Virgin Atlantic
Midland02 sums things up quite well.
The problem Virgin and the fare paying public have, is that if BA get too strong, they could eventually have a long term goal of pushing Virgin out of LHR, regardless of how good their product is, by purposely offering fares on the Virgin route structure at a loss. Eventually having a total monopoly on short and long haul out of LHR and, therefore, charging what they like.
As it is with BMI probably going BAs way (regardless of what Ridgeway says), the business traveller will have no choice when landing into LHR other than fly with BA to regional airports. The only other option would be get the train to Gatwick etc and fly with the low cost carriers which ain't going to happen.
The problem Virgin and the fare paying public have, is that if BA get too strong, they could eventually have a long term goal of pushing Virgin out of LHR, regardless of how good their product is, by purposely offering fares on the Virgin route structure at a loss. Eventually having a total monopoly on short and long haul out of LHR and, therefore, charging what they like.
As it is with BMI probably going BAs way (regardless of what Ridgeway says), the business traveller will have no choice when landing into LHR other than fly with BA to regional airports. The only other option would be get the train to Gatwick etc and fly with the low cost carriers which ain't going to happen.
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Outside domestics, the major markets all have competition. It's a very British thing to have this "second force" mantra, passed from BUA, to BCAL, Laker and now Virgin. The real competitors are much larger carriers like Lufthansa, Air France and KLM in Europe STAR and Skyteam respectively, and up against Emirates, Etihad et al to the Middle East with the traditional long haul carriers still on the same routes. Cathay, Singapore etc. As for competition to the US, LHR has gone from American and United vs BA and Virgin under Bermuda 2, to Continental moving in and merging to make a stronger United, Delta moving in and adding capacity and quality onto LHR-JFK and maintaining what Northwest had started to US Airways moving in on LHR-PHL. In short, since 2008 LHR has seen the addition of :
CO LHR-EWR, IAH, CLE (since suspended)
NW LHR-MSP, DTW, SEA (since suspended) with DL maintaining MSP and DTW
US LHR-PHL
DL LHR-ATL, JFK, huge ramp up on LHR-JFK on the B764.
In BA's favour, they mow have ATI with American but you can't say LHR-US is a BA monopoly, far from it. It is the US competition added to BA raising it's game added to Virgin not being in an alliance that is making Virgin underperform in comparison. The market is incredibly competitive, it is VS who are not....
CO LHR-EWR, IAH, CLE (since suspended)
NW LHR-MSP, DTW, SEA (since suspended) with DL maintaining MSP and DTW
US LHR-PHL
DL LHR-ATL, JFK, huge ramp up on LHR-JFK on the B764.
In BA's favour, they mow have ATI with American but you can't say LHR-US is a BA monopoly, far from it. It is the US competition added to BA raising it's game added to Virgin not being in an alliance that is making Virgin underperform in comparison. The market is incredibly competitive, it is VS who are not....
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The problem Virgin and the fare paying public have, is that if BA get too strong, they could eventually have a long term goal of pushing Virgin out of LHR, regardless of how good their product is, by purposely offering fares on the Virgin route structure at a loss. Eventually having a total monopoly on short and long haul out of LHR and, therefore, charging what they like.
Poppycock !! LHR is one of the most competetive markets in the world. LHR is not just BA and VS; have you looked at a departures board recently?
Poppycock !! LHR is one of the most competetive markets in the world. LHR is not just BA and VS; have you looked at a departures board recently?
Either way, competition and good competition at that is essential.
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One would have thought that, given all the hype over all these 'emerging markets' - VS would be giving BA a good run for their money in them.
So could anyone explain why, iirc, VS were in on PVG first, but retreated from PEK, surely soon to become the world's busiest airport?
I think BOM was relaxed because of competition, but since then Jet Airways & Kingfisher have looked wobbly to say the least, leaving VS serving DEL only, and CCU unserved by direct flights (ex UK).
And I'm sure I've heard it said that SRB eyes up Rio as one of his target markets.
Any reason why these aren't going full throttle?
So could anyone explain why, iirc, VS were in on PVG first, but retreated from PEK, surely soon to become the world's busiest airport?
I think BOM was relaxed because of competition, but since then Jet Airways & Kingfisher have looked wobbly to say the least, leaving VS serving DEL only, and CCU unserved by direct flights (ex UK).
And I'm sure I've heard it said that SRB eyes up Rio as one of his target markets.
Any reason why these aren't going full throttle?
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Any reason why these aren't going full throttle?
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TAM has reduced Rio-London to thrice weekly for the winter so it's not a gold mine just yet, even LHR-China direct is not that big, or I understand that profitable yet.
It was the lack of VS on PVG that prompted the post (iirc, the route was launced around 06, not sure when it stopped?).
I think there is an easy expectancy that these routes can only show growth, but obviously not always the case.
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It was the lack of VS on PVG that prompted the post (iirc, the route was launced around 06, not sure when it stopped?).
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Virgin to re-launch Mumbai from the beginning of the winter schedules. Daily flights on the new A330 aircraft.
Latest news | Virgin Atlantic
Latest news | Virgin Atlantic
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The bearded one sumps up the anti-runway 3 politicians well in this interview. Good to see those who actually realise the economic benefits of aviation ramping up the pressure on our silly disorganised government and the putney woman!
BBC News - Branson calls for Heathrow Airport third runway review
BBC News - Branson calls for Heathrow Airport third runway review
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The problem Virgin and the fare paying public have, is that if BA get too strong, they could eventually have a long term goal of pushing Virgin out of LHR, regardless of how good their product is, by purposely offering fares on the Virgin route structure at a loss. Eventually having a total monopoly on short and long haul out of LHR and, therefore, charging what they like.
Not only is LHR bigger than BA, but anti-competition stunts like that would not go unchallenged and legal proceedings would ensue.
The problem with underpricing is, often, there is evidence of it. All you have to do is look at tickets prices in the past to raise suspicions.
My own opinion on beardy going nuts about this IAG/BD deal is that he wanted the LHR slots and now that it looks like he won't get them, he's throwing the toys out of the pram.
If he was genuinely worried about British aviation, jobs, the travelling public, etc then he should have tendered a serious bid. Instead he only put down half the amount of the IAG bid on the table. VS are a niche carrier long haul carrier with no domestic network or experience with an interest to expand LHR operations. There is little chance beardy wanted BD to run it.
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Slots?
Just out of interest, does anyone know how many slots Virgin have leased out to other carriers? They used to operate more flights from Heathrow than current schedule, so those slots must have gone somewhere.
Presumably someone figured they can make more money leasing the slots than operating a service?
Presumably someone figured they can make more money leasing the slots than operating a service?
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I remember reading a few months ago that Virgin were looking to expand routes to include Toronto, Seattle and Salt Lake City. But haven't been able to find again the website where I read this.
Does anybody in the know have any idea if these routes are likely to be started any time in the near future?
Does anybody in the know have any idea if these routes are likely to be started any time in the near future?