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Old 25th Nov 2016, 13:41
  #5781 (permalink)  
 
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Firstly, since when was I a southerner?

Not a surprise that BFS EWR had a stronger westbound point of sale as it Is not a major tourist or business destination (Bristol vs London similar for example). A weakened sterling further damaged the route no doubt. I have access to Load Factor data for DUB ORK SNN / EWR and the flight was holding its own from a load perspective.

Tourism Ireland does quite a good job in advertising Northern Ireland sights. Indeed I took my own kids to Cultra recently! Those who suggest that Visit Britain should promote the north need a geography lesson.... Northern Ireland not being part of Britain.

If you were Tourism Ireland, would you spend most of your money on a market with say 3000 seats daily (US - Dublin) or 200 seats daily (US - Belfast). The vast majority of non U.K. BFS seats are outbound holiday routes to Spain, rather than cities with significant inbound potential, so again, where would you promote?

Sadly, Belfast has an unfair stigma of 'is it safe?' That takes more than a generation to overcome.

The BFS CEO should worry about things in his control and keep out of politics.

Oh, and someone should correct the typos on his biography on the BFS Website.
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 15:39
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Wouldn't take much notice of it, clearly orchestrated (not by CEO but little surprised he took the bate), in the process he has made himself look like a complete knob to put it nicely.

Its the second nugget to be dropped by the political members in NI and it wont be the last and the timing is no surprise.

Some early backside covering happening as the pressure is on however blaming Government down South will not fool many rational people.

My comments will go over many peoples heads who post here, so look at bigger picture....before posting a silly reply.
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Old 26th Nov 2016, 19:18
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Make what you will of this (in other words dont start on me), but landed back in BFS from EWR this morning and staff at BFS were telling me that Virgin are apparently offering some sort of LAS/MCA/NYC mash up once UA leave.

The sticking point? They want serious investment in links to BFS.

Obviously if true, it would require backbone/investment from stormont which we all know won't happen.
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Old 26th Nov 2016, 20:39
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Originally Posted by Jamie2k9
Wouldn't take much notice of it, clearly orchestrated (not by CEO but little surprised he took the bate), in the process he has made himself look like a complete knob to put it nicely.

Its the second nugget to be dropped by the political members in NI and it wont be the last and the timing is no surprise.

Some early backside covering happening as the pressure is on however blaming Government down South will not fool many rational people.

My comments will go over many peoples heads who post here, so look at bigger picture....before posting a silly reply.
For someone so superior, you should really know how to spell 'bait' correctly.

Considering you are so heavily involved in the DUB thread and list your location as Dublin, you'll forgive us for taking your defence of the set up with a pinch of salt.
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Old 26th Nov 2016, 21:00
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You know Jose that's not entirely unbelievable. When you consider how much money has been waved at United and also the route development fund which to my knowledge has yet to be tapped. I'd imagine there's a lot of political pressure for the executive to produce some sort of transatlantic service, it's highly likely airlines have been invited to the table and Virgin have a successful operation here already. Nothing may indeed come of it.
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Old 26th Nov 2016, 21:38
  #5786 (permalink)  
 
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Considering there was no ruling against the support package (United used the fact that there would have to be an investigation after EI/IAG made their complaint, to pull out and avoid the hassle.)

Rumblings are that the support would have passed scrutiny had it gone ahead so sure there is a bit of encouragement.

The issue with TI is a real one but the folks in the Stormont hill up until now have been largely the problem, being seemingly uniterested in the aviation sector as long as they had their wee Airport round the corner to suit them (and the DUP head of TI as the CEO of said Airport, happy to concentrate on stealing business from BFS rather than doing a proper job)

Hopefully this United business seems to have awoke some of our less useless politicians to the notion that there is a need to put some plans in motion to attract airlines/routes here.
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Old 26th Nov 2016, 22:20
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Can I ask where the EU Commission confirmed it was EI/IAG who made the complaint or are people putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5?

UA were likely delighted that someone tipped the EC off as it avoids any bad PR for them. You wouldn't see them run so quick if the market was that important to them.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 01:45
  #5788 (permalink)  
 
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Total NI planned investment in Tourism Ireland is €14m in 2016, down from €16m in 2013. That's about 25% of total TI budget. Consisdering NI population is about 30% of all Ireland population, it's an underinvestment.

The paltry NI tourism investment demonstrates the stupidity of the investment level to keep a seasonal 757 to EWR. Would make much more sense to work with Easy, Lingus and Jet2 to promote inbound leisure routes from France, Germany and Italy.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 10:15
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BHX-BFS

Can anyone confirm that Easyjet have pulled this route from April (or is there still time for a 'deal' to be done)

If lost that's 250k seats pa gone between BHX-BFS
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 11:26
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Does anybody know what the frequency was on BFS - BHX in September 2016?

