Virgin Atlantic
Well LGW/MAN based 4 Virgin Sun A320s didn't last very long. The Brussels based Virgin Express was short lived too.
VS operate T2 at MAN, but as far as I am aware has no domestic facility, so there will probably be split Terminal ops at MAN (maybe LHR too).
MAN pax can go anywhere westbound via existing carriers & eastbound is well served with EY, QR, & EK. Don't see the attraction of going via LHR. BAs own shuttle has fallen away over the years as alternatives have come on tap.B757 & 767s reduced to A319s etc.
Can't see any way this will pay it's way.
More of an expensive political stunt / point & a spat from losing Manchester to London rail franchise.
If he wanted to make an impact oop north ( & offer crew shuttles) then routing a Heathrow to YVR or a LAX via MAN might remotely possibly make more sense. :-)
VS operate T2 at MAN, but as far as I am aware has no domestic facility, so there will probably be split Terminal ops at MAN (maybe LHR too).
MAN pax can go anywhere westbound via existing carriers & eastbound is well served with EY, QR, & EK. Don't see the attraction of going via LHR. BAs own shuttle has fallen away over the years as alternatives have come on tap.B757 & 767s reduced to A319s etc.
Can't see any way this will pay it's way.
More of an expensive political stunt / point & a spat from losing Manchester to London rail franchise.
If he wanted to make an impact oop north ( & offer crew shuttles) then routing a Heathrow to YVR or a LAX via MAN might remotely possibly make more sense. :-)
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Well said bb, i think that is what's happening here together with bad blood with BA on previous code-sharing on this route when it was bmi.
Does anyone know how many passengers a year actually connected on to Virgin services at LHR from MAN when under the bmi code-share? If it is sizeable then it makes sense.
Does anyone know how many passengers a year actually connected on to Virgin services at LHR from MAN when under the bmi code-share? If it is sizeable then it makes sense.
Last edited by Nakata77; 21st Aug 2012 at 09:00.
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Big Bear - exactly my take on things. Didn't know about the leased slot issue, but I assumed it was a move to try to convince the regulators that they are "serious" about short haul.
Get the 12 ex BMI slots, run them short haul for the minimum mandatory period, which will just give them some thinking time to order some new airframes, hire some staff, economy to recover and decide on which longhual routes to launch.
Get the 12 ex BMI slots, run them short haul for the minimum mandatory period, which will just give them some thinking time to order some new airframes, hire some staff, economy to recover and decide on which longhual routes to launch.
Last edited by Artie Fufkin; 21st Aug 2012 at 09:15.
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They will lose a fortune on MANLHR as the frequency is too low for business customers and most get the train anyway, plus connecting yields will be low. Its likely a PR stunt, within a year or two they'll used the slots at LHR for something else.
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I'm looking at our top 20 national corporate customers, of whom about half have their head office around the South East. There is ONE whose HQ is inside the Circle Line, and is more convenient to Euston than Heathrow.
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I'm pretty sure the slots up for grabs must be used for the route that's being vacated. Maybe there's a time limit on it, operate LHR-MAN for a few years then start converting them to long-haul!?
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Who says they're actually going to operate this? The closing date for the applications to the trustee for the IAG slots (for ABZ and EDI) is... oh, there's a coincidence, the day after tomorrow (see here). As bad bear says, the Commitments (not the band, but the conditions linked to from the above page) stipulate that they can't be leasing out their own slots while applying for the IAG slots.
Plus, wouldn't it be helpful to VS's case to be able to say "we're really committed to making this UK domestic network work, Mr Trustee - look, we've even launched another route in anticipation. Please, give the slots to us, not those nasty Aer Lingus people, just because they have extensive short-haul experience, the right aircraft, and a presence in the relevant markets!"?
I think at this stage this is just window-dressing. If they get the ABZ and EDI slots, yes, they may operate MAN too. But if they don't get ABZ and EDI? I just don't see MAN taking off in isolation.
