MANCHESTER - 8

[Skipness One Echo]

I don't think it's down to the 'regional' aspect, it's more due to supply and competition.

LHR is one of, if not THE most competitive long haul airport in the world so therefore SQ has be far more price competitive however good their hard/soft products are. Less supply=higher fares. Ask SRB...

With that logic fares at Heathrow are low and airlines are paying mentally high prices to offer basement fares? It's not that simple of course, the front end are cross-subsidising the back end and there's more front end in London remember. This is part of the reason regional direct flying is more expensive in economy.

[MUFC_fan]

With that logic fares at Heathrow are low and airlines are paying mentally high prices to offer basement fares? It's not that simple of course, the front end are cross-subsidising the back end and there's more front end in London remember. This is part of the reason regional direct flying is more expensive in economy.

Obviously my point was very much black and white and in what is known as a 'perfect' economy.

Your point is very much valid also and goes to show that there are tens of different factors involved however, EK offer the same A380 on LHR and MAN routes yet fares are higher from MAN...

[Skipness One Echo]

Spread of more F and C over 2 A380s and 3 B77Ws means Y fares can be lower than MAN with 1 A380 and 1 B77W. Plus the fact that high fares discourage people from flying to "Manchester" in "North Britain". It's the only way to stop people flying there.

Now excuse me while I run away at speed....

[42psi]

Obviously my point was very much black and white and in what is known as a 'perfect' economy.

Your point is very much valid also and goes to show that there are tens of different factors involved however, EK offer the same A380 on LHR and MAN routes yet fares are higher from MAN...

There is also the "we charge what we can" aspect .....

prices aren't set by working out the cost and then adding a percentage .. the market is also looked at and once your costs are covered you price according to what you think the market will cough up.


Many years ago heard a wonderful radio interview with a Ford Motor Co. exec getting lambasted as to why the same car in the rest of europe cost less than in the UK.

Interviewer had been building up to the interview for some time and going on about digging into and getting answers etc...

His response was, we charge what we think the market will pay .. if we get it wrong we don't sell enough cars. We're in business to make as much profit as we can.

Sort of blew the rest of the interview out the window....

[MUFC_fan]

Spread of more F and C over 2 A380s and 3 B77Ws means Y fares can be lower than MAN with 1 A380 and 1 B77W.

Very true. However you also cannot avoid the fact of the 10s of other airlines flying East in direct competition...

There is also the "we charge what we can" aspect .....

prices aren't set by working out the cost and then adding a percentage .. the market is also looked at and once your costs are covered you price according to what you think the market will cough up.

It's called supply and demand. PED is king!

[Skipness One Echo]

Very true. However you also cannot avoid the fact of the 10s of other airlines flying East in direct competition...

Greater competition is an acknowledged fact I grant you but look at the yields that are possible. Consider why Continental spent "eye watering" money to move to Heathrow rather than add capacity elsewhere.

[MUFC_fan]

Greater competition is an acknowledged fact I grant you but look at the yields that are possible. Consider why Continental spent "eye watering" money to move to Heathrow rather than add capacity elsewhere.

I completely agree - LHR is a cash cow yet why are MAN fares higher in Y and J?

[roverman]

An Indian summer?

This interesting piece of news could raise the possibility of MAN getting a direct service to India?

Air India to shut down ?inefficient? Frankfurt hub | ATW Online

[Going loco]

Quite frankly it's prop estrous to compare Manchester to Birmingham, Leeds, Liverpool etc, they are in the wrong location, they do not have the transport links and in some instances are limited by both demand and indeed capacity.Based on major populations centres then yes for "half the country" Manchester is much more convenient.

I don't disagree. If the plan was for a Northern / Midlands superhub, I'd recommend MAN too. There isn't, so it's a moot point.

The point of my post was to highlight how you seem to flit between moaning that the UK regions "suffer" because of airlines focussing on one place (i.e London) and then advocating that, er....wouldn't it be great if airlines focussed all their efforts in one place (i..e Manchester). You've written chapter and verse on how BA have stopped MAN reaching it's full potential, but seem quite happy for lots of other airports not to reach their own potential just so MAN can benefit.

[hammerb32]

Quote:
Quite frankly it's prop estrous to compare Manchester to Birmingham, Leeds, Liverpool etc, they are in the wrong location, they do not have the transport links and in some instances are limited by both demand and indeed capacity.Based on major populations centres then yes for "half the country" Manchester is much more convenient.


Bagso,

Would agree that LPL and LBA aren't the easiest of places to get to but I can't think of another airport in the UK so well connected to transport as BHX, on the West Coast mainline, direct links the M6 and M42 etc. The key for MAN is that geographically it's in the centre of 3 major urban connurbation, Merseyside, Gtr Manchester and West Yourkshire, add to that Lancashire, South Yorks and North Wales you're probably looking at it being in the centre of about 10 million people. Add to that again the West and East Mids down the road you've got another 4.5 million within a 90 minute drive.

In my humble MAN is the only airport outside of the South East that's not a regional airport. It's the main hub for a good chunk of England and probably south Scotlands population, LPL, LBA and BHX primarily serve their metropolitan area. The issue MAN has, as documented here, is that fares are high from the airport, choice is now much more widely available. Hypothetic example, Mr Jones in Stretford wants to go to Dubai, from MAN it's £600, from BHX it's £450, Mr Jones may well say the £150 saving is worth the 90 minute drive down the road. The adverts referred to are therefore a good play to ensure people in the aformentioned areas consider MAN as their hub.

