BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL
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UA dropped the route because it was loss making. Even with all their feed they couldn't make it work.
Norwegian will have no feed on either side of the route and will rely on outbound Northern Ireland traffic. With GBP falling in value and USD on the opposite trajectory, this would be a risky game.
Northern Ireland has a fantastic tourist product and warm welcome. It will take longer for the fear of terrorism to depart the minds of US tourists though.
Norwegian will have no feed on either side of the route and will rely on outbound Northern Ireland traffic. With GBP falling in value and USD on the opposite trajectory, this would be a risky game.
Northern Ireland has a fantastic tourist product and warm welcome. It will take longer for the fear of terrorism to depart the minds of US tourists though.
Join Date: Nov 2014
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Fear of terrorism in the North? That's hardly still a fear? Many Americans live in cities hundreds of times more dangerous than anywhere in NI, I don't accept terrorism as a valid reason for lack of market at all.
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The whole terrorism thing in NI is fast becoming a distant memory TG.
NI is probably safer in that respect than Paris and Americans are still going there in big numbers.
However I would disagree that 'Northern Ireland has a fantastic tourist product...' having visited probably every corner of the land many times over many years (visiting better half's side of the family) I honestly don't think there's much to offer. Belfast is a pretty average large town / small city IMO, Derry is tiny and lifeless and the rest quite boring. Only Enniskillen feels like it has a touristy vibe and the lakes are nice. Thing is though that Enniskillen feels less like NI and more like ROI. There's probably something in that.
A TATL service will rely on the good folk of NI going on holiday but that surely cannot be a subsidised service......low income taxpayers who can never dream of going to the States subsidizing shopping trips to NY for middle class ladies from Holywood.....? Wrong on so many levels.
NI is probably safer in that respect than Paris and Americans are still going there in big numbers.
However I would disagree that 'Northern Ireland has a fantastic tourist product...' having visited probably every corner of the land many times over many years (visiting better half's side of the family) I honestly don't think there's much to offer. Belfast is a pretty average large town / small city IMO, Derry is tiny and lifeless and the rest quite boring. Only Enniskillen feels like it has a touristy vibe and the lakes are nice. Thing is though that Enniskillen feels less like NI and more like ROI. There's probably something in that.
A TATL service will rely on the good folk of NI going on holiday but that surely cannot be a subsidised service......low income taxpayers who can never dream of going to the States subsidizing shopping trips to NY for middle class ladies from Holywood.....? Wrong on so many levels.
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When you see the numbers of passengers who travel through Gatwick Heathrow and Manchester on a daily basis to connect with America there is clearly the numbers to support an American route
I do think a westjet service with all its connections to Canada and parts of America is definitely sustainable
Let's see what connecting passenger numbers will be like with Icelandair from BHD it has clearly been a selling point for management there showing that we are losing united. Although it's a Dash operating the route atleast it's a flight in the right direction rather than heading to the mainland or even Amsterdam as they promote this route as a possible gateway to America
I do think a westjet service with all its connections to Canada and parts of America is definitely sustainable
Let's see what connecting passenger numbers will be like with Icelandair from BHD it has clearly been a selling point for management there showing that we are losing united. Although it's a Dash operating the route atleast it's a flight in the right direction rather than heading to the mainland or even Amsterdam as they promote this route as a possible gateway to America
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BBC News and other broadcasting agencies only mention Northern Ireland when a bomb goes off etc.
Last edited by owenc; 9th Jan 2017 at 14:17.
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The whole terrorism thing in NI is fast becoming a distant memory TG.
NI is probably safer in that respect than Paris and Americans are still going there in big numbers.
However I would disagree that 'Northern Ireland has a fantastic tourist product...' having visited probably every corner of the land many times over many years (visiting better half's side of the family) I honestly don't think there's much to offer. Belfast is a pretty average large town / small city IMO, Derry is tiny and lifeless and the rest quite boring. Only Enniskillen feels like it has a touristy vibe and the lakes are nice. Thing is though that Enniskillen feels less like NI and more like ROI. There's probably something in that.
A TATL service will rely on the good folk of NI going on holiday but that surely cannot be a subsidised service......low income taxpayers who can never dream of going to the States subsidizing shopping trips to NY for middle class ladies from Holywood.....? Wrong on so many levels.
NI is probably safer in that respect than Paris and Americans are still going there in big numbers.
However I would disagree that 'Northern Ireland has a fantastic tourist product...' having visited probably every corner of the land many times over many years (visiting better half's side of the family) I honestly don't think there's much to offer. Belfast is a pretty average large town / small city IMO, Derry is tiny and lifeless and the rest quite boring. Only Enniskillen feels like it has a touristy vibe and the lakes are nice. Thing is though that Enniskillen feels less like NI and more like ROI. There's probably something in that.
A TATL service will rely on the good folk of NI going on holiday but that surely cannot be a subsidised service......low income taxpayers who can never dream of going to the States subsidizing shopping trips to NY for middle class ladies from Holywood.....? Wrong on so many levels.
NI is a small country so the perception will take a while to change.
Join Date: Dec 2013
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What is the alternative? What do you propose? Why does the Republic/Southern half of this island manage to make such a lucrative case while Northern Ireland struggles?
