BELFAST INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT - BFS (Aldergrove)
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APD
The comparison with the Republic of Ireland needs to be based on facts. Yes the EU and its member states have given Ireland a substantial loan - its a repayable loan based on Ireland achieving certain targets and yes the UK is part of that loan arrangement and yes Ireland wants to encourage every possible visitor and yes Ireland is dropping APD but from €3 to zero whereas from Belfast to Newark its £60 and £12 each way from Northern Ireland to the rest of the UK
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There's two arguments for scrapping APD in NI, and it's important each is articulated clearly. From the statements given by airports and airlines it's clear that not everyone is singing from the same sheet.
1) NI residents depend on air travel as a necessity for domestic travel to a greater extent than people in England, Wales and Scotland.
2) NI is the only part of UK to have a land border with another EU country, and is very close to a major international airport in that country that has no APD.
Separating but articulating both points should make for a compelling argument to win folk over in Westminster.
I hope...
1) NI residents depend on air travel as a necessity for domestic travel to a greater extent than people in England, Wales and Scotland.
2) NI is the only part of UK to have a land border with another EU country, and is very close to a major international airport in that country that has no APD.
Separating but articulating both points should make for a compelling argument to win folk over in Westminster.
I hope...
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NI residents depend on air travel as a necessity for domestic travel to a greater extent than people in England, Wales and Scotland.
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Time will tell ..
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I don't understand why this should be the case.
With this move, NI will lose its last remaining rail and sail connection to Great Britain. Only Stena accept rail and sail tickets, and only from the Port of Belfast (even though Larne Harbour is rail connected
).The frankly quite comfortable (in a berth) London / Stranraer / Belfast overnight sleeper train was cut in the 1990s, the Newcastle / Carlisle / Stranraer / Belfast train was cut a few years ago, and soon you won't even be able to get a train to Glasgow.
If you still don't believe why the economy and people of NI are dependent on air travel, then I guess you think that this will appeal (pdf) to clients, employers and family members.
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Tigger2K8
Yes I appreciate the advantages of alternative transport on the mainland compared with NI, but I'm not so sure that a strong enough case could be made for lower ADT if based mainly on the need to visit friends and relations. I'm sure that the ADT at £12 (each way) would not stop most people from visiting relations although obviously it may be a factor if visiting many times per year.
I am no supporter of the ADT and all I am saying is that I find it difficult to understand why NI should be treated differently to the mainland with reference to Domestic flights. I do however have an open mind on this and I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.
Yes I appreciate the advantages of alternative transport on the mainland compared with NI, but I'm not so sure that a strong enough case could be made for lower ADT if based mainly on the need to visit friends and relations. I'm sure that the ADT at £12 (each way) would not stop most people from visiting relations although obviously it may be a factor if visiting many times per year.
I am no supporter of the ADT and all I am saying is that I find it difficult to understand why NI should be treated differently to the mainland with reference to Domestic flights. I do however have an open mind on this and I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.
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There is a ferry from Belfast to Birkenhead that takes either all day or all night but then trains or buses or cars are needed. Someone living in London and needing to visit Edinburgh on business can fly, take the train, the coach or drive. Someone in Northern Ireland needing to go to Edinburgh must drive via the ferry or fly - less choice
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There is much more to the issue than NI folk visiting friends and relatives. Inward investment and inward tourism is a big issue - per head of population Northern Ireland lags way behind the Republic in tourism numbers, partly due to the lack of a level playing field - someone from the US visiting Northern Ireland has to find an extra £60 complared to someone visiting the Republic of Ireland
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The EU are not going to let NI have no tax and the rest of UK have it. It casts as discrimination and UK gov will have a court case on there hands with EU. Other countries in EU are joined and some have tax and others don't.
I also see NI are now giving out about ROI reducing VAT of some services.
I also see NI are now giving out about ROI reducing VAT of some services.
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The EU are not going to let NI have no tax and the rest of UK have it. It casts as discrimination and UK gov will have a court case on there hands with EU. Other countries in EU are joined and some have tax and others don't.
APD is not payable on flights departing from airports in the Scottish Highlands and Islands.
The following airports, capable of taking dutiable aircraft, are situated in the Highlands and Islands region for the purpose of this exemption:
- Barra
- Benbecula
- Campbeltown
- Inverness
- Islay
- Kirkwall
- Stornoway
- Sumburgh
- Tiree and
- Wick
So APD tax differences already exist (albeit on a smaller scale) within the UK.
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APD........
The EU are not going to let NI have no tax and the rest of UK have it. It casts as discrimination and UK gov will have a court case on there hands with EU. Other countries in EU are joined and some have tax and others don't.
I also see NI are now giving out about ROI reducing VAT of some services.
As I have said people in N.I pick and chose the parts of the UK they like and the bits they don't. They complain when the Republic makes itself more compeditive, but its fine when hundreds of thousands of people in the Republic spend their money up North, taking business away from our own. They need to realise they can't have everything their own way and get over the APD Tax, your part of the UK, you should pay just as much as someone living in Scotland to fly.
