BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL
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In terms of cost-base, Ryanair's network CASM for 2014 was €0.055. Easyjet's was around €0.120 from what I can determine ( they don't include it in their annual reports ); yes, more than twice and on-par with Southwest, their role-model.
They have no real way of going down and fighting at Ryanair's level without totally restructuring the airline; but why would they, being comfortably profitable as-is? vice versa, Ryanair can't become a mid-tier airline with a good reputation without taking measures that will increase CASM.
The only European airline that can really compete with Ryanair is Norwegian, with a CASM down around €0.060. Best let them dog-fight with Mr O'Leary for the low end of the market. Reminds me of a quip about the Iran-Iraq war; "it's a pity they can't both lose".
They have no real way of going down and fighting at Ryanair's level without totally restructuring the airline; but why would they, being comfortably profitable as-is? vice versa, Ryanair can't become a mid-tier airline with a good reputation without taking measures that will increase CASM.
The only European airline that can really compete with Ryanair is Norwegian, with a CASM down around €0.060. Best let them dog-fight with Mr O'Leary for the low end of the market. Reminds me of a quip about the Iran-Iraq war; "it's a pity they can't both lose".
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
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El bunto,
Can't argue with what you are saying. However, yes easyJet is profitable as is, but taking the longer view when FR continually elbows in on easyJet routes, like has been more notable of late like BFS and STN EDI and GLA and increased competition on the continental Europe from like in Italy where easyJet closed Rome base and set up as new made in Venice.... EasyJet future profits will be challenged in the current form. That's my point.
While FR has lowest costs, following by Norwegian, Wizz and Vueling, consistently FR strategy has been to under cut rivals to uncommercial levels like it did with Go ex ROI and easyJet ex ROI too. In these instances coat base meant nothing it was willingnews to burn cash and kill the competition that won out.
It is all fine and well saying let FR and DY fight it out at the lower end of the market, but FR is improving and I cannot see clear water between FR and easyJet, so easyJet needs to be sure about who and what it is in the future... Therefore defining what is the lower end of the market...
Can't argue with what you are saying. However, yes easyJet is profitable as is, but taking the longer view when FR continually elbows in on easyJet routes, like has been more notable of late like BFS and STN EDI and GLA and increased competition on the continental Europe from like in Italy where easyJet closed Rome base and set up as new made in Venice.... EasyJet future profits will be challenged in the current form. That's my point.
While FR has lowest costs, following by Norwegian, Wizz and Vueling, consistently FR strategy has been to under cut rivals to uncommercial levels like it did with Go ex ROI and easyJet ex ROI too. In these instances coat base meant nothing it was willingnews to burn cash and kill the competition that won out.
It is all fine and well saying let FR and DY fight it out at the lower end of the market, but FR is improving and I cannot see clear water between FR and easyJet, so easyJet needs to be sure about who and what it is in the future... Therefore defining what is the lower end of the market...
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Antrim
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Well in the end FR have committed very little to BFS, remember as has been said LGW is not a core FR airport and its possible the BFS route will be chopped when the agreement allows. Looking at the reaction on UTV last night it looked like FR were coming in waving demands at Stormont before they'd even touched down. The general reaction seems to be Stormont is looking at a route development fund, if they have any sense that will be for new routes not for airlines to subsidise £9.99 fares to Liverpool.
As for treatment of employees yes indeed not too many of us know the real details but have a look online and see all the cases and complaints against FR, some from pilots and predominantly from cabin crew, and don't be under the myth you will hear local accents on the tannoy too often selling lottery tickets. FR recruit crew cheaply as possible from the likes of eastern Europe and Italy, on Irish temp contracts. To be fair there's very few such complaints about EZY, who give the impression anyway of being quite progressive employment wise.
As for treatment of employees yes indeed not too many of us know the real details but have a look online and see all the cases and complaints against FR, some from pilots and predominantly from cabin crew, and don't be under the myth you will hear local accents on the tannoy too often selling lottery tickets. FR recruit crew cheaply as possible from the likes of eastern Europe and Italy, on Irish temp contracts. To be fair there's very few such complaints about EZY, who give the impression anyway of being quite progressive employment wise.
Join Date: Oct 2009
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A well structured route development fund would be welcomed by all. However the one that provided a Euro525k package for BHD - AMS, a destination already served from BIA and a significant support package for BHD - BCN, again already served from BIA, can't say exactly how much as my FOI request was refused on 'commercial grounds', is a farce.
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Competition
I am amazed by the level of negativity on this forum. I wonder what the responses would have been had FR chose BHD again. Probably very different. I have worked for BMI and EZY for over 20 years in total and no longer in aviation, still maintain lots of contacts. I can suggest the press and speculators have some routes wrong and that FR won't be stepping on U2s shoes all that much. As for employee T and Cs at U2, that's a different story.