Belfast airport, an airport with 5.1 million passengers cannot manage to retain one daily flight to EWR while SNN an airport of only 1.7 million passengers can manage to bring in 400,000 passengers from EWR, PHL, ORD, BOS and JFK. Infact, in the summer season, Delta Airlines and Aer Lingus manage to fill two Boeing 767's to BOS and JFK.
Clearly, American citizens are filling the seats there because County Kerry and it's environs alone, does not have the population to fill 400,000 seats.
Northern Ireland's poor reputation further afield is obviously having a detrimental effect on its capacity to draw in visitors from foreign locations.
For our population, we should be able to have at least two daily flights to the United States; in the summer season anyway.
Belfast airport, an airport with 5.1 million passengers cannot manage to retain one daily flight to EWR while SNN an airport of only 1.7 million passengers can manage to bring in 400,000 passengers from EWR, PHL, ORD, BOS and JFK. Infact, in the summer season, Delta Airlines and Aer Lingus manage to fill two Boeing 767's to BOS and JFK.
Clearly, American citizens are filling the seats there because County Kerry and it's environs alone, does not have the population to fill 400,000 seats.
Northern Ireland's poor reputation further afield is obviously having a detrimental effect on its capacity to draw in visitors from foreign locations.
For our population, we should be able to have at least two daily flights to the United States; in the summer season anyway.
Last edited by owenc; 9th Jan 2017 at 14:18.
Join Date: Jul 2009
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UA dropped the route because it was loss making. Even with all their feed they couldn't make it work.
Q190 Oliver Colvile: Forgive me—I have heard your argument—but why are you continuing to operate the service? What is in it for you? ... Bob Schumacher: Profit. Q191 Oliver Colvile: But you say you are making a loss, though. Bob Schumacher: It has been profitable.
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That's not 100% right, this is could be where FR and DY offer a transfer/transit arrangement. I believe it is these regional airports where DY are looking for the FR feed, not the large internationals like LGW/CPH/ARN/OSL.
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Is anyone privy to the numbers which detail the percentage of United Airlines passengers who orginated in NYC as opposed to elsewhere in the route network?
That would give an idea as to whether a point to point service is sustanable or if onwards connections Stateside would be required to attract the numbers needed to entice a new carrier.
That would give an idea as to whether a point to point service is sustanable or if onwards connections Stateside would be required to attract the numbers needed to entice a new carrier.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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EGAC, I don't know about the BFS EWR route specifically, but UA have said before in an interview with some of the airline journals that 60% of passengers flying into EWR from international destinations are connecting passengers.
My guess wood be that BFS is the same or higher, given the lack of alternatives ex BFS...
My guess wood be that BFS is the same or higher, given the lack of alternatives ex BFS...
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Can we knock this myth on the head please? Unless you work in the revenue department at United you can't say that for certain. The best we as laymen know is what the airline itself said: that there are more profitable opportunities elsewhere in the network for the use of a 757 airframe. They've been saying that even since the days of full-tier APD: House of Commons - Northern Ireland Affairs Committee - Minutes of Evidence
Also stated that the route was profitable in the Past.
As I understand it, the reason the £3 million pa subsidy to UA was illegal was because it was agreed behind closed doors and not put to tender, so there's nothing stopping the same deal being laid on the table and being open to public tender right? And UA could then bid for it, along with anyone else interested....so why hasn't it happened?
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I think from what is being said certainly support is available for the route, at what level isn't clear but there will be support offered, marketing and 0% APD, there is a route development fund available which was signed off in Stormont long before the current 'crisis'
Join Date: Feb 2001
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If the good people of NI want a US link, then right now Norwegian offers their best shot, they are the launch customer for Europe for the 738MAX with the first aircraft arriving in 3 months and will have 6 by the end of June. These are ETOPS spec aircraft, nothing else comes close in min fuel burn terms for 'thin' routes.
EDI is being set up as a narrow body long haul base and whilst the routes have yet to be formally announced its no secret that they are look at BOS/JFK bay area, but not necessarily JFK OR BOS.
I would expect a slow ramp up with aircraft routing through EDI/BFS/MAN/ORK/BHX & maybe STN
Who else could do it?, not Jet2 with the 757 and they are unknown in the states, a legacy may jump in as a spoiler, but thats unlikely.
Norwegian have huge brand awareness at both JFK and BOS, getting the cost down will be key, so secondary airports no APD and so on..
Norwegian maybe waiting to see what the Donald does about their approval before launching the route, but his in tray is getting fuller by the day.
EDI is being set up as a narrow body long haul base and whilst the routes have yet to be formally announced its no secret that they are look at BOS/JFK bay area, but not necessarily JFK OR BOS.
I would expect a slow ramp up with aircraft routing through EDI/BFS/MAN/ORK/BHX & maybe STN
Who else could do it?, not Jet2 with the 757 and they are unknown in the states, a legacy may jump in as a spoiler, but thats unlikely.
Norwegian have huge brand awareness at both JFK and BOS, getting the cost down will be key, so secondary airports no APD and so on..
Norwegian maybe waiting to see what the Donald does about their approval before launching the route, but his in tray is getting fuller by the day.
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I wouldn't mind Norweigan as long as they offered a service to JFK/EWR (not Stewart) and improved their onboard product.
Belfast to New York isn't too long of a route so a 737 MAX wouldn't much different to the United 757 in terms of comfort/endurance.
Belfast to New York isn't too long of a route so a 737 MAX wouldn't much different to the United 757 in terms of comfort/endurance.