I also see NI are now giving out about ROI reducing VAT of some services.
As I have said people in N.I pick and chose the parts of the UK they like and the bits they don't. They complain when the Republic makes itself more compeditive, but its fine when hundreds of thousands of people in the Republic spend their money up North, taking business away from our own. They need to realise they can't have everything their own way and get over the APD Tax, your part of the UK, you should pay just as much as someone living in Scotland to fly.
Last edited by AOCMALL0W; 8th Jul 2011 at 23:49.
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very good post AOCMALL0W.
All on thomson website.
It says they are stopping the Sharm el Sheik route on the 13 of October on wikipedia. It also says they are starting Minorca next May. Is any of this true>>??
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AOCMALLOW,
NI politicians and business people are entitled to lobby for any economic change that brings benefit or advantage to NI plc. As already highlighted in this thread, UK Customs & Excise already exempt some Scottish airports from APD, so the precedent is there, and the EU have no power to counter it. Further, if APD is devolved to Scottish, Welsh or NI legislatures, then those bodies could apply it as they see fit.
You seem quite annoyed that "people in NI pick and chose (sic) the parts of the UK they like". I take it you mean the parts of UK legislation rather than the towns / cities / regions? Well, anyone will complain about some facets of life in their own country. It doesn't mean you don't lobby to change it.
ROI will rightly fight it's own corner...so don't try to deny NI citizens the right to call for changes that will work in our own favour either. In the context of the UK, NI has a reasonable argument for reduced APD. We don't need to justify that to Dublin...it is our governments responsibility to ensure all parts of the UK are competitive, and if lower APD in NI helps to achieve that, then we are entitled to argue for it.
NI politicians and business people are entitled to lobby for any economic change that brings benefit or advantage to NI plc. As already highlighted in this thread, UK Customs & Excise already exempt some Scottish airports from APD, so the precedent is there, and the EU have no power to counter it. Further, if APD is devolved to Scottish, Welsh or NI legislatures, then those bodies could apply it as they see fit.
You seem quite annoyed that "people in NI pick and chose (sic) the parts of the UK they like". I take it you mean the parts of UK legislation rather than the towns / cities / regions? Well, anyone will complain about some facets of life in their own country. It doesn't mean you don't lobby to change it.
ROI will rightly fight it's own corner...so don't try to deny NI citizens the right to call for changes that will work in our own favour either. In the context of the UK, NI has a reasonable argument for reduced APD. We don't need to justify that to Dublin...it is our governments responsibility to ensure all parts of the UK are competitive, and if lower APD in NI helps to achieve that, then we are entitled to argue for it.
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NI has a reasonable argument for reduced APD. We don't need to justify that to Dublin
People using the bail out loan as an excuse when it has nothing to do with it. The main reason UK gave it was because the ROi supports the NI ecomney and likewise the other way round.
You seem quite annoyed that "people in NI pick and chose
If the tax goes airlines are not going to add routes of reduce prices. Airlines have no problems adding sun routes and paying the tax. The only real benefit will be the airlines and not he ecomney.
I do accept the charge needs to go for CO which NI needs the route and that will be the only real benefit.
Look at it this way Easyjet have no problem adding BFS, GLA and EDI from SEN but on the other had they are saying the tax is damaging them. That is them being hypocritical. So why add routes if the tax is so damaging to domestic flights.
Can anybody justify that?
Last edited by Jamie2k9; 9th Jul 2011 at 00:26.
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They have a point. You didn't see ROI going to London to make NI have the same VAT as ROI when many people were going up North to shop. Even though they weren't happy about the VAT rate.
Time to get real here folks. NI people can rightfully lobby for betterment of our own economy, just as ROI folk can for theirs. In this case, NI is arguing for the equalising of a tax that advantages our nearest competitor...we are lobbying our own government, about an internal tax. That's exactly what our representatives are paid to do.
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The reason that the ROI government did not lobby London was because no government has any right to interfere with the internal poilitical decisions of another country...pure and simple. Let's not pretend this was some charitable decision on the part of Dail Eireann.
Time to get real here folks. NI people can rightfully lobby for betterment of our own economy, just as ROI folk can for theirs. In this case, NI is arguing for the equalising of a tax that advantages our nearest competitor...we are lobbying our own government, about an internal tax. That's exactly what our representatives are paid to do.
Time to get real here folks. NI people can rightfully lobby for betterment of our own economy, just as ROI folk can for theirs. In this case, NI is arguing for the equalising of a tax that advantages our nearest competitor...we are lobbying our own government, about an internal tax. That's exactly what our representatives are paid to do.
This is the way media are writing about it. Don't want to name the paper involved.
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Look at it this way Easyjet have no problem adding BFS, GLA and EDI from SEN but on the other had they are saying the tax is damaging them. That is them being hypocritical. So why add routes if the tax is so damaging to domestic flights.
Can anybody justify that?
Can anybody justify that?