MANCHESTER - 8
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 2,069
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
However, I do think that it is beneficial for customers to realize that there is no automatic link between a 'low cost airline' and a 'low fare'.
Pick almost any date for MAN-LIS and you will get a much better deal with TAP Air Portugal than the " low cost" airline BMI Baby (esp if you have bags to check in !)
Like any other transaction shop around, & like Shed says never assume a LCC is always the best option.
Having mentioned TAP, I wonder if they are going to give the route any publicity ? Seen very little info about the route apart from the MA web site.
With TAPs South American network it also weakens the case for a BA/IB Madrid service, more so than the RYR flight.(IMHO)
Like any other transaction shop around, & like Shed says never assume a LCC is always the best option.
Having mentioned TAP, I wonder if they are going to give the route any publicity ? Seen very little info about the route apart from the MA web site.
With TAPs South American network it also weakens the case for a BA/IB Madrid service, more so than the RYR flight.(IMHO)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manchester
Posts: 478
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you clearly haven't been seen the Manchester Evening News. TP have been advertising most nights I have seen it recently, and I understand they have some space on buses in the Manchester area. TP, I have been told, are also pronoting the route to Manchester in Brazil, Angola, Cape Verde and Morocco. The connections to Sao Paulo are particularly good, so I expect it to be a winner for Brazil traffic too.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont know if there has been any official confirmation of this, but LH flights FRA-MAN are now showing as BD operated. The flight numbers have not changed, so I assume this is still a "Lufthansa" flight, wet lease operated by bmi, as opposed to "proper" BD flights.
Showing as operated by A320.
Showing as operated by A320.
Easyjet are pretty "p*ssed off" with the fact that MAN has got cosy with Ryanair. It is their view that MAN should have come to existing carriers if they really needed to increase traffic off peak. MAD, as I found out today, was being considered by EZY, whether this is the case i'm not sure. Longer term destination possibilities include BIO, OPO and VCE.
SHED, I agreed with you up to a point. The low cost structure of the LCC's have directly affected the fares they charge. We now pay less than we used to because of this and is precisely why the flag/full service carriers are more competitive. Although, more often than not LCC's are the cheaper option than you seem to have us believe.
Of course, the airline industry is full of misconceptions. Many passengers would class certain full service carriers as "no frills" as they don't get a meal or a free drink and just yesterday I was asked by a pax why we had to fly a crew member MXP-ATH to operate ATH-MAN (to cover an incapacited crew member) just to serve drinks.
SHED, I agreed with you up to a point. The low cost structure of the LCC's have directly affected the fares they charge. We now pay less than we used to because of this and is precisely why the flag/full service carriers are more competitive. Although, more often than not LCC's are the cheaper option than you seem to have us believe.
Of course, the airline industry is full of misconceptions. Many passengers would class certain full service carriers as "no frills" as they don't get a meal or a free drink and just yesterday I was asked by a pax why we had to fly a crew member MXP-ATH to operate ATH-MAN (to cover an incapacited crew member) just to serve drinks.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Manchester
Posts: 939
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MAN have cosied up to FR? That'd be news to FR who have said they are getting a worse deal now than the one that was offered to them when they decided to quit!?!
MAN isn't going to wait for U2 to announce services that other airlines can launch sooner. It's down to U2 to sort themselves out. 10 based aircraft by 2012. From Feb/March, they've got 20 months to base 4 more aircraft to meet their plan. Why not accelarate it to nip any FR expansion in the bud?
MAN isn't going to wait for U2 to announce services that other airlines can launch sooner. It's down to U2 to sort themselves out. 10 based aircraft by 2012. From Feb/March, they've got 20 months to base 4 more aircraft to meet their plan. Why not accelarate it to nip any FR expansion in the bud?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: U.K
Posts: 782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Easyjet are pretty "p*ssed off" with the fact that MAN has got cosy with Ryanair.
lol it's rich coming from the same people who were euphoric at FR's departure last time around. Sure, their deal is more reminiscent of a level playing field this time but for how long?
We all know that airports have ongoing relationships with many airlines and on a strategic level, it won't just be EZY who feel the same way.
The96er, so you suggest that an airline should have a monopoly on one route? Or how would you feel if IB launched BCN or AZ started FCO? I suspect you probably wouldn't mind then.....despite the incumbent having worked hard for their customer base. And a matter of weeks ago nobody thought poor old WW when TP launched LIS. As it is, EZY has grown the market where they compete with other airlines, the statistics prove it. That aside, what about SOF, ATH, RAK? A major based airline was always going to "step on the toes" of other carriers. Did anyone or would anyone complain if BA operate MUC, HEL, ZRH etc? Probably not.
