Qantas grounding?
Prof. Airport Engineer
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Is it Alan Joyce, or is someone else the "Bain" of Qantas - someone who has been here before and nickle-and-dimed another Australian airline to death 
In May 23, 2011 Scott Rochfort of the Sydney Morning Herald had this to say
In May 23, 2011 Scott Rochfort of the Sydney Morning Herald had this to say
The airline, which for years has used Boston Consulting Group, is rumoured to have invited Bain & Company into its offices to prepare a few pie charts.
The appointment of Bain is not likely to go down well with Qantas's heavily unionised workforce. The blurb on the management consultancy's website notes: ''In this challenging environment, airlines can take steps to improve their business - but it requires decisive action.
''Bain's approach to consulting - focused on strategies with the highest impact and effective implementation - is well-suited to the airline industry, where there is no time to waste.''
Bain boasts that the returns of its airline clients ''have outpaced the S&P by 4 to 1''. Bain might be able to apply some of the expertise it built up helping the now defunct Ansett.
''Bain's expertise in airline consulting includes work in strategy, mergers and acquisitions, turnarounds, fleet and network optimisation, pricing, labour relations, operations restructuring and business plan formation,'' says the website.
The appointment of Bain is not likely to go down well with Qantas's heavily unionised workforce. The blurb on the management consultancy's website notes: ''In this challenging environment, airlines can take steps to improve their business - but it requires decisive action.
''Bain's approach to consulting - focused on strategies with the highest impact and effective implementation - is well-suited to the airline industry, where there is no time to waste.''
Bain boasts that the returns of its airline clients ''have outpaced the S&P by 4 to 1''. Bain might be able to apply some of the expertise it built up helping the now defunct Ansett.
''Bain's expertise in airline consulting includes work in strategy, mergers and acquisitions, turnarounds, fleet and network optimisation, pricing, labour relations, operations restructuring and business plan formation,'' says the website.
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As a former LAME, I long ago learnt that any airline will screw their engineers (and employees) to make a profit. So I left the industry 30 years ago and found my experience quickly made me employable in other fields.
When I fly it is with the cheapest, safest and most reliable operator possible. I long ago also stopped having any loyalty to Qantas. If they cant give me a low fare I go elsewhere. In the past 2 months, every Qantas flight I have taken (which has been the cheapest fare on offer at the time I booked) has been delayed at least 2 hours due to the union slow roasting. So one way or another this nonsense by the unions and Qantas had to stop (or be stopped).
So if Qantas went offshore or closed down permanently I would say that is part of the process of aviation evolving. A business is a business and if it can't be run to make maximum profits then it goes out of business.
To the loyal Qantas workforce. You have all been part of a company which has been something that you can be proud of, but start facing reality - quickly. The aviation world has changed since you snared your job for life and when you come into work tomorrow, the job you had might no longer be there for you.
When I fly it is with the cheapest, safest and most reliable operator possible. I long ago also stopped having any loyalty to Qantas. If they cant give me a low fare I go elsewhere. In the past 2 months, every Qantas flight I have taken (which has been the cheapest fare on offer at the time I booked) has been delayed at least 2 hours due to the union slow roasting. So one way or another this nonsense by the unions and Qantas had to stop (or be stopped).
So if Qantas went offshore or closed down permanently I would say that is part of the process of aviation evolving. A business is a business and if it can't be run to make maximum profits then it goes out of business.
To the loyal Qantas workforce. You have all been part of a company which has been something that you can be proud of, but start facing reality - quickly. The aviation world has changed since you snared your job for life and when you come into work tomorrow, the job you had might no longer be there for you.
The wee laddie was hired for one thing and that is to send Qantas overseas.
You are highly delusional if you think there is any loyalty to name brand, staff or customers and this runs every way. If a customer can get it cheaper they will go elsewhere. If staff can find a more accommodating job they are off.
Its unfortunate that we no longer want a high standard on our flights but would rather travel and be treated like cattle.
You are highly delusional if you think there is any loyalty to name brand, staff or customers and this runs every way. If a customer can get it cheaper they will go elsewhere. If staff can find a more accommodating job they are off.
Its unfortunate that we no longer want a high standard on our flights but would rather travel and be treated like cattle.
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QANTAS GROUNDING NOT UNPRECEDENTED
IBERIA did the same with the same result (effectively eliminating the right to strike) about 12 years ago.
Qantas workers have been
and their rights wiped out.
There is only one way to overcome this, and nobody wants to take that way.
