DUBLIN - 2

[Seljuk22]

EK started DUB on 09th January with a daily A332 (237 seats) and changed on 1st May to a daily B77W (360 seats).
I count 113 days with A332 (113 x 237 x 2) and 162 days (until 9th October to make it 9 months) with B77W (162 x 360 x 2). That makes a total of 170,202 seats offered in 9 months. Loads must be over 95% then!?
And the busy season to DXB and further to Australia still to come the next months.

[Mlinnie]

Etihad

With the success of emirates at Dublin how is Etihad doing since Emirates came along ?

[EI-A330-300]

EK started DUB on 09th January with a daily A332 (237 seats) and changed on 1st May to a daily B77W (360 seats).
I count 113 days with A332 (113 x 237 x 2) and 162 days (until 9th October to make it 9 months) with B77W (162 x 360 x 2). That makes a total of 170,202 seats offered in 9 months. Loads must be over 95% then!?
And the busy season to DXB and further to Australia still to come the next months.

95% is about right every flight is almost both passenger and cargo daily. Think an evening flight is on the cards when aircraft are available. First does struggle to fill but expect thats on most routes. Don't have a breakdown of each class.

With the success of emirates at Dublin how is Etihad doing since Emirates came along ?

Etihad have increased there own passengers numbers every month so far this year so they are not being affect in terms of passengers but yields have to be down as EY are ripping people off before EK came along but the route is still very profitable.

[Mlinnie]

So is there a chance we could see Etihad also going double daily ?

[dubh12000]

I have flown home twice now from AUH with Etihad, and all 4 flights have been rammed. Unusually, little chance of points upgrades either, as business class was booked out on all 4 sectors too. I would make a guess at about 30 to 40 pax total picking up bags at AUH. Everyone else is transiting.

[dubh12000]

PS. EY lounge in DUB is not bad at all, even if it is pork bacon free....

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Used to love seeing the AF Cargo 747 at DUB, but is it only 77F nowadays? Haven't seen the 747 there in a few months at least..

747 was here on Saturday but the 777 is more common these days.

[Jamie2k9]

Aer Lingus Summer 2013/Charters

Aer Lingus have released most routes for 2013. Will not post exact details until later as many changes can be expected over the next few weeks.

Increase in weekly flights (most have 1/2 rotations added with more on T/A services)
Berlin, Bilbao, Boston, Brussels, Chicago, Copenhagen (New), Dubrovnik, Lanzarote, Lisbon, Munich, Nice, Paris, Perpignan, Rome

Reduced
Alicante, Budapest, Lyon

Travel Service will be operating charters for next May. Currently scheduled Fri-Sun. Would appear to replace the second based Thomson unit however not confirmed. Air Contractors will also increase there charter flights. Also 2 new weekly charters to Tenerife with Iberworld who will also be increasing there flights from DUB.

[Sober Lark]

Ryanair reduce Nice, Aer Lingus increase Nice.

MRS after you. No dear I insist after you. After all we're friends 30% of the time.

Such farcical competition.

[dublinaviator]

Originally Posted by Sober Lark

Ryanair reduce Nice, Aer Lingus increase Nice.

MRS after you. No dear I insist after you. After all we're friends 30% of the time.

Such farcical competition.

Spot on, I get sick of hearing people harp on about how if Ryanair took over Aer Lingus, there'd be no competition. Case in point - we don't have competition now anyway. It's the same story on the London routes. Aer Lingus and Ryanair are way too cosy on those routes, and there's very little difference, if any, in fares. As far as I'm concerned, if Ryanair took over Aer Lingus tomorrow, it wouldn't make a difference to competition, because again there is none as it is.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Ryanair havn't reduced Nice. Its operating longer this summer than last. EI were always strong on Nice compared to FR.

if Ryanair took over Aer Lingus tomorrow, it wouldn't make a difference to competition, because again there is none as it is.

It would a massive one. You will be paying much more to get to the costa than now. Everytime I have checked EI prices in summer with baggage and all EI have being cheeper and FR "claim" to be a loco.

FR are ripping passengers from Ireland off and people don't realise. All you need to do is compare prices from the UK. We pay almost double to get to AGP than passengers in the UK becasue they have MON,LS,EZY to keep FR at bay and the UK of APD of £24.

For a date in July next year EI are €55 cheeper than FR for a 1 adult DUB-AGP + bag. Its also false advertising on FR's behalf.