Something like this must be about right...
3x Mon, Thu, Fri, Sun
2x Tue, Wed
1x Sat
= Total 17x weekly

Based on that it works out no more than about 128 or 129 pax per flight which isn't horrific, but not great.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 12:04
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Easyjet will pull the route if agreement cannot be reached with BHX on fees.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 12:50
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Does anybody know what the frequency was on BFS - BHX in September 2016?
w/c 5 September 2016:

Mon
Dep EZY191 193 195
Arr EZY192 194 196

Tue, Wed
Dep EZY191 195
Arr EZY192 196

Thu, Fri
Dep EZY191 195 197
Arr EZY192 196 198

Sat
No service

Sun
Dep EZY193 195 197
Arr EZY194 196 198
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 13:39
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For someone so superior, you should really know how to spell 'bait' correctly.

Considering you are so heavily involved in the DUB thread and list your location as Dublin, you'll forgive us for taking your defence of the set up with a pinch of salt.
Would not use the word superior. I'm not narrow minded and don't allow political views cloud my judgment. Something one or two can't get past on here.

As for my location, don't always believe what you read on the internet.

I partly agree with your second post but then again you make an assumption it was EI who complained when you have no evidence. There are a lot of other airlines, airports and people who could of made them aware. It's really obvious why you would put EI top of the list......and it goes back to my rational point.

Total NI planned investment in Tourism Ireland is €14m in 2016, down from €16m in 2013. That's about 25% of total TI budget. Consisdering NI population is about 30% of all Ireland population, it's an underinvestment.
Yeah maybe TI will promote BFS as the gateway when NI are paying 75% of the budget.....
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 13:44
  #5794 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by j636
Can I ask where the EU Commission confirmed it was EI/IAG who made the complaint or are people putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5
You can certainly ask but it is kinda pointless on an internet rumor website

UA were likely delighted that someone tipped the EC off as it avoids any bad PR for them. You wouldn't see them run so quick if the market was that important to them.
That point is not in debate, they were always quite open about the fact that they could make more elsewhere. We are talking about the importance of the route to BFS and the NI economy. It is very easy to look at a headline figure and say '£6 million of govt. support for three years - what a rip off' but I imagine the cost/benefit analysis for the country is not quite so simple. Still, why think about anything in detail when you (people in general as opposed to you specifically) can make a snap judgement based on headlines and hearsay.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 14:32
  #5795 (permalink)  
 
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BFS-BHX

Source:CAA for the passenger figures and June and August estimated load factor due to not knowing the pricise date the summer cuts started and ended.

April 2016....17937 (16575).......134.....86%
May............18511 (16573).......132.....85%
June...........18643 (16432).......130.....83%
July............15014 (11629).......132.....85%
August........15868 (11692).......135.....87%
September...18511 (15993).......136.....87%

All pretty similar and all showing good growth, as the summer cuts in 16 were not as severe as summer 15.

As I have mentioned before if you follow the website it is pretty straightforward the weak services are the BHX outbound in the morning Tuesday-Thursday dragging load factor down, which is no surprise as it is heavily weighted as Belfast originating service.

Little doubt June, July and August the aircraft probably could yield more from Belfast to the Med in the morning but what about the other 2 - 4 sectors in the day and 9 months of the year if the whole service is pulled? Winter it is particularly strong but I can't see it going seasonal.

Pete
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 14:34
  #5796 (permalink)  
 
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EZY BFS BHX

Easyjet carried 196K pax on this route in 2015. During 2016 pax numbers have been up double digit most months. I guess close to 220/225 K for this year.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 19:43
  #5797 (permalink)  
 
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If EZY do ditch the BFS BHX route, it will be one of the staples for a major Ryanair growth offensive at BFS in 2017. ��
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 20:08
  #5798 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Copenhagen
Total NI planned investment in Tourism Ireland is €14m in 2016, down from €16m in 2013. That's about 25% of total TI budget. Consisdering NI population is about 30% of all Ireland population, it's an underinvestment.

The paltry NI tourism investment demonstrates the stupidity of the investment level to keep a seasonal 757 to EWR. Would make much more sense to work with Easy, Lingus and Jet2 to promote inbound leisure routes from France, Germany and Italy.
From all accounts Easy and Jet2 can't work with TI due to their Dublincentricity and Lingus only fly to those countries from Dublin. Copenhagen your ignorance is epic......NI contribution has dropped because of the fall in the pound not because of any drop in funds anyway under the Belfast Agreement (I think) TI is supposed to sell NI more aggressively than the South.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 20:53
  #5799 (permalink)  
 
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Jet 2 have no interest outside bucket and spade routes. I don't buy the Easyjet argument as Aer Lingus don't do massive work with TI either. Both are more interested in bucket/spade but not to Jet 2 extent.

TI don't pay airlines money which is likely why many are not that bothered.

Aer Lingus employ their own marketing teams in big markets like the US and they have a presence (possibly 3rd party) in places like Germany to promote their network. They even have people contracted in markets like Japan, NZ, Australia and South Africa where they don't fly to...

Last edited by PPRuNeUser0176; 27th Nov 2016 at 21:04.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 21:12
  #5800 (permalink)  
 
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The viability of a route like BHX doesn't depend only on absolute numbers, it depends on revenue. In today's crazy flight economics, most of this can come from ancillary revenue - on-board catering, and services booked through the website such as parking. I suspect that these short domestic routes generate very little ancillary, so unless they get people to pay a full fare, around £50 I think, they may be unprofitable even when busy.
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