BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sunny spain
Posts: 792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely If EI flights are from bfs they will want to fly from bfs themselves to keep it all under one roof. ie if pax miss a flight with Ei they can get on the next BA flight from BFS etc or if a flight arrives late into heathrow they can get on the next code sharing flight, in my opinion and knowledge it is too expensive to split over 2 airports. Also if all put under 1 roof at BFS that is potentially an extra 400,000 pax however I think if this did happen BFS would need a new airbridge
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sunny spain
Posts: 792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes but code sharing with BE to Gatwick is alot cheaper than heathrow therefore BFS with EI is the better option and also has no time restrictions or runway therefore if a A321 is needed, then there is no problems
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Belfast, UK
Age: 43
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I heard BA might be getting Aer Lingus to operate the route for them because of their codeshares
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Holywood
Age: 50
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would Willy give EI, Which is now a rival airline on the Irish Sea hop a bit if his income? Should I say empire.
He has control now and the books Business travelers want city to city and they pay to do it
I would say BHD will suit him well.
He has control now and the books Business travelers want city to city and they pay to do it
I would say BHD will suit him well.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dog in the park, yes biz pax want city to city but with restrictions in place like shortened opening hrs, short runway, these will mean;
~issues where aircraft get delayed and can't get into BHD before 2130, cost implication
~lack of flexibility to schedule arrivals later than the curfew time if necessary
~peak seasons no opportunity to put on bigger aircraft e.g. 767 etc
Doesn't give the same flexibility as BFS.
Not convinced BA will favour BHD in the long term. I have always felt that BA will have no interest in point to point traffic ex Belfast , instead interlining pax, and EI and BE have these covered well.
We will have to wait and C!
Good luck to one and all employed by BMI/baby and potentially Ba in NI. Take note Glasgow and Edinburgh situation, no crew base?
~issues where aircraft get delayed and can't get into BHD before 2130, cost implication
~lack of flexibility to schedule arrivals later than the curfew time if necessary
~peak seasons no opportunity to put on bigger aircraft e.g. 767 etc
Doesn't give the same flexibility as BFS.
Not convinced BA will favour BHD in the long term. I have always felt that BA will have no interest in point to point traffic ex Belfast , instead interlining pax, and EI and BE have these covered well.
We will have to wait and C!
Good luck to one and all employed by BMI/baby and potentially Ba in NI. Take note Glasgow and Edinburgh situation, no crew base?
Last edited by EI-BUD; 31st Mar 2012 at 16:43.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Holywood
Age: 50
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
21.30 is the last time you can schedule a flight. You can land a flight up to 2359. The 2130 cut off is a fable in the media to wind up the locals .anyway an opperation like BA shoiuld not have that many delays. A 767 maybe two weeks a year? Dont think that would worry BA.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: dodging CB clouds
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It certainly will be interesting to see what happens regrading the BMI merge into BA/IAG.
Its hard to ignore looking at what has happened in Glasgow recently, whereby the withdrawl of BMI led BA to take all the market, and use the 767 each weekday morning over the winter, but would there be a similar demand in Belfast??? It'll be interesting to see if similar things happen at Edinburgh, since I think some EDI slots are part of the sacrifice BA need to make to let the takeover go through.
My 2 cents (and its just an opinion) is that BA will continue to use Aer Lingus as a codeshare from Aldergrove.. with slots at a premium, and the openly admitted desire to expand more in Long Haul out of Heathrow, why would BA ruin an agreement that works to their advantage? Sure, he could pull out of the codeshare and take all the business, but is Walsh going to want to part with more slots that he would rather use elsewhere?
Incidently, the based EI A319, is it to operate mainly international flights, or the London run?
BMI manage to operate upto half a dozen flights a weekday, mostly on the 319s, occasionally the 320s. Even if BA reduce the number of flights a little, and utilise the likes of theA320 and A321 more often, there should still be enough capacity available with just that.
