Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Jet2 4

Old 21st Mar 2015, 23:20
  #2281 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Tyne and Wear
Posts: 172
The need for a big 'like' button on PPRuNe.... I think you have hit the nail, bang in the centre of the head Big Tudor.

I do find the desire to be so damning about ones employer on a public website curious to say the least.
Let's hope for Sean's sake that none of his bosses have any knowledge of this public website. But then of course if they did, and handed him his P45, he'd probably be happy to leave, right? So then why does he not leave on his own account???

A like button would be of great use for Flightrider's comment:

Disgraceful way for a regulator to behave
You're right, it is an absolute degradation of a national regulator. Do the CAA just want to see LCC's out of business? (Let that be the Mirror, and their ridiculous reports)

Last edited by Jet2_738; 22nd Mar 2015 at 15:40.
Jet2_738 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 08:18
  #2282 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 4,448
CAA's morally reprehensible actions in launching this press release on a Saturday.
You having a laugh? CAA picking on the poor rule-breaking LCC??

I'm sure the CAA just want LCC's to follow the rules and not to pick and chose which one's they like.

That's not the way the world works and a bit rich to cry foul when you get caught out.
SWBKCB is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 10:09
  #2283 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: MAN
Posts: 305
Yes, that's right SWBKCB. Although many of us might agree that the rules are harsh, Jet2 have exhausted all of the legal appeal processes and they now have to comply with the law. That includes a six-year limit on claims.

You can't blame CAA for seeking to ensure that all airlines now comply with the law.

Jet2 mustn't get a reputation for being recalcitrant - once you get such a reputation it's really difficult to shake it off, as Ryanair know only too well.
BasilBush is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 11:13
  #2284 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Down Sarf
Age: 43
Posts: 140
I suppose if you choose to operate ancient aircraft then you must be prepared for the downside which is the numerious delays that afflict jet 2 ..you cannot have it all ways
spottilludrop is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 11:15
  #2285 (permalink)  

Pilot of the Airwaves
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Close to the Med
Age: 70
Posts: 811
Exactly Basil.

These laws were made to be complied with by all airlines and Jet2 should by now have realised that includes them.

Irrespective of the personal views of people on this thread, the CAA are acting correctly in ensuring compliance.
IB4138 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 12:49
  #2286 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newcastle NI
Posts: 824
Jet2_738 talks out of his bottom again

Jet2_738 the CAA are not targeting low cost airlines or Jet2 their compliance action also targeted Aer-Lingus who are a scheduled carrier.

The enforcement action against Jet2 is because Jet2 have NOT complied with the rules, simples......whether you or Jet2 agree with the law is not relevant.

Jet2 go to considerable lengths to ensure they can recover from delays including aircraft and crews on standby in Spain and that is commendable.

They have the added problem that as an IT operator the responsibilities and costs when things go wrong is far higher than a pure LoCo operator that is not ATOL

They are operate at the bottom end of the market (buckets & spades) and that social group are far more likely to jump on the 'claims' band wagon, something for nothing to compensate that their 280 all in weeks holiday was wrecked by a delay of 3 hours.

Spotitiludrop is also correct, if you choose to operate aircraft that are anywhere between 3 -6 times older than your peer group average you are going to get more tech problems and delays, its the other side of the savings coin on new aircraft.

Jet2 will/have attracted a lot more claims by the publicity surrounding their refusal to pay up.
Facelookbovvered is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 15:36
  #2287 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Tyne and Wear
Posts: 172
Jet2_738 the CAA are not targeting low cost airlines or Jet2 their compliance action also targeted Aer-Lingus who are a scheduled carrier.
If you read Flightrider's comment in full, you'll realise that the idea is of them publishing such information on a Saturday, or in other words, gold dust for the Sunday papers, who have nothing else to complain about. Jet2 are not BA, and will never be. Their business will take more of a hit (over the weekend) than that of a national carrier (like Aer Lingus) will. That is where the LCC comment came from.