Besides, a massive Qantas workers resign would be too difficult.
Qantas workers have been
and their rights wiped out.There is only one way to overcome this, and nobody wants to take that way.
Besides, a massive Qantas workers resign would be too difficult.
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Tipsy, lay off the stuff from the valley and smell the coffee. Bakutteh actually took the words out of my mouth; AJ is the water boy who has taken the piss from the board and slam dunked it to all unsuspecting Aussies. Aussies in the aviation industry and pilots in particular will have adjust to the new ( I hate to say this over used word ) paradigm!
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And while we discuss this..
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The QF board and the public are not easily fooled by the disingenious claims of the unions. The recent QF engine problems looked mighty suspicious; deliberate attempts to demonise outsourcing. With people becoming more knowledgeable and aviation savvy, those grandiose pronouncements by dunnunda pilots about their safety skills hold no water. People do read aviation safety reports from dunnunda and people working with manufaturers and safety regulators do know about boos boos made by all segments of airline pilots in the world....there ain't much of a difference if all relevant factors are accounted. People ain't easily fooled by all the swagger, self aggrandizing awards, etc
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Its unfortunate that we no longer want a high standard on our flights but would rather travel and be treated like cattle
Its unfortunate that we no longer want a high standard on our flights but would rather travel and be treated like cattle.
We do not want to be treated as cattle unless we pay a very low price.
Where Qantas staff have it completely wrong, is that they think we want to be treated like cattle and pay for the privilege of paying over the top prices. There other carriers who offer slightly less than high standards at slightly more than a cattle class price and so people use them instead. It is simple as that, even though its a painful truth for Qantas staff who think the world (still) owes them a living on their own terms.
Sorry folks, but thats Dodo talk.
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Tie me Kangaroo down indeed, this article below is better balanced and shows up the red cow as lacklustre in extreme.
Shows Minister Ferguson as the only man with brains in the whole outfit. Had they listended to him it would have been better handled for sure.
As for trusting the Minister of 'no conequence', it would be folly indeed to take any notice whatsoever of his pontifications.
Noteworthy is that the socialist cow only acted when she perceived that her prescious unionists would get no pay while locked out. What the bleeding 'ell did she expect? Everyone on full pay while the comapny went broke?
That seemed to be happening already as Ferguson notes, which was easy enough to see for those capable of passing a Class 1 eye medical.
How the Government failed to lead - and then tried to cover up | Herald Sun Andrew Bolt Blog
Shows Minister Ferguson as the only man with brains in the whole outfit. Had they listended to him it would have been better handled for sure.
As for trusting the Minister of 'no conequence', it would be folly indeed to take any notice whatsoever of his pontifications.
Noteworthy is that the socialist cow only acted when she perceived that her prescious unionists would get no pay while locked out. What the bleeding 'ell did she expect? Everyone on full pay while the comapny went broke?
That seemed to be happening already as Ferguson notes, which was easy enough to see for those capable of passing a Class 1 eye medical.
How the Government failed to lead - and then tried to cover up | Herald Sun Andrew Bolt Blog
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The recent QF engine problems looked mighty suspicious;
I'll leave it to someone closer to the QF coalface to explain, but from what I've heard, many of the problems QF's engines have suffered of late might be explained by QF's almost unique 'by the hour' leasing arrangements for some of their engines. (Another QF management 'money saving' venture.)
Anyone seen a the survey or stats that reveal why the public choose to or not to fly with Qantas?
Qantas has 14% of the international market, I'd suggest that the majority of passengers don't choose Qantas based on cost of the fare.
Cabin crew and pilots are the human interface with the ozzie accent but engineers are hidden from view.
No question that the Qantas safety record is a selling point where the unique factor, compared to other airlines, is the nationality of the engineers.
Lets say that Qantas can increase their share to 20% of the market by lowering fares by using non Oz engineers, in the event of a prang would they lose 6% of market ? I reckon the numbers have been crunched and the answer is no.
Qantas has 14% of the international market, I'd suggest that the majority of passengers don't choose Qantas based on cost of the fare.
Cabin crew and pilots are the human interface with the ozzie accent but engineers are hidden from view.
No question that the Qantas safety record is a selling point where the unique factor, compared to other airlines, is the nationality of the engineers.
Lets say that Qantas can increase their share to 20% of the market by lowering fares by using non Oz engineers, in the event of a prang would they lose 6% of market ? I reckon the numbers have been crunched and the answer is no.
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What will the little Welsh red haired lady do about it now?