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Wrong there DC9_10, every new route at BHD is met with criticism and accusations of brown envelope style political interference and calls for one Belfast or indeed NI airport. When Wizzair arrived there was a lot of positivity on here along with most new routes from BFS. I think people are too long in the tooth where Ryanair are concerned. The mere suggestion of BRU and BCN smacks of wiping competitors out of the market, lest they affect their DUB operations. If they were serious about Belfast they'd never have left. It is good news to have another operator and I wish them well, I hope it brings tourism and jobs. What I don't want to see is everyone else ran out like wizzair at ORK by FR only for them to ditch us in a huff having undone years of trying to get operators like SN, VY, KLM etc.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belfast
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EZY already have a long established relationship with BFS and its passangers, so I think that it will still keep plenty of its passengers even if RYR do provide some competition. Obviously, with the low prices that RYR can provide, a number of passengers will also be swayed towards RYR but overall the introduction of RYR can only be a positive thing. Those who traveled to Dublin before may no longer feel the need to as they will (hopefully) be able to get similar flights from BFS from RYR for the same price. Not only this but RYR will surely intice more incoming passangers with their low prices. Also I remember talk of this Ryanair transatlantic service being a possibility a few years back, is this still in the pipeline? If so this could be further good news for BFS. IF they are still here in a couple of years maybe a transatlantic flight could be on the cards who knows. I dont understand why everybody is jumping to conclusions with all these negativites, cheaper flights + new flights = happy costumers.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: County Armagh
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As far as I'm aware they ditched the idea of operating transatlantic themselves and then looked at codeshare with other operators from LGW, this idea also fell through I believe. It's a pity though as I reckon it would have worked ok.
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Welcome FR
Im delighted FR are opening at BFS. A trip to London is now on the cards as my airfare is cheap. Im crossing my fingers for Berlin as i love the city and miss going since Easy dropped the flight. Im also hoping BGY will appear in the future as i travel to italy regularly. Welcome FR, no moaning from me, just happy to see another airline arrive.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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A number of years ago, I vowed never to use FR again unless I had absolutely no alternative. The level of customer service was utterly atrocious. So I'm in two minds about their arrival at BFS. It would be very sad if their presence damaged the EZY route structure...I've always found EZY to be reliable and generally a pleasant experience.
That said, if FR open new routes from Belfast, and carry though on their recent move to improve the customer experience, then I might give them another go. LGW South is probably the easiest way for me to get to business meetings in London, and they may do well there.
As to the other routes they are promising? Hopefully Germany and Italy...two obvious gaps in current offerings from Belfast.
Actually, just had a nosey at the FR website...Business Plus actually looks tempting...
That said, if FR open new routes from Belfast, and carry though on their recent move to improve the customer experience, then I might give them another go. LGW South is probably the easiest way for me to get to business meetings in London, and they may do well there.
As to the other routes they are promising? Hopefully Germany and Italy...two obvious gaps in current offerings from Belfast.
Actually, just had a nosey at the FR website...Business Plus actually looks tempting...
Last edited by NWSRG; 9th Jan 2016 at 09:35. Reason: Business Plus
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I would love to be able to fly these 3 direct from Belfast, though 2 of them were not in the list i saw of future destinations. Then again with all the hype and rumour who knows what O'Leary will pull out of his sleeve. As for the dig at Stormont to drop APD, who does he think he's trying to kid??
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Totally can see Eastern Europe being in the cards, and Berlin is a good city break destination and good location for Eastern Europe access . Though Helsinki is completely random, they don't fly there as it sits from anywhere, so dont see this as remotely credible
If there are too be three aircraft based, they'll need some routes off volume.
If there are too be three aircraft based, they'll need some routes off volume.
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There's great debate on the thread about FR and U2.
Like Lidl and Aldi, they have avoided competing directly in previous years, but it is getting harder to avoid each other!
FR still have a reputation problem while U2 seem to be flying high.
U2 are actually pretty aspirational, if you look at how their website and especially phone app function. It's a joy to use. FR are not there yet.
But, FR grow markets. So they will invariably impact U2 but will create many more passengers who would not have flown U2 in first place.
Interesting times. I don't think FR will compete head to head on many routes with U2... yet. Also, U2 are getting an entire terminal at LGW so I think will end up offering something more to BFS pax. I can even imagine U2 offering connecting flights as competition in Europe heats up.
Like Lidl and Aldi, they have avoided competing directly in previous years, but it is getting harder to avoid each other!
FR still have a reputation problem while U2 seem to be flying high.
U2 are actually pretty aspirational, if you look at how their website and especially phone app function. It's a joy to use. FR are not there yet.
But, FR grow markets. So they will invariably impact U2 but will create many more passengers who would not have flown U2 in first place.
Interesting times. I don't think FR will compete head to head on many routes with U2... yet. Also, U2 are getting an entire terminal at LGW so I think will end up offering something more to BFS pax. I can even imagine U2 offering connecting flights as competition in Europe heats up.
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SealinkBF
In terms of LGW, as it stands easyJet have a fantastic proposition at LGW. With easyJet Plus, you get a priority channel which is for security check, going into departures. I've used this and been usually only 1 of about 5/6 people there at any time, complete joy, while the regular queue gets v busy and crowded. This facility make flying easyJet a very relaxed experience.
Agreed on the technology bit, very good indeed...
In terms of LGW, as it stands easyJet have a fantastic proposition at LGW. With easyJet Plus, you get a priority channel which is for security check, going into departures. I've used this and been usually only 1 of about 5/6 people there at any time, complete joy, while the regular queue gets v busy and crowded. This facility make flying easyJet a very relaxed experience.
Agreed on the technology bit, very good indeed...
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Once significant difference is that Ryanair develop their website and apps internally in their Ryanair Labs division.
Easyjet outsource their app development to Mobile Travel Technologies who basically drape an orange skin over their standard components. When the Easyjet app goes wrong, as it often does for me on simple tasks like downloading a boarding pass, there is no-one to take responsibility or file a bug. 'Just go onto the website, sir'.
By the way they're not IATA members so saying U2 is technically incorrect.
Easyjet outsource their app development to Mobile Travel Technologies who basically drape an orange skin over their standard components. When the Easyjet app goes wrong, as it often does for me on simple tasks like downloading a boarding pass, there is no-one to take responsibility or file a bug. 'Just go onto the website, sir'.
By the way they're not IATA members so saying U2 is technically incorrect.