if you choose to operate aircraft that are anywhere between 3 -6 times older than your peer group average you are going to get more tech problems and delays, its the other side of the savings coin on new aircraft.
Jet2 are gradually renewing their fleet - Seriously, haven't we heard the argument about aircraft age the world over? Jet2, as I'm sure you will know, keep their aircraft in tip-top shape whether they're 13 or going on 30. Just because FR have a fleet of newer aircraft, does not make them much less immune to tech problems. The older aircraft 733's are all owned outright, quite the flip side of FR ops, where few are actually owned by them. The 733's are starting to be phased out, and replacing them, are the 738's (the same type of aircraft that FR operate). Jet2 are a relatively young airline. Just remember how EZY started out - with old, second-hand aircraft, and then struck a deal with Airbus, and well, you know the story. LS are almost half the age of EZY - give them a chance. As for:
Jet2_738 talks out of his bottom again
I mean - Really??
Jet2_738 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 16:07
  #2288 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newcastle NI
Posts: 824
Come on Jet2_738 Jet2 are not a young airline, just how long have Channex been around?

Whether they keep them in top condition or not does not eliminate 'aged' problems its as simple as that. J2 engineers do a great job, but drive a long any motorway for a year and yes you'll see the odd S class or Range rover stranded on the hard shoulder but overwhelmingly it is older vehicles, my point is simply this that Jet2/Channex historically have made a business decision to buy aged aircraft because they are less expensive to acquire and it suits their very seasonal business plan. I have no problem with that at all, but you have to expect and plan for higher maintenance costs, again J2 do that, what has changed is consumer legislation has ruled that airline can no longer use unexpected technical problems to doge paying compensation and that applies equally to new aircraft.

To my knowledge J2 does not publish delay information or its despatch rate.
Facelookbovvered is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 16:25
  #2289 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North, UK
Age: 62
Posts: 911
I know everyone loves a good conspiracy theory, but seriously does anyone believe that the CAA publishes on a Saturday just to get at Jet 2 in particular?

I am sorry but that really is carrying things too far.
pwalhx is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 17:07
  #2290 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: york
Posts: 67
There really is some rubbish written on here. Its a shame as some good hard facts also emerge.

I will declare my hand first.
i am a shareholder and have owned up to 2% of the group in the past.
PM has a 40% stake in this business and whilst clearly not perfect it must be said that his team have done a great job in building this company.
We have had growth of 100% a year for 4 years in the holiday division.
Shareholders have seen big gains in the price of their stock.

It is not right that employees should have a pop at the company from behind a plastic name on here.
Sean if you have done 35 years you are early/mid 50`s so Man up and go have it out.
You are paid about 100k a year for a 400 hr contract ( if you are full time) and nearly always get back to base.
Older aircraft do not mean more breakdowns. Having no backup creates the issue.
I left MAN on a MON flight due out 6.30 am at 10.30 pm a few years ago after it was decided to bump morning and pm flight on the 330.
So it happens...........even BA on new aircraft.
JET 2 do there best..........a few years ago out of Leeds a JET2 plane had gone tech in spain within 3 hours we were on a hired in 757 that had to return to Leeds after a possible fire on t/o.
result an overnight delay.it happens.
Flew last week to GV and back to LBA 757 out and an old 737 back.
both on time ( early actually) and great service.
Flight back had 2 captains and a fo in cockpit out and in ( any idea why guys).
New planes have a huge depreciation charge that you cannot cover by flying 2 sectors a day. they need to work.
The business model has always been ,good quality planes that are lower to fly than new.
castleford tiger is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 17:08
  #2291 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 4,448
and if they followed the rules, there wouldn't be anything to publish.
SWBKCB is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 17:12
  #2292 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: leeds
Age: 72
Posts: 242
I feel that the compensation rules are too generous at this end of the market. Maybe capping it within the EU rules at a maximum of twice the fare paid, including taxes etc, would be more reasonable? I wonder if those who created the EU rules really considered the LCC end of the market properly.
anothertyke is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 17:14
  #2293 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,176
The point I was making was that the CAA press release was so clearly timed to be a name and shame exercise that it's unacceptable. You have an organisation which is renowned for its Monday to Friday 0900 to 1700 culture and the only time it has ever put out press releases on weekends is in response to a major accident or tour operator failure. By publishing a pro-active release on a Saturday to be picked up by the Sunday press, it minimises the airline's ability to respond if it has something meaningful to say by way of counter-comment.

