Virgin Atlantic
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Originally Posted by The Big Easy
What 'big EDI/LHR expansion next year'?
Last edited by Bartek; 23rd Dec 2012 at 07:57.
GLA should and could happen. VAA are using a long haul slot this summer for one of the short haul routes.
It's totally wrong that any carrier should have monopoly on any route.
It's totally wrong that any carrier should have monopoly on any route.
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Glasgow -London is very well served by two carriers serving five airports, EDI more so. BMI lost money at GLA in the end but it's a big market. Is it worth a pile of lucrative LHR slots to VS though?
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Airline Routes now reporting the VS domestics will be run using A320 equipment, not A319s.
The equipment type for the flights is showing "A320-100/200" on Virgin's website anyway.
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Quote: "GLA should and could happen. VAA are using a long haul slot this summer for one of the short haul routes.
It's totally wrong that any carrier should have monopoly on any route."
Suspect whether VS starts GLA or not will depend on how well they do on ABZ, EDI and MAN. It's not neccessarily just a question of slot availability.
Agree about the monopoly situation in principle, but it's better to have one carrier than no carrier, e.g LHR-NCL.
Quote: "Glasgow -London is very well served by two carriers serving five airports, EDI more so. BMI lost money at GLA in the end but it's a big market. Is it worth a pile of lucrative LHR slots to VS though?"
Doesn't that depends whether we mean city pairs or airport pairs?
Flights to/from LHR (and LGW to a very limited extent) have potential for longhaul transfers with luggage checked through. Flights to/from the other 4 London airports do not.
It's totally wrong that any carrier should have monopoly on any route."
Suspect whether VS starts GLA or not will depend on how well they do on ABZ, EDI and MAN. It's not neccessarily just a question of slot availability.
Agree about the monopoly situation in principle, but it's better to have one carrier than no carrier, e.g LHR-NCL.
Quote: "Glasgow -London is very well served by two carriers serving five airports, EDI more so. BMI lost money at GLA in the end but it's a big market. Is it worth a pile of lucrative LHR slots to VS though?"
Doesn't that depends whether we mean city pairs or airport pairs?
Flights to/from LHR (and LGW to a very limited extent) have potential for longhaul transfers with luggage checked through. Flights to/from the other 4 London airports do not.
As I said, GLA will not happen, if any of the spotters on this thread fancy a wager...? No, didn't think so.
Last edited by xray one; 25th Dec 2012 at 18:11.
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Look mate, I might be a spotter but I worked in marketing analytics for long enough to know enough about the market and how it works. Just you keep banging your head.....
Your "analysis" is amateurish as it fails to take into account of the bleeding away of a lot of BMI passengers who will now be using BA. Given the UK is a (the) Virgin core market, they need to steal those passangers back, which is why any domestic network of any seriousness will contain the major markets, of which Glasgow is one. Don't give up the day job eh?
Your "analysis" is amateurish as it fails to take into account of the bleeding away of a lot of BMI passengers who will now be using BA. Given the UK is a (the) Virgin core market, they need to steal those passangers back, which is why any domestic network of any seriousness will contain the major markets, of which Glasgow is one. Don't give up the day job eh?
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 27th Dec 2012 at 04:44.
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Glasgow will happen if they are serious about doing this, it's a better bet than ABZ which BMI used to fly with ERJ145s. If they're serious.....
Regardless, I think they can make it work to all three Scottish airports IF they have the stomach for it.
Which I don't think they have and they'll all be dropped in 1/2 years citing big bad BA, the world's not fair blah blah blah
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GLA was a great route until British Midland became BMI and nothing much went right from there on in. BD's major issue was not getting enough revenue from partners for carrying all their passengers to LHR. That tells you a lot about bmi.
Remember VS are using "prime" LHR slots on long haul and watching both absolute traffic and market share drop! Now that slow collapse has been arrested recently but consider progress has stalled. ORD still can't be run year round, YVR hardly made much impact and BOS is now on an A343 half the time when it used to be a B747! They are being squeezed badly by AA/BA. Look at MIA, after all these years, still only once daily. They need to fill those flights somehow, tapping core domestic markets is a start.
Remember VS are using "prime" LHR slots on long haul and watching both absolute traffic and market share drop! Now that slow collapse has been arrested recently but consider progress has stalled. ORD still can't be run year round, YVR hardly made much impact and BOS is now on an A343 half the time when it used to be a B747! They are being squeezed badly by AA/BA. Look at MIA, after all these years, still only once daily. They need to fill those flights somehow, tapping core domestic markets is a start.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 27th Dec 2012 at 08:47.
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Virgin Atlantic has always focused on the Atlantic (hence the name). Like it or not, the world has changed and there are now different countries competing for the UK's business and leisure traffic.
This has been reflected somewhat in the changes over recent years, with VS adding Asian and African destinations. There will be more changes, and if VS is to succeed, it will embrace them. Should growth in the American market turn to decline, then it planes will, of necessity, fly elsewhere.
This has been reflected somewhat in the changes over recent years, with VS adding Asian and African destinations. There will be more changes, and if VS is to succeed, it will embrace them. Should growth in the American market turn to decline, then it planes will, of necessity, fly elsewhere.