Regarding any preference to BFS over BHD, and performance issues, there are no real issues for an A321 operating into Belfast City. Thomas cook can operate the higher capacity A321 direct to Spain so the lower capacity BA 321 (188 seats or so) to Heathrow should be easier, though they do go through brakes a lot quicker at Belfast
BHD2BFS- what you said about keeping it all under one roof, and having both operate from Aldergrove will suit the passenger that, as you said, needs a quick transfer to another flight to Heathrow, however i'm not convinced or aware of any financial benefits of having both operate together against two airports, as they're both seperate companies, and both have their own prices and arrangements with the airports, handling agents etc. regardless of what airport they use. If, for example they were to merge, or self employ more staff, rather than outsource, then it would be a massive benefit to have all under one roof. You could also argue that having access to Heathrow and BA connections from both airports could appeal to a wider market, and keep everyone happy.
Lastly, and probably a long shot thought, but if Willie Walsh wants to return properly to NI, could we see Cityflyer operating from London City, or the Gatwick 734s? (the latter could hurt the Flybe codeshare though). It might be a limited market, but it seems to do well to other cities on mainland UK.
Its hard to ignore looking at what has happened in Glasgow recently, whereby the withdrawl of BMI led BA to take all the market, and use the 767 each weekday morning over the winter, but would there be a similar demand in Belfast??? It'll be interesting to see if similar things happen at Edinburgh, since I think some EDI slots are part of the sacrifice BA need to make to let the takeover go through.
My 2 cents (and its just an opinion) is that BA will continue to use Aer Lingus as a codeshare from Aldergrove.. with slots at a premium, and the openly admitted desire to expand more in Long Haul out of Heathrow, why would BA ruin an agreement that works to their advantage? Sure, he could pull out of the codeshare and take all the business, but is Walsh going to want to part with more slots that he would rather use elsewhere?
Incidently, the based EI A319, is it to operate mainly international flights, or the London run?
BMI manage to operate upto half a dozen flights a weekday, mostly on the 319s, occasionally the 320s. Even if BA reduce the number of flights a little, and utilise the likes of theA320 and A321 more often, there should still be enough capacity available with just that.
Regarding any preference to BFS over BHD, and performance issues, there are no real issues for an A321 operating into Belfast City. Thomas cook can operate the higher capacity A321 direct to Spain so the lower capacity BA 321 (188 seats or so) to Heathrow should be easier, though they do go through brakes a lot quicker at Belfast
BHD2BFS- what you said about keeping it all under one roof, and having both operate from Aldergrove will suit the passenger that, as you said, needs a quick transfer to another flight to Heathrow, however i'm not convinced or aware of any financial benefits of having both operate together against two airports, as they're both seperate companies, and both have their own prices and arrangements with the airports, handling agents etc. regardless of what airport they use. If, for example they were to merge, or self employ more staff, rather than outsource, then it would be a massive benefit to have all under one roof. You could also argue that having access to Heathrow and BA connections from both airports could appeal to a wider market, and keep everyone happy.
Lastly, and probably a long shot thought, but if Willie Walsh wants to return properly to NI, could we see Cityflyer operating from London City, or the Gatwick 734s? (the latter could hurt the Flybe codeshare though). It might be a limited market, but it seems to do well to other cities on mainland UK.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Incidently, the based EI A319, is it to operate mainly international flights,
or the London run?
Hi there flying officer kite, you raise some interesting points.
The fact that BA/IAG will have to surrender some slots (if that comes to pass) this will put an even great premium on the other slots that they get, and in order to fulfil any long haul ambitions that BA has, they will have fewer slots to use.