The 10 a/c by 2012, in my opinion isn't going to happen but with 5 aircraft added in a little over 3 years, 4 of those in the last two, I don't think anyone can question the commitment of EZY to MAN. From past experience, can we say the same about FR?
We all know that airports have ongoing relationships with many airlines and on a strategic level, it won't just be EZY who feel the same way.
The96er, so you suggest that an airline should have a monopoly on one route? Or how would you feel if IB launched BCN or AZ started FCO? I suspect you probably wouldn't mind then.....despite the incumbent having worked hard for their customer base. And a matter of weeks ago nobody thought poor old WW when TP launched LIS. As it is, EZY has grown the market where they compete with other airlines, the statistics prove it. That aside, what about SOF, ATH, RAK? A major based airline was always going to "step on the toes" of other carriers. Did anyone or would anyone complain if BA operate MUC, HEL, ZRH etc? Probably not.
The 10 a/c by 2012, in my opinion isn't going to happen but with 5 aircraft added in a little over 3 years, 4 of those in the last two, I don't think anyone can question the commitment of EZY to MAN. From past experience, can we say the same about FR?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 936
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
easyflyer for the record I was not euphoric about FR's departure, in fact don't recall commenting ether way. I am not a big fan of FR but I can see why the deal has been done and still feel the same deal will have been on the table for others. EZY and Fr seem to co exist at other airports so why not Manchester.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: England
Age: 59
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
easyflyer83
The main difference between you and FR is the way you
engage the market.FR have always had a 'wham-bam'
publicity machine when opening new routes whereas Easy
have a more laid back approach.
We know what to expect from both of you - so lets wait
and see what happens.
MM
The main difference between you and FR is the way you
engage the market.FR have always had a 'wham-bam'
publicity machine when opening new routes whereas Easy
have a more laid back approach.
We know what to expect from both of you - so lets wait
and see what happens.
MM
Join Date: May 2005
Location: U.K
Posts: 782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
5 aircraft added in a little over 3 years, 4 of those in the last two
The day of the takeover, Easyjet was a one aircraft base. The 2nd arrived from May 2008. Aircraft number 3 arrived May 2009, followed by number 4 in January 2010, the 5th in May 2010 and the 6th will arrive in May this year.
GB Airways
Summer 05 1 A/C
Winter05/Summer 06 2 a/c
Winter 06 1a/c
Summer07 2a/c
Winter 07 1a/c
Now, per se, whilst i'm not a fan of Ryanair I admire them to an extent and I'm not questioning the deal although it sounds like Easyjet are. Consequently, they will be meeting with MAN on Monday. My point is that many on this forum (i wasn't being so specific as to aim at individuals) were championing MAN when FR left. More importantly, I was irritated more by 96er's comments regarding EZY's expansion at MAN that includes several key city destinations already operated. I was merely making the point that when a legacy launches a route in competition, his/her's views probably differ to that demonstrated in their postings. The same goes for many here. However, whilst having LH, SK, LX etc on MAN's apron is an aviation enthusiasts wet dream (and I too want to see as many carriers in MAN as possible) as air travellers do we really want to foster monopolies on these routes? As i said before, nobody minded when BA competed on FRA, VIE and CDG with LH, NG and AF respectively.
GB Airways
Summer 05 1 A/C
Winter05/Summer 06 2 a/c
Winter 06 1a/c
Summer07 2a/c
Winter 07 1a/c
Now, per se, whilst i'm not a fan of Ryanair I admire them to an extent and I'm not questioning the deal although it sounds like Easyjet are. Consequently, they will be meeting with MAN on Monday. My point is that many on this forum (i wasn't being so specific as to aim at individuals) were championing MAN when FR left. More importantly, I was irritated more by 96er's comments regarding EZY's expansion at MAN that includes several key city destinations already operated. I was merely making the point that when a legacy launches a route in competition, his/her's views probably differ to that demonstrated in their postings. The same goes for many here. However, whilst having LH, SK, LX etc on MAN's apron is an aviation enthusiasts wet dream (and I too want to see as many carriers in MAN as possible) as air travellers do we really want to foster monopolies on these routes? As i said before, nobody minded when BA competed on FRA, VIE and CDG with LH, NG and AF respectively.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 2,069
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I completely agree that Ryanair are here to force out competition and if all remains well they will serve the airport fantastically well. However, they are known for throwing tantrums and moving sticks very quickly.