If it has an ongoing issue with Jet2 or other operators, this is not a professional and balanced way to go about it. It is superficial, subjective regulation that is sadly in keeping with the values of its CEO.
Flightrider is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 17:47
  #2294 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: MAN
Posts: 305
Anothertyke is probably right to question whether the EC considered LCCs when setting the rules. But that isn't the point, which is that the rules are now clear (at least in relation to technical delays) and airlines have no option but to comply. The compensation levels are set by the directive, and cannot be varied by the CAA or any other national body. By all means lobby for a change, but in the meantime comply with the rules as they stand.

As has been pointed out by others, Jet2's notoriety in relation to EU261 claims will only encourage people to claim. It has only itself to blame for being seen as tricksy. And it will take a long time for its reputation to recover.

The CAA's full report will be published tomorrow, showing how a wider group of airlines (not just the bad boys) are complying with EU261.
BasilBush is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 17:57
  #2295 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: EU
Age: 49
Posts: 246
Facelookbovvered:

To my knowledge J2 does not publish delay information or its despatch rate.
If any other airline publishes their delay information perhaps you would let us know.

In the meantime here are some CAA published statistics on complaints on cancelled and delayed flights for four airlines that have ATOL cover for their flights and which are comparable in their commercial activities during the period of 1 January 2014 and 30 September 2014.

The statistics offered by the CAA, as shown below, clearly demonstrate that JET2 may have the older fleet but also have less complaints concerning delays and cancellations than any of the other comparable airlines and by an enormous margin. Taking only the complaints for delays, JET2 should be congratulated for its excellent record in comparison with the other three airlines:

CAA Statistics Period: 01JAN2014 to 30SEP2014

Entity Cancellations Delays Other Total Complaints Passengers (m) Complaints per million passengers
Jet2.Com 15 543 98 656 6.1 108.4
Monarch Airlines 35 1931 88 2054 7.0 294.1
Thomas Cook Airlines 136 4434 281 4851 6.1 799.7
Thomson Airways 74 3080 266 3420 10.1 337.4


http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/complai...er_airline.pdf
DjerbaDevil is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 18:08
  #2296 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 4,448
The point I was making was that the CAA press release was so clearly timed to be a name and shame exercise that it's unacceptable. You have an organisation which is renowned for its Monday to Friday 0900 to 1700 culture and the only time it has ever put out press releases on weekends is in response to a major accident or tour operator failure. By publishing a pro-active release on a Saturday to be picked up by the Sunday press, it minimises the airline's ability to respond if it has something meaningful to say by way of counter-comment.

If it has an ongoing issue with Jet2 or other operators, this is not a professional and balanced way to go about it. It is superficial, subjective regulation that is sadly in keeping with the values of its CEO.
Remind me - what's a press release for? Another argument could be that the CAA isn't doing its duty if it doesn't attempt to reach the maximum target audience.
SWBKCB is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 18:14
  #2297 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: MAN
Posts: 305
There is a lot of info on airline delay stats, including vast detail on the CAA website. The following link provides a more user-friendly summary.

