BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL
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The AMS route was already developed. So why did KLM get route development funding. Why has LDY had tens of millions over the years of tax payers money on a vanity project that will never make a profit as a stand alone business. United,as a few suggested, had Stormont over a hoop and they caved in. It's probably the most profitable transatlantic 757 route now.
UA just played a smart game given the political situation here allows things like this to happen.
LDY is another political entity which will carry on because the NW is such a remote spot currently and the local council can't afford the bad press of winding it up
The 757 really does do fine from BFS. Plus it gives a local link to all the American businesses that we have funded to come here too. We cant afford to let it go. It really is that simple.
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Pardon my spelling mistakes within my last post. This is what happens when I type fast from a mobile device and predictive text gets to work - and i don't recheck! corrected now.
DC9, very interesting commentary and when collectively summed up in one post, it is so clear the level of funds being granted to airlines and the level of subventions being paid to airports.
The question is, does the taxpayer get value for money? In most cases, I guess not. KLM gives great connectivity through AMS, but the lions share of their passengers are connecting at AMS. In many if not most cases this will be at the cost of LHR as a connecting point ( and Dublin in some cases too). If the granting bodies want to incentivise the likes of KL and SN that is all fine and well, but they need to be mindful of their LHR link. It should not be taken for granted, all too many parts of the domestic networks ex LHR have been canned, like LPL, NQY, JER, IOM, MME, BHX. We can ask reason away why these happened, but they are gone, BA bailed before. The former routes unlikely to come back soon. Bmi for its own reasons axed GLA in its last years. So the situation can be fluid. My point is there is little value to the NI taxpayer paying KL to be here. BRU, now with Brexit, the same can be said. If there is commercial viability, give them the incentives on airport costs ( available to all new routes to all airlines), but not tax payers money!
I think that strategically NI needs to have a regalar link to the US, to NYC. We need to be open for business on a direct basis. So there is some value in supporting this route. Though the question is for his long. I believe that the market may be more akin to a Norwegian type operator, with lower costs.
Ultimately, a UK outside of the EU, the shackles may come off in terms of the rules and rigour by which subventions can be paid to airlines and airports. May we see much more of this in the future?
DC9, very interesting commentary and when collectively summed up in one post, it is so clear the level of funds being granted to airlines and the level of subventions being paid to airports.
The question is, does the taxpayer get value for money? In most cases, I guess not. KLM gives great connectivity through AMS, but the lions share of their passengers are connecting at AMS. In many if not most cases this will be at the cost of LHR as a connecting point ( and Dublin in some cases too). If the granting bodies want to incentivise the likes of KL and SN that is all fine and well, but they need to be mindful of their LHR link. It should not be taken for granted, all too many parts of the domestic networks ex LHR have been canned, like LPL, NQY, JER, IOM, MME, BHX. We can ask reason away why these happened, but they are gone, BA bailed before. The former routes unlikely to come back soon. Bmi for its own reasons axed GLA in its last years. So the situation can be fluid. My point is there is little value to the NI taxpayer paying KL to be here. BRU, now with Brexit, the same can be said. If there is commercial viability, give them the incentives on airport costs ( available to all new routes to all airlines), but not tax payers money!
I think that strategically NI needs to have a regalar link to the US, to NYC. We need to be open for business on a direct basis. So there is some value in supporting this route. Though the question is for his long. I believe that the market may be more akin to a Norwegian type operator, with lower costs.
Ultimately, a UK outside of the EU, the shackles may come off in terms of the rules and rigour by which subventions can be paid to airlines and airports. May we see much more of this in the future?
Join Date: Nov 2011
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it's a two way street with BRU/AMS, and I'm sure EWR. My family were taking bets catching a flight back via BRU on how few people would be on board, it was nearly full, over 90% and hardly a local accent, like AMS loads of transfer pax and nearly all foreign tourists. I have to ask how they would arrive here if at all without such links being in place. EWR also is a good hub, I know plenty of people who have holidayed in Vegas and other cities and used the route - if it costs us to build/sustain such links maybe that's what needs done, people are asking for APD removal, its basically a more targeted version. Comparing EZY to KLM doesn't work, EZY being a point to point carrier with no connections, and BHD will be the choice of airport for business passenger focussed airlines for fairly obvious reasons.
