosing’ and knowing the right people. Corruption and incompetence thrive within the company at all levels. Senior management despise the airline’s unionised staff and the airline suffers from an upstairs/downstairs culture. Ordinary business decisions are celebrated as landmark achievements by Qantas’ mediocre managers. Alan Joyce has been accused of ‘Jetstarizing’ Qantas and many aviation commentators now believe he is the wrong man for the job and predict his demise. Qantas' poisonous corporate culture is the root cause for the airlines decline. It share price is nosediving along with support for the company. Management grounding of the airline is practically unprecedented in aviation and will cause long term damage to the airlines already tarnished reputation. Alan Joyce's 71% pay rise two days before he grounded the airline is a public relations disaster.
Qantas has long sat on its hands and relied on its flag carrier status to win itself customers, however the travelling public have demonstrated their dissatisfaction by booking on other airlines offering a superior product. The upper echelon of the company is an old boys club, devoid of ideas, initiative or talent where promotion is based on ‘brown nosing’ and knowing the right people. Corruption and incompetence thrive within the company at all levels. Senior management despise the airline’s unionised staff and the airline suffers from an upstairs/downstairs culture. Ordinary business decisions are celebrated as landmark achievements by Qantas’ mediocre managers. Alan Joyce has been accused of ‘Jetstarizing’ Qantas and many aviation commentators now believe he is the wrong man for the job and predict his demise. Qantas' poisonous corporate culture is the root cause for the airlines decline. It share price is nosediving along with support for the company. Management grounding of the airline is practically unprecedented in aviation and will cause long term damage to the airlines already tarnished reputation. Alan Joyce's 71% pay rise two days before he grounded the airline is a public relations disaster.
Last edited by aseanaero; 30th Oct 2011 at 08:10.
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A mass strike is a very ballsy thing, but what are the alternatives? at this stage if the unions show up on Monday and the company goes ahead with the lockout AJ has won, he can then trim the airline for free. the triming needs to be at the top not the bottom , but if the top is doing the trimming then the bottom goes. Im sure the unions are weighing up the value of Qantas to Australia and the world, Simply put if the Australian economy cant do away with Qantas then the power is with the people and old AJ is pants down over a log. I think the way to avoid a melt down would be if the PM stepped in and fired AJ and got the new management and unions to have a round table chat, at least that would be a safer bet and everyone could retreat to lick their wounds and have a job in the morn. The real concern are the employees who need Qantas to feed their families and AJ knows this, he is not playing fair.
If AJ wins then what? A company who loath their boss, not good for the bottom line and safety.
If AJ wins then what? A company who loath their boss, not good for the bottom line and safety.
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Boyracer , safety ... I bet they have a management discussion paper that says a couple of total hull losses every decade is within industry normals. Welcome to the 'new Qantass'
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You are probably right Aseanaero, they should show up on Monday to show the good people of Australia that they are better than AJ, he would love to point a finger. But in theory with lots of if's I would love to see the workers go on a total strike and witness the management eat S***, they the management would be forever unemployable... I love a good ending.
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Boyracer,
What is this fascination you have with the PM charging in to save the day? This is not a nationalised airline and the red-headed one has no sway in the hiring and firing of the Board. She may well have an opinion and she may well make that opinion known but if the Board choose to ignore her and do something completely different then she doesn't have a leg to stand on (and given her performance in every other facet of Australian events I'm glad she doesn't). This will, ultimately, come down to AJ convincing the Board he has done the right thing for QF (I'm NOT saying he has, just what he has to do) and the Board backing him. The PM is a red (headed) herring.
What is this fascination you have with the PM charging in to save the day? This is not a nationalised airline and the red-headed one has no sway in the hiring and firing of the Board. She may well have an opinion and she may well make that opinion known but if the Board choose to ignore her and do something completely different then she doesn't have a leg to stand on (and given her performance in every other facet of Australian events I'm glad she doesn't). This will, ultimately, come down to AJ convincing the Board he has done the right thing for QF (I'm NOT saying he has, just what he has to do) and the Board backing him. The PM is a red (headed) herring.
Integrity
The Board comprises a majority of Independent Non-Executive
Directors who, together with the Executive Director, have an
appropriate balance of skills, experience and expertise. The
Board endorses the ASX Corporate Governance Council’s
Corporate Governance Principles and Recommendations with
2010 Amendments, 2nd Edition (ASX Principles).
THE BOARD LAYS SOLID FOUNDATIONS FOR MANAGEMENT
AND OVERSIGHT
The Board has adopted a formal Charter which is available
in the Corporate Governance section on the Qantas website.
The Board is responsible for setting and reviewing the strategic
direction of Qantas and monitoring the implementation of that
strategy by Executive Management, including:
— Promoting ethical and responsible decision-making
— Monitoring compliance with all relevant laws, tax obligations,
regulations, applicable accounting standards and significant
corporate policies (including the Qantas Code of Conduct & Ethics)
— Overseeing the Qantas Group, including its control and
accountability systems
— Approving the annual operating budget and monitoring the
operating and financial performance of the Qantas Group
— Approving and monitoring the capital management strategy,
including major acquisitions and divestitures
— Appointing and removing the Chief Executive Officer (CEO)
— Monitoring the performance of the CEO and Executive
Management, including the Chief Financial Officer (CFO)
— Developing Board and Executive Management and succession
planning
— Ensuring a clear relationship between performance and executive
remuneration
— Monitoring the Group’s system of risk management and internal
compliance and control
— Ensuring that the market and shareholders are fully informed
of material developments
Directors who, together with the Executive Director, have an
appropriate balance of skills, experience and expertise. The
Board endorses the ASX Corporate Governance Council’s
Corporate Governance Principles and Recommendations with
2010 Amendments, 2nd Edition (ASX Principles).
THE BOARD LAYS SOLID FOUNDATIONS FOR MANAGEMENT
AND OVERSIGHT
The Board has adopted a formal Charter which is available
in the Corporate Governance section on the Qantas website.
The Board is responsible for setting and reviewing the strategic
direction of Qantas and monitoring the implementation of that
strategy by Executive Management, including:
— Promoting ethical and responsible decision-making
— Monitoring compliance with all relevant laws, tax obligations,
regulations, applicable accounting standards and significant
corporate policies (including the Qantas Code of Conduct & Ethics)
— Overseeing the Qantas Group, including its control and
accountability systems
— Approving the annual operating budget and monitoring the
operating and financial performance of the Qantas Group
— Approving and monitoring the capital management strategy,
including major acquisitions and divestitures
— Appointing and removing the Chief Executive Officer (CEO)
— Monitoring the performance of the CEO and Executive
Management, including the Chief Financial Officer (CFO)
— Developing Board and Executive Management and succession
planning
— Ensuring a clear relationship between performance and executive
remuneration
— Monitoring the Group’s system of risk management and internal
compliance and control
— Ensuring that the market and shareholders are fully informed
of material developments
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I think a total strike would show both sides of the dispute are being pigheaded , the unions need to show they care more for the survival of the airline than the management team and that work will continue while pay and conditions negotiations are going on.
Having thousands of people wanting to work locked out at the gate will make good press for the staff.
Having thousands of people wanting to work locked out at the gate will make good press for the staff.