SOUTHAMPTON

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "There are more middle managers and compliance of compliance managers than I government quango team."

Quote: It seems it makes good management sense to create a problem and then solve it. . . I guess it gives them a job!"

It's always the same, there's very little difference between government organisations/QANGOs and big business. Bungling, bureaucratic, ineffective and cumbersome, with too many layers of management, usually of an abysmal standard.

If you want lean and efficient, look at small business.

Regretable, but true. Why? because it's a case of taxpayers' or shareholders' money versus your own money, and you don't waste your own money!

[Nakata77]

BAA will not sell SOU

In my opinion, their ownership of SOU is strategic. If it got into the wrong hands it could potentially dent LHR traffic since SOU pulls in quite a fair amount of South and West London catchment. It is in their interest to keep SOU manageable in terms of size and scale.

[CaptAirProx]

GCIlover - I agree 10mins 'should' be enough time if firstly you know exactly where you are going, secondly all you are doing is dropping off - ie chuck em out the car and finally can be arsed with the hassle.

The last one is always going to be there, however watch how people baulk at the entrance to tha carpark, then dither, then drive slowly, probably parking in the wrong area and getting shouted at by 'authority'. Some passengers want to quickly wave their friends/family off into the terminal. Now I am not saying they should be allowed half hour to go fart around in the terminal but for most I bet you 10mins seems rather risky to dare chance it. (yes I know the 10mins isn't really 10mins according to BAA staff) but that is what is displayed on the matrix board. I think 15 or 20mins just gives the nervous time to fanny around, hugs n kisses and maybe escort the grandmother/father into the terminal and point them to the right desk.

The short stay carpark is hardly ever at capacity so it would be taking little or no revenue from BAA for extending it. But might release the danger and stress hotspot around the round about and barriers. It is both funny and frustrating watching the continuous argie bargie that goes on as someone breaks the rules. It really need not be like this. I find it rather pathetic that BAA have actually encouraged this to happen by their own policies. Yes there will always be the sod that breaks the rules, but I watch what I would normaly pre judge as good folk dumping their bags on the roundabout.

I want to be there when trigger happy SOU ATC press the crash alarm and all of Hampshires finest appliances come hurtling down the access road to be confronted with cars dumped on the roadabout, airport bus trapped mid swing and the UNIlink bus blocking the entrance to roundabout.

So health and safety guru's that BAA proclaim to be - can't see the wood for the trees. See now this would all be solved if the passengers were mandated to wear a high viz jacket - DONE UP - and life would return to a safe and secure environemt. Maybe this is the next project for some new upstart in the compliance of compliance office of elf and safety and line painting and sign making management?!?!?!

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "In my opinion, their ownership of SOU is strategic. If it got into the wrong hands it could potentially dent LHR traffic since SOU pulls in quite a fair amount of South and West London catchment. It is in their interest to keep SOU manageable in terms of size and scale."

Not so much south London, they have good links to LGW, but certainly west London, also parts of Middlesex and Surrey. It's certainly easier to get to than LTN and STN. A small regional airport like SOU is hardly a threat to LHR, as there's only a little overlap in the business. Even NHT, if it is ever opened up, would not threaten LHR in any way, and that is only 6 mi. away.

[MARKEYD]

THOMSON HOLIDAYS

Looks like Thomson / First choice are giving Southampton another go next summer with flights to Palma again , albeit using Flybe as the carrier of choice with 2 services a week throughout the summer season

Palma Friday 1700 and Monday 0900

Thomas Cook are operating again using Flybe

Palma Sat 0700
Ibiza Sat 1400
Mahon Sun 0740

[globetrotter79]

Looks very much like Thomson are simply buying seats on the existing flyBe scheduled services Fridays & Mondays SOU-PMI, whereas Thomas Cook are operating whole aircraft charters on their weekend Balearic flights..

[leisurelad]

I know this has probably been discussed before but i wonder what the performance range is of the following aircraft in max pax capacity and say 20kg bag each.

737-300/400/700
A319
A320

Maybe even an MD80

Thanks

[adfly]

leisurelad - don't know any exact figures and there are a lot of variables but i'd guess for most it is around 900-1000nmi (PMI/BCN-AGP/DBV/FAO sort of range) based on where airlines have flown those types previously.