Plus, wouldn't it be helpful to VS's case to be able to say "we're really committed to making this UK domestic network work, Mr Trustee - look, we've even launched another route in anticipation. Please, give the slots to us, not those nasty Aer Lingus people, just because they have extensive short-haul experience, the right aircraft, and a presence in the relevant markets!"?
I think at this stage this is just window-dressing. If they get the ABZ and EDI slots, yes, they may operate MAN too. But if they don't get ABZ and EDI? I just don't see MAN taking off in isolation.
Apart from VS, who else has either said they will bid for the 3 year competition remediation slots to Aberdeen / Edinburgh / Nice / Moscow / Cairo / Riyadh, or is likely to be bidding for slots ?
Are VS bidding just for UK domestic, or are they also thought to be looking at the other destinations as well (e.g. Moscow) ?
Are VS bidding just for UK domestic, or are they also thought to be looking at the other destinations as well (e.g. Moscow) ?
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 21st Aug 2012 at 17:32.
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VS domestic
Quote: "Agree with most but not the "most get the train" bit. The train takes you to an inner North London location which, while it might be convenient for those offices in Central London that most businesses had a generation or two ago, is useless for the Thames Valley, Surrey, Berkshire, and much of West London that is Heathrow's business catchment area.
I'm looking at our top 20 national corporate customers, of whom about half have their head office around the South East. There is ONE whose HQ is inside the Circle Line, and is more convenient to Euston than Heathrow."
This is exactly the point: not all pax are headed for the middle of London, it's a huge conurbation. Those that are take the train (if they can afford it), else flights to LCY. Either way, there should be choice.
Much of the business catchment area is west of London because of the location of LHR, so there will be point-to-point traffic at LHR as well as transfer traffic. This is also another reason why the Thames estuary airport idea is a non-starter.
Quote: "Does anyone know how many passengers a year actually connected on to Virgin services at LHR from MAN when under the bmi code-share? If it is sizeable then it makes sense."
VS domestic probably has as much to do with replicating the feed that BD provided as it does with the acquisition of BA slots.
Quote: "Aer Lingus have said they would be intrested flying LHR-EDI and ABZ. IMO I hope they don't get them as I see no benefit to the airline of flying UK domestic."
Yes, they are probably the only other contenders for the BA slots, maybe apart from BD regional perhaps. The likes of BE, U2, etc., appear uninterested in this.
I'm looking at our top 20 national corporate customers, of whom about half have their head office around the South East. There is ONE whose HQ is inside the Circle Line, and is more convenient to Euston than Heathrow."
This is exactly the point: not all pax are headed for the middle of London, it's a huge conurbation. Those that are take the train (if they can afford it), else flights to LCY. Either way, there should be choice.
Much of the business catchment area is west of London because of the location of LHR, so there will be point-to-point traffic at LHR as well as transfer traffic. This is also another reason why the Thames estuary airport idea is a non-starter.
Quote: "Does anyone know how many passengers a year actually connected on to Virgin services at LHR from MAN when under the bmi code-share? If it is sizeable then it makes sense."
VS domestic probably has as much to do with replicating the feed that BD provided as it does with the acquisition of BA slots.
Quote: "Aer Lingus have said they would be intrested flying LHR-EDI and ABZ. IMO I hope they don't get them as I see no benefit to the airline of flying UK domestic."
Yes, they are probably the only other contenders for the BA slots, maybe apart from BD regional perhaps. The likes of BE, U2, etc., appear uninterested in this.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 18th Sep 2012 at 19:36.
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Virgin Atlantic's Boss Retiring
Surprised this hasn't made it on here yet as was press released on the 9th I think:
Steve Ridgway Resigns as Virgin Atlantic CEO - WSJ.com
Nominations for a replacment?
Steve Ridgway Resigns as Virgin Atlantic CEO - WSJ.com
Nominations for a replacment?
I would nominate anyone from a "fun/entertainment" background.