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You keep banging on about this, but you fail to explain WHY (1) IAG would sell BA (to anyone) leaving themselves with loss-making IB, and (2) how you think VS could possibly afford it, bearing in mind they could not afford to buy BD. These need answering to retain any credibility on your "VS buy BA" point.
IB however faces an even bigger problem, surviving in a country that is deep in an economic crisis that is the worst in 70 years; they have cut 20% of the work force and moving routes to Vueling, the region is also facing the prospect that nationalists, the Far-Left and the Far-Right are gaining ground
The question is that do they have the talent and resources to turn round IB without overlooking BA’s challenges and trying to solve them
Now I am sure they do, but if VS (somehow) offers a fairly good deal, IAG might as well take the money and use it to fix IB (along with the fact they can focus on that airline alone)
2: For a start SRB could put his own money into this, also (unlike the failed BD takeover), DL and their ST partners could put their money into this (similar to what happened to the AC/CP merger) as well, and however the chances of this happening are unlikely
And that’s the point, it’s unlikely VS will be sustainable for the long term, its being squeezed by BA, LH/LX/OS/SN, AF-KL, TK, EK and QR (not to mention the various LCCs) and to make matters worse they have little in the terms of a business plan in the time they have been operating, which is based on SRB’s passion, ego and stubbornness
He needs to see that time is running out for his airline, so he needs to end this rubbish about a BA “monopoly” (which it never had and never will) and do a deal with them to secure his airlines short-term future, allow BA/VS to focus on the real “enemy” and to work on the best interests of the UK and their shareholders
DL management have clearly not read “Branson” (the book by Tom Bower), they have also ignored the advice of SIA as well, and I fear that they will be burnt by this deal, which could tip them over the edge once the inevitable selling of VS to BA happens
They should scrap this deal and instead look into merging with AA
If not, then AA should abandon a potentially disastrous merger with US and wait to buy DL out of BK…
Owning 49% of VS does not give any rights or opportunities to transfer VS slots to DL. It's a similar position to SQ, take 49% of the profits, if/when there are any.
Maybe the CEO’s of DL and AF-KL should read “Branson” (the book by Tom Bower), before continuing to pursue this deal…
Do DL’s shareholders have to agree this deal, if so then they should vote NO!
No it doesn't, it needs the underground shuttle link to be extended from LHR-5 and its satelites to LHR-3 and the new LHR-1/2 and all its satelites. Obviously this would be a long term arrangement once the expansion issue is sorted out. A common travel area arrivals section at LHR-3 would be unnecessary duplication.
What they want in the long-term is everything to be at T5 (they should look into demolishing T3 and expanding T5 over that site
Cheaper to buy slots rather than half an airline if increasing New York capacity is the aim. It's already a saturated route, is it 27 flights/day? Is there room for more capacity?
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Presumably this new domestic route is to compete with the fast and direct train service between the 2 cities(from london Euston)......good thinking but hang on, isnt the train service operated by err, virgin??!!
Did they instigate this route when they thought they had lost their west coast rail franchise to the first group? In the shambles that followed they have held onto the franchise for 2 more years at least.
So is it just me who is wondering why virgin want to compete with themselves??
Did they instigate this route when they thought they had lost their west coast rail franchise to the first group? In the shambles that followed they have held onto the franchise for 2 more years at least.
So is it just me who is wondering why virgin want to compete with themselves??
I highly doubt this has anything to do with the entire refranchising process, even if Virgin retained the ICWC franchise, the VS flights have still would have happened anyway, because they serve different markets
This has everything to do with the fact BA has bought BMI (who despite strained relations, did provide a lot of transfer traffic for VS), so not rely on their “enemy” for passengers from the regions, they have launched their own flights (trouble is that they face a hard fight with BA over this market and I doubt DL will support them over this, since it has no benefit for them)
I love them too.....
BALHR is doing finals this year some MBA in chemistry
I think BA could fall to FR , but VS will needs to survive noce to have a decent honest price fixer running an airline as opposed to MOL
BALHR is doing finals this year some MBA in chemistry
I think BA could fall to FR , but VS will needs to survive noce to have a decent honest price fixer running an airline as opposed to MOL
http://theairlineblog.********.co.uk...lufthansa.html
If SRB and Virgin are really serious at attempting a feeder for their longhaul, then their best solution would have been to negotiate with MOL to take over the EI routes into LHR (which could also be used to feed DL routes).
Apparently though, they have lost that battle (if not yet the war) as MOL has signed a MOU with BA/IAG.
Having said that, I think there is an awful lot of water to pass under the bridge before any deal for RYR to take over EI is done and dusted, let alone the RYR MOU with BA/IAG to be passed.
We are nowhere near the end game on this ....
Having said that, I think there is an awful lot of water to pass under the bridge before any deal for RYR to take over EI is done and dusted, let alone the RYR MOU with BA/IAG to be passed.
We are nowhere near the end game on this ....
Whatever the case, I doubt if DL will allow VS to operate LHR-DUB/BHD or even LHR-MAN/EDI/ABZ that VS will soon operate, since those destinations are already linked (for DL) at AMS with the help of their partner KLM
Less water than you think, in fact the stream has run dry. The Irish govt announced today they won't sell their stake to FR. This leaves him unable to get enough shareholder approval, even if the EU passed the deal. It's game over.
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After many years on PPRuNe, this unrelenting torrent of parallel-universe non-sequiturs has finally driven me to use the ignore list function for the first time.