MANCHESTER - 8

[14 loop]

RYR threw their teddy out of the pram at MAN because they couldn't get the deal they wanted. Now they are back again because they realise its a market they need to be in even if the price is higher than they may want to pay. More power to MAPLC for holding out - a good call.

Is this what has happened at MAN? There is a story that MANPLC has indeed done a deal with RYR to get them back rather than RYR going back to MAN and paying their previously announced fees.

Discuss.

[pwalhx]

Hasn't it been discussed at length in the past do we need to ressurect the will FR stay or will they throw their toys out of the pram debate again. MOL said he had to pay more than he wanted to come back, maybe he did maybe he didn't. The one thing to be sure about is expect the unexpected

[Ian Brooks]

Vinnym

Not a problem if they do,and as you say they have done it before and we are still here.
Manchester has probably the best mix of carriers of any airport in the UK,
you can choose what ever floats your boat Charter/loco/Legacy both European
and long haul ,new carriers are joing all the time and we have plenty of parking
and runway space.
Charters are a dying breed as more and more people go for flexibility and do their
own thing. I used to work for a large travel concern both in holiday and business travel and could see the IT market changing a long time ago. Very few people I work with would dream of going on a package holiday now as they book everything
on the internet as individual items taylored to their needs rather than the otherway
round even if it means flying from LPL or LBA etc
Of choice I would never fly Ryanair but many will but, I will always try and use Manchester as my airport of choice, not that I am flying much at moment
but thats another story as they say

Ian B

[spannersatcx]

Manchester does not need Cathy

whoever she may be!

[TSR2]

Ian Brooks

Very few people I work with would dream of going on a package holiday now as they book everything
on the internet as individual items taylored to their needs rather than the otherway

Yes, that may be true. I have noticed that you can book independently on the internet far cheaper than tour operator prices but this very much depends on where you want to go. If your selected destination is 4 hours flying time or more, you can often get a holiday package from a tour operator cheaper than booking independently if you search through the various major tour operators on-line.

[rkenyon]

JSCL

Have you actually flown on EasyJet?

I'm normally a full-cost payer, but for shorter flights EasyJet are fantastic. Legroom is fine (I'm 6'3"), and I'd definitely prefer to buy-on-board rather than get a pathetic BA 'sweet or savoury' snack. OK, I have to pay for booze, but I'd prefer to do that than fly indirect via LHR or wherever.

As for charters... Wow, my knees have still not recovered from my last Monarch flight a few years ago

[doublesix]

Not a single comment re the proposed China routes that may be opened up soon?? I'm not in the know but seems strange that no comments have been made particularly since a new route to say for example spain or germany usually evokes comments.

[JSCL]

@rkenyon I've flown EZY out of LPL twice in the last 5 years, so yes I have but not exactly often. It's an okay experience and I'm still not too bothered on short haul, although I do choose BMI for MAN-LHR but I did quite like my Flybe experience from MAN just recently, despite the deafening noise of those dash 8's. But for longer flights, I want room and comfort. Maybe I'm just too used to flying the 'full service' way with Qatar, BA, BMI and Cityjet.

[Skipness One Echo]

Don't CityJet have six abreast in the RJ85 and Qatar have ten abreast in the B777? Tis cosy is that.....VLM operating as CityJet do of course have loads of room on the Fokker 50, I did enjoy that. Unless your in business class, BMI is no longer full service alas.

Note : Qatar are NINE abreast in Y, it's Emirates that are ten abreast. Apologies.

[JSCL]

I've only ever been on an F50 Cityjet, first on Qatar often and a variety of bus/eco on BMI and BA.

[easyflyer83]

You cannot deny anyone the pleasure of full service if thats what they want. The problem is is that for your average economy passenger on a discounted ticket (which is a large proportion) there is actually not an awful lot of difference on short haul. Which then comes down to snobbery. Again nothing wrong with that, I can be snobby about my clothes. You would never get me wearing primark yet my Armani t shirt purchased last summer has several tiny holes in it. But i guess i admit i'm a bit of a name snob.