Virgin are suffering under the rule of beancounters........perhaps to fund Necker?
Get in someone from Disney to restore the fun and originality that Virgin used to have.
Virgin are suffering under the rule of beancounters........perhaps to fund Necker?
Get in someone from Disney to restore the fun and originality that Virgin used to have.
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Beancounters are a necessary evil as the days of endless bail outs and subsidies are long over. At the end of the day, some money has to be made to survive long-term. I don't know why so many people can't understand this.
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Virgin plans using 787 in switch to Haneda in Tokyo in 2014
Looks like the VS Airbus pilots will need to get their fill of sushi during the next two years before the Dreamliner arrives (so long as the 787-900 does not suffer too many delays). 
Article below:
Virgin Atlantic plans to switch its Toyko flights from Narita to Haneda airport when it introduces a Boeing 787 Dreamliner on the route from London.
The move follows plans by the former mainly Japanese domestic airport to develop its international terminal and make more daylight take off and landing slots available to long-haul carriers from spring 2014.
Japan-UK air service talks earlier this year agreed that night-time operating restrictions at Haneda are also to be relaxed and that limited international movements can take place during daylight hours providing airlines retain a commercial presence at Narita.
British Airways, which runs a codeshare with Japan Airlines, currently operates five flights a week to Haneda from Heathrow.
Virgin, which struck a codeshare with All Nippon Airways in 2009, says the airport, close to the centre of Toyko, will offer improved passenger connections due to the 200 domestic frequencies available.
The airline’s chief executive Steve Ridgway said: “2014 is a key year in Virgin Atlantic's history. It marks our 25th anniversary of successfully operating flights to Japan and will see us deploying one of our first brand new Boeing 787 aircraft on the route.
“We have definitely seen the market recover post last year’s tragic earthquake with an additional 23% capacity and passenger numbers up by 77%. We look forward to enhancing that further as we move into Haneda airport.”
He added: “August was a record month for Virgin Atlantic’s Japanese operations and this far eastern route is very valuable to us.
“We operate daily flights with local crew and Japanese food and in-flight entertainment options.
“Our codeshare agreement with ANA will ensure that international passengers still have the choice to fly to Narita airport but, between the two carriers, we will be able to offer more choice with a Haneda based operation.”
Virgin makes Tokyo airport switch - www.travelweekly.co.uk
Article below:
Virgin Atlantic plans to switch its Toyko flights from Narita to Haneda airport when it introduces a Boeing 787 Dreamliner on the route from London.
The move follows plans by the former mainly Japanese domestic airport to develop its international terminal and make more daylight take off and landing slots available to long-haul carriers from spring 2014.
Japan-UK air service talks earlier this year agreed that night-time operating restrictions at Haneda are also to be relaxed and that limited international movements can take place during daylight hours providing airlines retain a commercial presence at Narita.
British Airways, which runs a codeshare with Japan Airlines, currently operates five flights a week to Haneda from Heathrow.
Virgin, which struck a codeshare with All Nippon Airways in 2009, says the airport, close to the centre of Toyko, will offer improved passenger connections due to the 200 domestic frequencies available.
The airline’s chief executive Steve Ridgway said: “2014 is a key year in Virgin Atlantic's history. It marks our 25th anniversary of successfully operating flights to Japan and will see us deploying one of our first brand new Boeing 787 aircraft on the route.
“We have definitely seen the market recover post last year’s tragic earthquake with an additional 23% capacity and passenger numbers up by 77%. We look forward to enhancing that further as we move into Haneda airport.”
He added: “August was a record month for Virgin Atlantic’s Japanese operations and this far eastern route is very valuable to us.
“We operate daily flights with local crew and Japanese food and in-flight entertainment options.
“Our codeshare agreement with ANA will ensure that international passengers still have the choice to fly to Narita airport but, between the two carriers, we will be able to offer more choice with a Haneda based operation.”
Virgin makes Tokyo airport switch - www.travelweekly.co.uk