FLIGHTONTIME.info - Scheduled Airline Delays & Punctuality in the UK

Jet2 have improved over the last few years, but they are still some way down the list.
BasilBush is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 18:39
  #2298 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: EU
Age: 49
Posts: 246
If we look at the last 15 scheduled airlines in the FLIGHT_ON_TIME punctuality list, we find JET2 at number 27, with British Airways at number 26, Easyjet at number 22 and Ryanair at number 20. Below JET2 at number 28 is Emirates and at 29 we have Qatar Airways followed by Monarch Scheduled at number 33.

Considering the competing airlines and their brand new fleets, JET2 are doing very well to maintain their position among such strong competition.
DjerbaDevil is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 19:07
  #2299 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am.
Posts: 110
Good to see you sticking up for Jet2.com CT, always interesting to hear your opinions on the various share bulletin boards.

I agree wholeheartedly with any criticism of employees that berate the hand that feeds them behind a supposed cloak of invisibility. If you work for Jet2.com and don't like it then please take your moaning elsewhere, perhaps apply for a job with Utopia Airlines!

With regards to 2 Captains and one FO, there could be several reasons but most likely training or an annual check. Also CT please bear in mind that there are quite a lot of us that fly significantly more than 400 hours a year and that flying hours don't equate to duty hours; I regularly work 50 hour weeks!

Finally, with regards to EU261, yes it is law and yes it should be paid but this doesn't make it right. Can you imagine being able to claim 200 if your train is delayed or cancelled, claiming 100 from the Highways Agency when a road is blocked by a breakdown or 50 from your doctor if you are seen 30 minutes late. The compensation should match the service provided, any reputable airline, Jet2.com included, will provide meal vouchers or hotel accommodation when appropriate. Is it right that someone should be able to claim three times the cost of the service when there has been no incidental loss. The whole system is far too heavily skewed to the consumer especially with regards to LCC who are working with incredibly small profit margins, trying to provide a service and keeping thousands of staff employed.
rudolf is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 19:36
  #2300 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Tyne and Wear
Posts: 172
I have to agree with castleford tiger, though I personally would like to reiterate that I have no stake in Jet2, or am not in any way associated with them. I would also like to commend DjerbaDevil's comments too, and to Facelookbovvered, just take a look at the document, before making any rash or hasty judgements.

Is it right that someone should be able to claim three times the cost of the service when there has been no incidental loss.
It certainly isn't, and given the way this society has and is continuing to descend into, I wouldn't be surprised when it comes out that people are taking their doctors' surgery to court after been seen 30 minutes late!...

just how long have Channex been around?
Jet2 offered their first flight from LBA - AMS on 12th February 2003 - Thats just gone 12 years. Channex might have been around longer, but made no impact at all on the passenger market - see Dart Group History

Anyway, that said, as castleford tiger said, there has been 100% growth in the holidays part of the business, so Jet2 must be doing something right! It certainly isn't right that people hide behind websites like this, and slag off their company, and do it in such a manner, even whilst taking the company's dollar...

Older aircraft certainly doesn't mean more going tech. LS keep a good fleet, and although people like Sean Dillon disagree, they are the birds that give him his paycheck, and are obviously very profitable, and from my experience, certainly very smart inside too. Having been on many LS flights myself, and going on another this summer with Jet2holidays, I can say that each have been very smart (even the 28yr old 733QC's), and each have been early on arrival, including LS155 this summer, which went around at TFS, but still managed to land 7mins early. Even better on the return, I landed 32mins ahead of schedule, and even returning at 0100 in the morning, I can say that the crew who had done a full days work were very pleasant and had smiles on their faces as we disembarked. Irrespective of this, it is inevitable that any airline will get its fair share of delays, whether the aircraft has just rolled off the production line, or is going on 30.

The business model has always been, good quality planes that are lower to fly than new.
And it has, and continues to serve them very well indeed, taking the north on holiday, and that said, their business model of not touching London (unlike any other UK IT/LCC, is a very good one, and shows that the company is staying firm to its northern routes, and so it should!
Jet2_738 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.