Also does anyone else think Volotea would consider SOU if they chose to enter the UK market? They seem to be the sort of airline who may choose an airport like SOU away from the main Loco players and assuming the 717's performance off short runways is reasonably good then the type suits SOU well. Their main bases are also cities currently unserved from SOU (IBZ excluded). Could possibly see a couple of flights a week to VCE working along with IBZ and NTE in the summer although this would be on the condition of the routes not being trampled on by Flybe of course!

Also heard Cityjet may be going independent from Air France soonish as part of restructuring but I'm not sure how well they would be able to compete with Flybe if they ever did start any SOU routes.

Finally, flew from SOU recently and from a food and drink perspective things are looking quite good now and the terminal is as small and easy to get around as ever but there must be a way of fitting in a shop or two that isn't WHSmith!! Also now you can only pick up and drop off in the short stay car park but I suppose at least you get 10 minutes free! As for arrivals I can't comment as a 10 hour delay due to an Embraer going tech in ALC meant I ended up in BOH, which has a modern, basic and smallish arrivals terminal.

[adfly]

Tours

Also Flybe are dropping Tours from 18th August, I do hope they find some new routes/frequency's to replace this lost capacity!

[Nakata77]

Poor July'12 numbers

Southampton managed around 174,000 pax in Jul'12, but this was down 9% - the biggest fall the airport has seen I believe during the economic downturn.

Barcelona doesn't look as good as it should be considering this is one of the most demanded routes by the local population. Perhaps Vueling is not marketing itself well? Or Ryanair is fighting with its BOH-GRO service? Load factor was around 55%, an improvement on June which was only 38% but not terribly good for a peak month.

[adfly]

Not looking great I must admit. 55% is around 82/83 so not really awful but certainly in need of improvement by Loco standards. I'm hoping by the fact the route has been extended from Mid September to late October that things are looking up later on in the year and I think even considering the fairly low loads so far the route is yet to establish itself so I think Vueling will probably bring it back next year, hopefully putting it on sale earlier than they did this year as I feel they missed out on the peak 'Holiday Booking' time around January, which may contribute to the low loads in the early months.

There is however some good news, from October Flybe will close its LGW base and as a result will transfer its Nantes route to SOU. Not sure of the frequency but there will be 6 weekly slots available from FRA being dropped and a further 2 from TUF being dropped.

EDIT: A quick check of the Flybe website reveals the route will operate daily using the same time-frame as the Frankfurt flight Mon-Fri and Sun and an early morning flight on Sat. 21 rows on the seatmap so I'm assuming its a Q400.

[MARKEYD]

I think the Vuelling Barcelona figures are slightly less with 1827 passengers using the service in July on a A319 seating 150 passengers

More like an average of 70 passengers per flight or a 47 % load

[adfly]

W12 Summary

Aurigny:

ACI continues at a lower frequency than previous years (~2 Daily)

Blue Islands:

JER and GCI both around 3 Daily weekdays, with less at the weekend (J31/2)

Eastern:

Same as the summer 11 weekly ABZ and 6 weekly BRU. Mon-Fri flights are all J41 and Sun flights are all S20.

Flybe:

New Route:

Nantes Daily Q400

Dropped routes (vs last winter):

Frankfurt 6 weekly Q400
Brussles 5 weekly Q400
Isle of Man 5 weekly Q400
Berne 1 weekly Q400 (Peak Ski season only)

Also seems as though SOU will lose one of its 2 E195's for the winter to BHD although there isn't much for them to do, nowhere near as many Ski flights as last year. There is (1 Sat/Sun GVA, 1 Sat/Sun CMF, 1 Sat SZG) so less than half what was offered during the peak ski season last year. Also far fewer ski charter flights as well. However the EDI based flights for that route will be upgraded from a Q400 to an E175 (around 3 daily flights, 4 Mon and Fri) so theres some small good news to go with the Nantes route!

Skybus:

IOS operates as it has last year 3 weekly via NQY. (DHT)

Thomas Cook: Nothing for the winter but back next summer with PMI, MAH and IBZ.

Thomson: As above but selling seats on Flybe's PMI service next summer.

Vueling: BCN looking to be seasonal, hopefully they will have a better go at it next year!