[Seljuk22]

Beside EK and EY don't forget TK with its various connecting destinations out of IST.

from 31st March DUB-IST will be increased from daily to 10 weekly
Turkish Airlines - Dublin flights will increase - turkishairlines.com

[ayroplain]

It's the same story on the London routes. Aer Lingus and Ryanair are way too cosy on those routes, and there's very little difference, if any, in fares

If you are just talking about the fare with no baggage or other addons then I would have to disagree entirely if you're a reasonably regular traveller. Depending, of course, on how long you book in advance EI's fares London-Dublin are way in excess of FR. An added and important factor is the admin fee. Using the FR Cash Passport you don't have to pay the extra £12. Before that you could use one of the easily bought Mastercard Cash cards. EI only offers the unobtainable Visa Electron as an alternative so you can add £12 onto the fare for every return flight. How they have managed to get away with that for so long I don't know.

[dublinaviator]

Originally Posted by ayroplain

If you are just talking about the fare with no baggage or other addons then I would have to disagree entirely if you're a reasonably regular traveller. Depending, of course, on how long you book in advance EI's fares London-Dublin are way in excess of FR. An added and important factor is the admin fee. Using the FR Cash Passport you don't have to pay the extra £12. Before that you could use one of the easily bought Mastercard Cash cards. EI only offers the unobtainable Visa Electron as an alternative so you can add £12 onto the fare for every return flight. How they have managed to get away with that for so long I don't know.

It goes both ways, but I'm obviously referring to fares which now have to include those 'hidden charges' anyway, so your point is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by EI-EIDW

It would a massive one. You will be paying much more to get to the costa than now. Everytime I have checked EI prices in summer with baggage and all EI have being cheeper and FR "claim" to be a loco.

FR are ripping passengers from Ireland off and people don't realise. All you need to do is compare prices from the UK. We pay almost double to get to AGP than passengers in the UK becasue they have MON,LS,EZY to keep FR at bay and the UK of APD of £24.

For a date in July next year EI are €55 cheeper than FR for a 1 adult DUB-AGP + bag. Its also false advertising on FR's behalf.

I could pick out an example of Ryanair being €200 cheaper - what does that tell you? Nothing.

My own firm view (having previously been against it) is that Ryanair should be allowed takeover Aer Lingus as it would provide them with the capital they need to expand, which they can't obtain now. Ryanair has also raised the prospect of using it's own network as a feeder for Aer Lingus long-haul through Dublin, which it would only have access to in a Ryanair takeover. A Ryanair-Aer Lingus Group would also have a much more strengtened bargaining power to negotiate down the cost of airport charges and other costs than Aer Lingus has now on it's own.

I am sceptical of what it would do to competition, but then it's not like we have real competition now anyway. And then there's the question over whether it'd lead to Aer Lingus staff striking over new pay & conditions, what would happen to the Aer Lingus Regional franchise etc. But looking at the bigger picture, Aer Lingus need an investor, and tbh I'd rather they be part of a large Irish airline group than taken over by Etihad who will end up calling the shots from the sidelines like they are now with Air Berlin.

[waffler]

Dublinaviator,
Interesting view of what Aer Lingus may gain from a Ryanair takeover but a bit naive.
As I see it as an Aer Lingus employee, no matter what Mr O leary says ( remember him saying that he would not touch Aer Lingus with a bargepole )
He will do these things.
1. Take all the cash from Aer Lingus accounts and transfer them to Ryanair.
2. Sell Heathrow slots to the highest bidder with the exception of those he has
promised to BA , Virgin or whoever is pretending to provide compitition in
the event of his takeover.
3. Sell the short range Airbus aircraft that Aer Lingus own ( 60% of the fleet )
4. Terminate the contract with Aer Arann.
5. Force the existing staff out of the company by changing working conditions and forced redeployment overseas ( with the loss of millions to the exchequer)
6. Dictate avation policy to the airports , government and citizens.

I could go on but you get the point.
With so much to gain why would he not go for it.
He will promise anything for this prize, the chance to destroy his Irish competition at no cost to him.

You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine however I have more to lose if I am right.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by dublinaviator

My own firm view (having previously been against it) is that Ryanair should be allowed takeover Aer Lingus as it would provide them with the capital they need to expand, which they can't obtain now.

Just out of curiosity, what in your view are the sensible expansion path(s) which Aer Lingus are currently blocked from by a supposed lack of funds?

C.

[Jamie2k9]

FR have no interest in EI short haul services, all they want is EI long haul network which will keep Ryanair profitable long term as they can't cut there costs a huge amount more, in fact they will increase and the short haul market is becoming more of a problem for FR and current profits will turn to losses unless they change there approch to Europe. Just on the UK-IRL fare differences they are substantial and only because they can get away with it.

[dublinaviator]

Originally Posted by waffler

Dublinaviator,
Interesting view of what Aer Lingus may gain from a Ryanair takeover but a bit naive.
As I see it as an Aer Lingus employee, no matter what Mr O leary says ( remember him saying that he would not touch Aer Lingus with a bargepole )
He will do these things.
1. Take all the cash from Aer Lingus accounts and transfer them to Ryanair.