That's my view anyway.....

[Bagso]

]The point of my post was to highlight how you seem to flit between moaning that the UK regions "suffer" because of airlines focusing on one place (i.e. London) and then advocating that, er....wouldn't it be great if airlines focussed all their efforts in one place (i..e Manchester). You've written chapter and verse on how BA have stopped MAN reaching it's full potential, but seem quite happy for lots of other airports not to reach their own potential just so MAN can benefit. [/I]

Going Loco

I am confused by your argument ?

I'm not actually suggesting they focus on one place far from it, but lets "within reason" put demand where it originates, rather than artificially funnel it through one hub, having said that, the originating airports do at least have to be able to support that demand !

I applaud Easyjet, Jet2 and Ryanair who now run a massive range of service to European destinations from provincial airports that would have been unheard of 15 years ago, I am not sure any of my comments have ever said these should all go into Manchester ?

Long haul is different, EK have demonstrated that they can offer viable multiple frequency to the regions, Newcastle, Birmingham , Glasgow etc, but there are few airlines who could (or more critically would) want to do this.

I am simply pointing out that Heathrow and the surrounding airspace is pretty much full, the next best option is therefore Manchester unless we want to lose traffic to other European airports. Manchester is surely more convenient for potential passengers who live North Of Birmingham in cities like Leeds Liverpool etc, but aside from a few niche services, its folly to suggest that these airports could support a vast increase in schedules given the current mix of fares and profits generated by consolidation as we see at Heathrow.

If you can suggest another regional airport that has the infrastructure but can also put forward a viable case to support a massive increase of passengers whilst still returning good yields for airlines based on hubbing then by all means "suggestions on a postcard".

[Skipness One Echo]

put demand where it originates, rather than artificially funnel it through one hub

The word "artificial" is an odd choice. Heathrow is a natural hub being the crossroads of the empire and North American routes from the days of BOAC serving a world city. I make the point that there is a very good case IMHO that London not be considered simply as a major English city as it's not that English these days let's be honest. Population and airspace are only part of the issue, a great misunderstanding that London is a major cultural and economic magnet that few cities in the world can compete with.

As far as the South East is concerned, when you say

the next best option is therefore Manchester unless we want to lose traffic to other European airports.

you're right, but London looks outwards not upwards. The attraction to use the existing hub at CDG or AMS would always come to mind before heading up to Manchester. It's a pretty big cultural thing that you're really not going to get past.

Manchester gaining anything from a saturated South East has been the mantra for decades and it still hasn't happenend. When the day comes, the Blue / Yellow / Red politicians of the day will "reluctantly" allow mixed mode at Heathrow before dusting off runway three.

It's like the BBC. Moving to Manchester has great benefits on paper until you compare it to living in London. Finally the reason MAN's grand plan went wrong was that with the resurgence of LPL and LBA, those passengers chose to fly locally rather than be "artificially" funnelled into MAN.

I think it would have been better strategically had they been funnelled towrads a MAN that had been better invested in as I don't believe we need so many regional airports. A few well run larger fields would be way better I think. Glasgow and Edinburgh I'm looking at you.......

[simoncorbett]

Regions

As a regular user of BHX i have found it very noticeable that the world outside of europe only ever sees 'LONDON' as the option to catch a flight to,most US visitors even when they are going to Stratford upon avon or Warwick for a weekend fly to London........ i do realise they have a choice of many flights perday which helps aswell.
So what we need to change is the names of the airports......
Birmingham could be London quite a bit north,Manchester could be London very north etc...

Simon

[mytravela330]

i cant understand why no-one has tried to re-launch a direct LA service

[mickyman]

Simon,

As in 'Ryanair' the map you mean.........very good idea - that'll sort it!

MM

[clareview]

An Indian Summer

This story has been doing the rounds for a couple of months with various places being suggested to replace Frankfurt as an Air India hub. The most speculation was about Dublin even though its runway lenght potentially created problems. Anyway the latest from India a couple of weeks ago is that as the B777's can fly non stop from Delhi to North American Frankfurt could close without a successor and passengers from elsewhere in India would transfer from internal services to the US flights in Delhi

[Betablockeruk]

i cant understand why no-one has tried to re-launch a direct LA service

Yes, at least 1 west coast service would be welcome. I suppose VS LAS will be a reasonable tester how far a successful west direct service can be. Even better would be a MAN-LAS-AKL

[chiglet]

Whilst the "Legacy Carriers/Major Airlines" fly Long Haul out of the Cash Cow aka London....the "Region"s haven't got a chance.
Friends of mine booked BA MAN-JFK. "If you go by LHR, we will upgrade you to Club, and chauffer you from your home to LHR and back"
Support your local airport.......

[TSR2]

chiglet

Friends of mine booked BA MAN-JFK. "If you go by LHR, we will upgrade you to Club, and chauffer you from your home to LHR and back"

I flew that route many times on a FULL FARE economy ticket and it never happened to me.

[lasernigel]

Came in last night from Zurich. Travelator now gone..why?? Still stupid down and up the stairs again. Baggage took 30 mins plenty of empty carosels but 3 flights on number 3...bad planning or what??