Personally I think that the overriding factor here is that we live in a capitalist economy, one of the most competitive in the world, and it's not fair on us as customers to deprive us of that competition.
It all just depends on Ryanair's relationship with MAN over the long term...
If they want to get 5 million through the door then it's unlikely they're planning on going anywhere soon...
Personally I think that the overriding factor here is that we live in a capitalist economy, one of the most competitive in the world, and it's not fair on us as customers to deprive us of that competition.
It all just depends on Ryanair's relationship with MAN over the long term...
If they want to get 5 million through the door then it's unlikely they're planning on going anywhere soon...
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 1,578
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re RYR We have lost 5m pax in a little over 3 years !
That needs clawing back ASAP, as long as they pay commercial rates and are here for the long haul no problem !
RYR have bags of aircraft coming in and nowhere to put them. In terms of UK expansion the network ex STN is pretty much covered AND the rates there have gone thru the roof now they have to pay full landing fees etc.
2 or 3 aircraft added here and there at smaller regional airports such as Bristol, Birmingham and Newcastle isnt exactly going to make a dent on the profit and loss ! With the UK coming out of recession they need another major base where they can stick volumes !
That needs clawing back ASAP, as long as they pay commercial rates and are here for the long haul no problem !
RYR have bags of aircraft coming in and nowhere to put them. In terms of UK expansion the network ex STN is pretty much covered AND the rates there have gone thru the roof now they have to pay full landing fees etc.
2 or 3 aircraft added here and there at smaller regional airports such as Bristol, Birmingham and Newcastle isnt exactly going to make a dent on the profit and loss ! With the UK coming out of recession they need another major base where they can stick volumes !
Pilot of the Airwaves
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Close to the Med
Age: 74
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just spoken with the wife, who arrived at T3 today.
Not at all happy with queues at "UK Border" control and lack of Border Agency staff on duty......hence the queue.
Only just made her rail connection to Blackpool, despite having what should have been an "easy" 55 minutes from disembarking to make the train.
So slow were Border Agency staff, that baggage was waiting on the carousel.
All the ballcocks about "no space to put in an IRIS machine" at T3 needs seriously re-looking at, if they don't want to staff the place properly.
Not at all happy with queues at "UK Border" control and lack of Border Agency staff on duty......hence the queue.
Only just made her rail connection to Blackpool, despite having what should have been an "easy" 55 minutes from disembarking to make the train.
So slow were Border Agency staff, that baggage was waiting on the carousel.
All the ballcocks about "no space to put in an IRIS machine" at T3 needs seriously re-looking at, if they don't want to staff the place properly.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 2,069
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just spoken with the wife, who arrived at T3 today.
Not at all happy with queues at "UK Border" control and lack of Border Agency staff on duty......hence the queue.
Only just made her rail connection to Blackpool, despite having what should have been an "easy" 55 minutes from disembarking to make the train.
So slow were Border Agency staff, that baggage was waiting on the carousel.
All the ballcocks about "no space to put in an IRIS machine" at T3 needs seriously re-looking at, if they don't want to staff the place properly.
Not at all happy with queues at "UK Border" control and lack of Border Agency staff on duty......hence the queue.
Only just made her rail connection to Blackpool, despite having what should have been an "easy" 55 minutes from disembarking to make the train.
So slow were Border Agency staff, that baggage was waiting on the carousel.
All the ballcocks about "no space to put in an IRIS machine" at T3 needs seriously re-looking at, if they don't want to staff the place properly.
Thanks
Pilot of the Airwaves
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Close to the Med
Age: 74
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes the lack of staff is down to the Border Agency ( just 2 officers present).
However, the lack of an IRIS machine, which would ease this problem, the Border Agency will tell you is down to the airport management, who won't give them the space.
The lack of space argument has been going on for a considerable time, several years to my knowledge and needs dealing with.
As for staffing levels, that is down to the Chief Imigration Officer at the airport.
Two wrongs though, do not make a right, the passengers suffer and T3 UK Border, for whatever reason does not show the airport in a good light.
However, the lack of an IRIS machine, which would ease this problem, the Border Agency will tell you is down to the airport management, who won't give them the space.
The lack of space argument has been going on for a considerable time, several years to my knowledge and needs dealing with.
As for staffing levels, that is down to the Chief Imigration Officer at the airport.
Two wrongs though, do not make a right, the passengers suffer and T3 UK Border, for whatever reason does not show the airport in a good light.