Belfast London unlike other domestics like ABZ, GLA, EDI etc, has an airline 'partner', i.e. Aer Lingus who can fulful the interlining requirements of BA without using their own slots. Aer Lingus winter flying program includes a 320 on London and the other European routes on 319. Where will the 2nd 319 go for the winter? Would be surprised to see it sent off to Dublin....1 lonely 319 unit in Dublin where it has not been used before? Watch this space? Another x4 daily on BFS LHR? With no competing BHD route that would work well. (Assuming EI got an extra 4 slot pairs)
I could never see BA touching LCY or LGW ex Belfast. When the SuperShuttle was operating LHR BFS when the main route to BFS was a London route, BA was not tempted by a LGW connection and LCY with AF (which was short lived from BHD which started when FR arrived and EI) didnt work. BA's experience across the Irish Sea from LCY has been poor, with LCY DUB being abandoned mid season due to dire loads. So my guess would be absolutely no. Would BA also want to enter the fray at BFS V Easyjet? Not likely. And would they want to step onto BE's busiest route (or certainly one of their busiest) when BE already feed passengers onto BA at LGW, seems unlikely to me.
EI-BUD
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would also seem that AerLingus have not finalised their winter schedule from Belfast, the European routes showing only up to end of October. This would seem late, I think last year was in place by now. London is already loaded/scheduled....
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dublin2
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying Officer Kite
Not so sure that there would be no restrictions on 321s operating to and from the city.
When bmi first started ops from the city, when the route was of sufficent size to merit a larger aircraft, there had to be some software modifications made to the aircraft to facilitate the short field operation. Perhaps the 321s you are referring to already have the modification completed.
Not so sure that there would be no restrictions on 321s operating to and from the city.
When bmi first started ops from the city, when the route was of sufficent size to merit a larger aircraft, there had to be some software modifications made to the aircraft to facilitate the short field operation. Perhaps the 321s you are referring to already have the modification completed.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: dodging CB clouds
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
some valid points, but like i said-time will tell
Ref the A321, i cant vouch for knowing anything about Airbus avionics, and i know the performance varies airport to airport, but by comparing runway lengths at a like for like basis, I am assuming the BA ones must be of a similar specification.. they have used the A321 in and out of Aberdeen and other similar runway lengths. Perhaps any BA/BMI crew can verify?
Interesting thought about Aer Lingus ramping up the number of services out of Aldergrove, but even 4 extra flights would barely/or only just about cover the gap left by all of BMI's flights (i see the BD85 is back again too). Also do they have enough spare slots? There was an outcry when, to start flights out of Belfast, some slots from Shannon were taken. Also as someone pointed out above, would Aer lingus operating the services contradict what Walsh said about BA returning to NI???
The codeshare already exists, and has done for a while, so if his plan was to only use Aer Lingus to cover the market after the BA/BMI merge, why would he say he intends to return to Belfast/NI??
As for my comment about BA LGW/LCY ops, just wishful thinking on my behalf. I miss those steep approaches from the days of British European, and Cityjet never did well when they tried it..
Ref the A321, i cant vouch for knowing anything about Airbus avionics, and i know the performance varies airport to airport, but by comparing runway lengths at a like for like basis, I am assuming the BA ones must be of a similar specification.. they have used the A321 in and out of Aberdeen and other similar runway lengths. Perhaps any BA/BMI crew can verify?
Interesting thought about Aer Lingus ramping up the number of services out of Aldergrove, but even 4 extra flights would barely/or only just about cover the gap left by all of BMI's flights (i see the BD85 is back again too). Also do they have enough spare slots? There was an outcry when, to start flights out of Belfast, some slots from Shannon were taken. Also as someone pointed out above, would Aer lingus operating the services contradict what Walsh said about BA returning to NI???
The codeshare already exists, and has done for a while, so if his plan was to only use Aer Lingus to cover the market after the BA/BMI merge, why would he say he intends to return to Belfast/NI??
As for my comment about BA LGW/LCY ops, just wishful thinking on my behalf. I miss those steep approaches from the days of British European, and Cityjet never did well when they tried it..
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dublin2
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It will all be sorted shortly and the important thing is that NI does not lose a vital link to the rest of the world. The NI airports should be working on getting a viable alternative connecting service with a European operator that would ultimately reduce the reliance on LHR and reduce the number of passengers still coming to DUB.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Holywood
Age: 50
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would not worry about the BA Airbus getting in to BHD. Sure are they not flying the olympic torch into the city. that will be a nice start for the spotters (stir the pot dot com)