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Airliners.net Southern Irish members implying that Dublin airport is only a 90 minute drive for most of us and that it would be relatively painless flying via there.
They forget that you have to be at Dublin airport 3 hours earlier so that means you have to leave home at least 6 hours before the flight.
The last time I flew from Dublin, I had to rise around 2am for a 10am flight. Being 170+ miles away for many of us, Dublin airport is rarely a feasible option for those of us who live further into Northern Ireland.
I paid an extra £100 per person to fly from Belfast to EWR in June to avoid going via Dublin this year and that is a choice that I personally do not regret. It was well worth it to avoid getting up at the crack of dawn and trapsing down there.
They forget that you have to be at Dublin airport 3 hours earlier so that means you have to leave home at least 6 hours before the flight.
The last time I flew from Dublin, I had to rise around 2am for a 10am flight. Being 170+ miles away for many of us, Dublin airport is rarely a feasible option for those of us who live further into Northern Ireland.
I paid an extra £100 per person to fly from Belfast to EWR in June to avoid going via Dublin this year and that is a choice that I personally do not regret. It was well worth it to avoid getting up at the crack of dawn and trapsing down there.
Last edited by owenc; 14th Aug 2016 at 08:40.
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it's a two way street with BRU/AMS, and I'm sure EWR. My family were taking bets catching a flight back via BRU on how few people would be on board, it was nearly full, over 90% and hardly a local accent, like AMS loads of transfer pax and nearly all foreign tourists. I have to ask how they would arrive here if at all without such links being in place. EWR also is a good hub, I know plenty of people who have holidayed in Vegas and other cities and used the route - if it costs us to build/sustain such links maybe that's what needs done, people are asking for APD removal, its basically a more targeted version. Comparing EZY to KLM doesn't work, EZY being a point to point carrier with no connections, and BHD will be the choice of airport for business passenger focussed airlines for fairly obvious reasons.
Currency exchange rates are awful for the Euro now anyway so as users of Pound Sterling we would get less value for our money.
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Fuel is still relatively cheap today, yet United require state subsidy to maintain BFS on high 80's LF..?
Subsidies, no APD, cheap fares; even Durham Teeside could fill a 757 with that level of support.
Well played United; laughing all the way to the bank.
This must be the last life support injection for what seems more and more like a vanity project. Political meddling and fiscal irresponsibility on a grand scale.
If they go, they go; leave it Norwegian or their ilk once the 737MAXs or neos come on line.
Subsidies, no APD, cheap fares; even Durham Teeside could fill a 757 with that level of support.
Well played United; laughing all the way to the bank.
This must be the last life support injection for what seems more and more like a vanity project. Political meddling and fiscal irresponsibility on a grand scale.
If they go, they go; leave it Norwegian or their ilk once the 737MAXs or neos come on line.
What I want to know is how this "bribe" that has been handed to UA can possibly be legal under EU law; why the Welsh assembly wouldn't insist that Westminster sanction similar action to secure long haul out of Cardiff - and when the Irish Government is going to cry foul and complain to the European Commission.
Just to remind the (minority) who voted to leave the EU in NI; the UK is still a apart of the EU, and will remain to until at least the end of 2018 - subject to the same rules as we are now.
Just to remind the (minority) who voted to leave the EU in NI; the UK is still a apart of the EU, and will remain to until at least the end of 2018 - subject to the same rules as we are now.
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Totally agree you you EI-BUD. The NYC route needs to be maintained and UA are aware of that, therefore they played a game and won. Regarding EZY over KLM, dident a manager from KLM say the problem with the Belfast route was a very a low percentage of people were transferring and they need to get that up. I know from experience that quite a lot of transferring passengers use EZY as a fair few landing cards were always handed out when I operated them. As for SN, not many connecting options and stats speak for themselves.