That's just pure scaremongering. Any new group that would be formed from a Ryanair takeover would share profits. I don't see what the problem is with that prospect?

Originally Posted by waffler

2. Sell Heathrow slots to the highest bidder with the exception of those he has
promised to BA , Virgin or whoever is pretending to provide compitition in
the event of his takeover.

More than likely, were Ryanair allowed to takeover Aer Lingus, the European Commission would require them to release some LHR slots to other carriers. So that has to be expected. From a consumer point of view, I think it'd be good to have more competition on the DUB-LHR route.

Originally Posted by waffler

3. Sell the short range Airbus aircraft that Aer Lingus own ( 60% of the fleet )

Aer Lingus are already doing this themselves. Since Christoph Mueller has taken over as CEO, the size of their long-haul and short-haul fleet has reduced and the size of their A321 fleet in particular has been cut in half. Ryanair on the other hand have stated they would grow the Aer Lingus short-haul and long-haul fleet. And they can do this because they have the capital to invest in new aircraft, and could also transfer Ryanair operated aircraft over to the Aer Lingus operation.

Originally Posted by waffler

4. Terminate the contract with Aer Arann.

Aer Lingus already has the ability to terminate it's franchise with Aer Arann at any time. What if, when traffic picks up, they decide that franchise doesn't suit their business model anymore?

Originally Posted by waffler

5. Force the existing staff out of the company by changing working conditions and forced redeployment overseas ( with the loss of millions to the exchequer)

Ryanair is one of the largest employers in this country and is constantly hiring people in their head office in Dublin. So the idea that they'd outsource all the Aer Lingus staff functions overseas is a bit daft.

What would more likely happen is Ryanair head office staff would actually move into Aer Lingus' offices in Hangar 6 in order to obtain synergies and efficiencies in management functions.

Originally Posted by waffler

6. Dictate avation policy to the airports , government and citizens.

Wouldn't be hard to do considering the current government has no aviation policy. And on more than one occasion, Aer Lingus, Ryanair, Aer Arann, and even CityJet have come together to square up against the government and DAA. And it was Aer Lingus who threatened not to move into T2 unless they got the same terminal charges as airlines using T1. So lets not pretend Ryanair is the only airline that puts it up to the government/DAA.

[tom1975]

Dublinaviator -

That's just pure scaremongering. Any new group that would be formed from a Ryanair takeover would share profits. I don't see what the problem is with that prospect?
I don't see how this is scaremongering? It's a statement, that is likely to happen, but it is not something taht should block the transaction!

More than likely, were Ryanair allowed to takeover Aer Lingus, the European Commission would require them to release some LHR slots to other carriers. So that has to be expected. From a consumer point of view, I think it'd be good to have more competition on the DUB-LHR route.
While, BA are now also in this route, perhaps, a better fit, would be SNT or LGW. If EI access to LHR becomes mopre restrictive, or non existant, it shuts down access for many people with connections. People do not connect via STN, and there is no competition on the STN - DUB route...

Aer Lingus are already doing this themselves. Since Christoph Mueller has taken over as CEO, the size of their long-haul and short-haul fleet has reduced and the size of their A321 fleet in particular has been cut in half. Ryanair on the other hand have stated they would grow the Aer Lingus short-haul and long-haul fleet. And they can do this because they have the capital to invest in new aircraft, and could also transfer Ryanair operated aircraft over to the Aer Lingus operation.

Incorrect - EI short haul fleet has actually grown... yes, the 321 fleet is now smaller, but the 320 fleet, and 319 fleet is bigger. Your comments are misleading! Also keep in mind, EI have additional 319's coming, and the 350's on order!
Ryanair is one of the largest employers in this country and is constantly hiring people in their head office in Dublin. So the idea that they'd outsource all the Aer Lingus staff functions overseas is a bit daft.

What would more likely happen is Ryanair head office staff would actually move into Aer Lingus' offices in Hangar 6 in order to obtain synergies and efficiencies in management functions.

I actually find this comment more concerning... FR haven't really increased the space they have at Dublin, so constantly hiring at Dublin would also lead one to bellieve they also have massive turn over, and is NOT such a good place to work... they may be a large employer, but are they a good one!

[waffler]

Thanks for your reply, debate is good and makes people think about the impending situation as it affects many people.
I will let others comment on your reply but a few items stand out.

There is no compulsion for aircraft taking Aer Lingus slots at heathrow to serve Dublin forever.
Aer Lingus returned 3 A321s to leasing companies and kept the ones they own.
Ryanair themselves employ few people directly, most are employed through agencies but I will them describe the joys of that.
Perhaps you could research how much tax Ryanair paid to revenue in Ireland over the last few years to see if this takeover will benefit the government.

I see Ryanair submitted their proposals to the EU today.
It will be good to flesh out his headlines.

Rgds