[Nakata77]

If I was Flybe CEO

I would be adding the following routes from Southampton:

Copenhagen - 5 weekly E-175
Knock - summer only E-195
Madrid - daily E-195
Prague 3 weekly E-175
Innsbruck - winter only E-175
Warsaw - 3 or 4 weekly E-175
Krakow - 3 weekly E-175
Berlin - 4 weekly E-175
Hamburg - daily E-175
Rome - daily E-195
Venice - 3 weekly E-195
Vienna - 3 weekly E-175
Derry - 3 weekly E-175
Shannon - 4 weekly E-175
Lyon - 4 weekly E-175
Oslo - 4 weekly E-175
Stockholm - 4 weekly E-175
Bergen - 3 weekly E-195
Helsinki - 3 weekly E-195
Gdansk - 2 weekly E-175

Still so much potential but they don't seem to be capitalising on it.

[davidjohnson6]

Nakata - a lot of new airports and routes for flybe there... opening them all might incur quite a high level of risk. Perhaps there is a smaller set of new routes that could be tried initially instead ?

[Nakata77]

Forgive me - of course not all at the same time; that would be a very risky move. Can be phased over 3 years. But my point is they need to be more aggressive. The routes are out there for the plucking. But they don't seem to be moving?

[adfly]

Two routes missing from that ideal lot, Milan 5-7 weekly E175 and Cork 4-7 weekly Q400 (More likely with Aer Lingus Regional is you ask me though)

However I think they would have to be added very slowly and even then I think we will have to wait until the economy picks up. The short Irish routes such as Derry, Knock and Shannon would also be best served by Q400's and I would also add that most routes would have to be built up to those sorts of frequency's and equipment as will the airport itself (Only stands 1-5 can handle E175's and 2-5 for E195's!) and I would imagine BAA would also have to find a way of making more space in the terminal, ideally with a couple more shops, as there's only 2 currently!!

I personally would like to see Flybe expand from SOU but at a slower rate than other and new airlines, thus reducing their dominance and also the airports dependability on them.

[anne747380]

Can't believe,they are taking out another E-195 from Soton,now we will have one left,that's a joke.Does that mean,I will have to suffer the dreadful Q400 to Manchester as well?Bad enough to go on them to Hannover all the time.Isn't it about time,Flybe upgrade to a E-Jet on the SOU-HAJ route,the plane is always full so there is demand there.Hope,we will get some other airlines now,who use jets.

[adfly]

1 of the Manchester flights will be on an E175 during the winter season and I think the mid afternoon one is still an E195. I think we'll eventually see an E175 based at SOU hopefully next year at some point when more join the fleet although there is only room for 2/3 (Should still get 3 E195's on Summer weekends) to be based here anyway, thanks to the lack of stands for taller aircraft (Only 1-5).

[Cloud1]

Anne, the problem is if Flybe will react to demand. If a jet can be filled on a domestic or short haul European route out of Manchester, but not Southampton logic will mean that aircraft is transferred. If they didnt and they just allowed seats to go empty, the airline might not be here in 12 months time so your trips to Manchester or Hannover could be a little more tricky.

I know the Q400 is like marmite, you either love it or hate it - however I would only be too pleased to have our local airport be as big as Southampton full of Q400 aircraft opening up new destinations to me and my family. I do not care what type of plane it is because convenience would outweigh that in my eyes. As long as they are not expecting me to fly over to Avignon in a Twin Otter, I wouldnt care less. And yes, I have been on the Q400 several times and its certainly an improvement on the older -300 or other prop driven aircraft in operation.

Whilst I admire the route suggestions on here, if Flybe were in a position to simply test the water at some of those destinations they would have done it by now. The fact is times are tough (although not as bad as made out in the press) and they have to juggle whats left of the fleet, as best they can. Starting a new route requires a huge amount of financial investment in marketing and other bits on top of the operational costs so making money in the current network is whats going to be their priority right now.

Having said that, Flybe have finally cottoned on to the fact that there is demand between BHX and AMS. This shows that they are still keeping an eye on the market and if an opportunity should arise at somewhere like Southampton I am sure they will have a go if they feel fully confident it will be a success.

Southampton plays a crucial role in Flybes network and to date it is still one of the largest bases. It takes an awful lot of passengers who would otherwise use Londons main airports and is something they will want to keep hold of. Just because some routes have been chopped does not mean the investment is not there.

It is ironic though because people are crying out for new routes from Southampton from Flybe, and a bigger presence. But throw in a cancellation due tech and all of a sudden they are the worst thing going. But thats just the way the industry goes I guess