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ATNotts
I don't think the Irish government dare say a word about state assistance when it comes to airlines. EI, love them though I do wouldn't be around now if it wasn't for bailouts even despite the EU saying they were illegal, yet of all when the Hungarian government fell foul with Europe Malev was assisted into destruction. Plenty other enhancements offered to airlines, EI is being funded to land in Hartford Connecticut for instance, also several regional French airport's have offered subsidies to FR - the same airline that cried foul about EI.
I don't think the Irish government dare say a word about state assistance when it comes to airlines. EI, love them though I do wouldn't be around now if it wasn't for bailouts even despite the EU saying they were illegal, yet of all when the Hungarian government fell foul with Europe Malev was assisted into destruction. Plenty other enhancements offered to airlines, EI is being funded to land in Hartford Connecticut for instance, also several regional French airport's have offered subsidies to FR - the same airline that cried foul about EI.
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ATNotts
I don't think the Irish government dare say a word about state assistance when it comes to airlines. EI, love them though I do wouldn't be around now if it wasn't for bailouts even despite the EU saying they were illegal, yet of all when the Hungarian government fell foul with Europe Malev was assisted into destruction. Plenty other enhancements offered to airlines, EI is being funded to land in Hartford Connecticut for instance, also several regional French airport's have offered subsidies to FR - the same airline that cried foul about EI.
I don't think the Irish government dare say a word about state assistance when it comes to airlines. EI, love them though I do wouldn't be around now if it wasn't for bailouts even despite the EU saying they were illegal, yet of all when the Hungarian government fell foul with Europe Malev was assisted into destruction. Plenty other enhancements offered to airlines, EI is being funded to land in Hartford Connecticut for instance, also several regional French airport's have offered subsidies to FR - the same airline that cried foul about EI.
By the way it does not require a Goverment to complain to the EC about it, any member of the public can raise it and the EC will look and investigate if appropriate.
I really don't think EI are worried at all about it, they will still continue to fill planes ex DUB with some NI pax. They didn't raise the APD cut with Europe when I expect they would have a good case given the ruling handed down to ROI about varied APD in a State.
EI packing in BFS has left a big chip on people's shoulder
If EI announced they would operate a NY route for the 9 million I expect people would be only delighted.
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Well I actually think EI did the right thing moving to BHD but what you are saying about Hartford escapes the fact they will receive 5million USD worth of fee waivers and marketing support over 2 years. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, I'm proving a point that it's now common practice and airlines are working it to their advantage, in the same way businesses get start up support or tax incentives.
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EI lost the LGW route against their wishes. Running a crew base for 1 aircraft in winter doesn't make sense, it would be worth looking at SNN operation to see it can work with non based crew, they are cutting costs in the light of massive competition in the LON market. They have flights on sale from BHD well into summer 2017 and they don't announce summer sun from here until about Oct normally so I wouldn't engage in too much conjecture about the unknown, and it's also worth pointing out they lost millions at BFS, and to their credit tried a lot of route options.
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EI lost the LGW route against their wishes. Running a crew base for 1 aircraft in winter doesn't make sense, it would be worth looking at SNN operation to see it can work with non based crew, they are cutting costs in the light of massive competition in the LON market. They have flights on sale from BHD well into summer 2017 and they don't announce summer sun from here until about Oct normally so I wouldn't engage in too much conjecture about the unknown, and it's also worth pointing out they lost millions at BFS, and to their credit tried a lot of route options.
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Anyone know what is up with DL161
Just noted it turning back and looking to be decending towards BFS
UPDATE: Looks to be headed to Dublin
Just noted it turning back and looking to be decending towards BFS
UPDATE: Looks to be headed to Dublin
Last edited by cheesymark; 15th Aug 2016 at 11:01.