Australia's Julia Gillard furious over Qantas action
Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard has hit out at national airline Qantas, in her strongest criticism yet of the firm's decision to shut down its operations at the weekend.
Ms Gillard said Qantas bosses had taken "extreme and irresponsible" action.
In a surprise move on Saturday, the airline locked out its staff and stopped all flights in an attempt to end months of strike action by workers.
The firm said most of its flight schedules had now returned to normal.
The country's industrial regulator, Fair Work Australia, stepped in to end the dispute, ordering both sides back to work on Monday after emergency talks.
Ms Gillard has said she supports the right of workers to take industrial action, and on Tuesday made it clear that she was still angry with the company.
"Qantas on Friday was talking about continuing to negotiate this dispute. On Saturday it made the decision to strand tens of thousands of passengers around Australia and around the world," she said.
"It needs to take some responsibility publicly for that decision."
The airline gave the government three hours' notice of its decision to lock out its own workers.
Unions representing Qantas workers have been infuriated by the firm's restructuring plans, which will see a large part of its operation moving to Asia.
The firm's bosses said the lock-out was needed to end the dispute, which had been costing millions of dollars every week.
All domestic flights are running as planned, and international schedules will be back to normal within the next 24 hours, the firm said in a statement at midday on Tuesday (01:00 GMT).
Australia's Julia Gillard furious over Qantas action
Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard has hit out at national airline Qantas, in her strongest criticism yet of the firm's decision to shut down its operations at the weekend.
Ms Gillard said Qantas bosses had taken "extreme and irresponsible" action.
In a surprise move on Saturday, the airline locked out its staff and stopped all flights in an attempt to end months of strike action by workers.
The firm said most of its flight schedules had now returned to normal.
The country's industrial regulator, Fair Work Australia, stepped in to end the dispute, ordering both sides back to work on Monday after emergency talks.
Ms Gillard has said she supports the right of workers to take industrial action, and on Tuesday made it clear that she was still angry with the company.
"Qantas on Friday was talking about continuing to negotiate this dispute. On Saturday it made the decision to strand tens of thousands of passengers around Australia and around the world," she said.
"It needs to take some responsibility publicly for that decision."
The airline gave the government three hours' notice of its decision to lock out its own workers.
Unions representing Qantas workers have been infuriated by the firm's restructuring plans, which will see a large part of its operation moving to Asia.
The firm's bosses said the lock-out was needed to end the dispute, which had been costing millions of dollars every week.
All domestic flights are running as planned, and international schedules will be back to normal within the next 24 hours, the firm said in a statement at midday on Tuesday (01:00 GMT).
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An interesting take on the situation from Alan Weiss, the world's leading independent management consultant in his Monday Morning Memo yesterday:
This week's focus point: I've never seen a company or institution with unhappy employees and happy customers. Employees are assets, not expenses, yet many executives think they should be investing in equipment maintenance but not people maintenance. Among the worst offenders are banks, newspapers, and airlines. Apparently, Qantas would rather close its operation, ground its fleet, and inconvenience tens of thousands of customers than try to resolve its people issues. TWA, Eastern, and others were all driven out of business by horrible management-labor relationships. Neither unions nor management are always right or always wrong, but when you decide to take your ball and leave the playground you are a child, not an adult.
Enough said?
This week's focus point: I've never seen a company or institution with unhappy employees and happy customers. Employees are assets, not expenses, yet many executives think they should be investing in equipment maintenance but not people maintenance. Among the worst offenders are banks, newspapers, and airlines. Apparently, Qantas would rather close its operation, ground its fleet, and inconvenience tens of thousands of customers than try to resolve its people issues. TWA, Eastern, and others were all driven out of business by horrible management-labor relationships. Neither unions nor management are always right or always wrong, but when you decide to take your ball and leave the playground you are a child, not an adult.
Enough said?
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Has joyce really won?
The cost of grounding all of Jumping Dog airline was $30M a day for 3 days is about $90M
How much would the union demand have cost over say 3 years?
Does any body have a clue??
I bet it wouldn't cost a tenth of that.
The cost of grounding all of Jumping Dog airline was $30M a day for 3 days is about $90M
How much would the union demand have cost over say 3 years?
Does any body have a clue??
I bet it wouldn't cost a tenth of that.
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Is there any truth to the rumour I heard today from Bne Airport that Alan Joyce wants to fly in Chinese workers for 5 days at a time and back home again for $400.00/mth?
Last edited by subyroo; 1st Nov 2011 at 13:15.