At GB they were steadily increasing capacity of both the A320/A321 in line with BA. 168 was the capacity of the A320 by the takeover date. Take into account the added wardrobes and bulkheads and the few extra inches on the first 4 rows (club convertor seats) and the seat pitch is very similar to Easyjet. The 29" relates to the last rows of Easyjet a/c especially on the A320 which is very tight. You can enjoy food and a wide choice of drink (to much choice if you ask me) you have to pay for it but it's on board unlike many full service flights.

I'm not denying that full service has it's plus points, it's definitely how they differenciate themselves, but much of the snobbery is just that.

[AGPwallah]

Skipness One Echo

Having flown Qatar B777 earlier this year I would point out their seating configuration is 3-3-3.

[AircraftOperations]

Not a single comment re the proposed China routes that may be opened up soon?? I'm not in the know but seems strange that no comments have been made particularly since a new route to say for example spain or germany usually evokes comments.

Wasn't sure that agreements existed for any non-London airport to have a direct service to China, and pretty sure that BA/VS would kick up a stink because they wouldn't want to operate one from MAN.

[JSCL]

@AO

Cathay...

[viscount702]

Air China have the rights to a daily service to PEK but have taken them up

[roverman]

China Syndrome

Apparent lack of excitement about a China service is no doubt a considered reaction by many industry observers who appreciate that this week's news release is just another small step rather than a leap toward this potential development. Looks like the MAN marketing team have continued their efforts to secure a direct service but they will know as well as any that it will take time. Whatever the tie up is with Beijing Airport, it would appear to be largely symbolic, but this is perhaps the way you do business with the Chinese, a slow and patient courting. It is perhaps wise to let the new capacity to the Gulf bed in, and to ensure that the long-standing SQ service remains viable. Hopefully the UK-Far East market will strengthen and then the time could be right for a direct China service. 787s will be around in say 2013 (although not sure about Air China), or perhaps a 747 combi could be a winner on MAN-PEK. We'll see.

[delta154]

I think the lack of excitement regarding the MEN article is that its overhyped (there are 2 other articles on the exact same subject that state this does NOT mean a route is imminant.)
Also, there seems to be a perrenial MEN article that always seems to state a route to China is in the offing, or India, or Thailand.

No doubt there will be a similar press release again next year.......

[mybrico]

China and for that matter Japan or Korea via the Gulf is a non starter for most people it takes too long, you may do it once or if you are on a budget but its going the wrong way for six hours. The Polar / Russia route is by far the best and so in my opinion the Gulf really doesn't compete to that part of the world. As a regular traveller to both Beijing and Shanghai loads can very thin on the BA and VS services to LHR even at just once a day. Hong Kong is different because its a regional hub. I really doubt that MAN can support a service to either Shanghai or Beijing. Maybe if tourist numbers from China increase with a relaxing of Visa requirements. Finally there is no open skies agreement and as yet London is not that well connected to Chinese cities.

[merchant sailors]

AY, KL, AF and LH all offer MAN pax Chinese markets and compete with BA via LON. Likes of AY offer shortest journey while KL now serves 5 cities in China.

The facts are not enough pax yet are taking these routes. When these volumes pick up their demand becomes transparent to airline network planners. This will be when they start to show more interest.

CX has a strong ethnic Cantonese market in Manchester, can offer South East Asia without visa issues and serves Oz/Nz markets too.

However they are up against EK, QR and EY who are swamping the markets with their capacity making the yield potential from MAN less attractive. Same applies to MH.

Perhaps for MAN to break through on the Asia markets again with more direct links, services with Air Asia X, Jetstar ans "son of SQ" will be the realistic way to compete with middle east capacitt and yield prospects.

Or if a significant company in either China or the Northwest has staff travelling every day in J class between the regions it could become a catalyst for a start of service. This is what happened with MAN - PHL and i heard was a also a factor in EY choosing MAN back in 2006.

Any of you know about a potential company that has this traffic flow currently?

[SN146]

SWISS last A332 was flown to MAN yesterday, presumably to be painted at Air Livery: anybody in the know as to its new operator? According to unconfirmed sources, it should be SN...