BELFAST INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT - BFS (Aldergrove)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newcastle NI
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Aocmallow
There is a huge question mark as to whether the ROI will be able to fund the interest payments let alone the principal give the small size of it's economy, but that is a side show to the APD issue.
In many ways the same logic of either the South or the North applies to the UK mainland which is of course an island, you could argue that APD should only apply to flights within the UK mainland in order to reduce air travel within the UK.
APD is blunt but very effective tax raising instrument wearing green clothes and it will take a lot of b*lls to scrap without a political bun fight, the same applies to the feed in tarif paid for solar panels that is driving up utility bills an bio fuels forcing up wheat prices.
Back to BFS
By how much do people think flights would increase if APD were scrapped for flights in and or out of NI? Or is this just about CO? It would be cheaper just to scrap the charge for US flights
In many ways the same logic of either the South or the North applies to the UK mainland which is of course an island, you could argue that APD should only apply to flights within the UK mainland in order to reduce air travel within the UK.
APD is blunt but very effective tax raising instrument wearing green clothes and it will take a lot of b*lls to scrap without a political bun fight, the same applies to the feed in tarif paid for solar panels that is driving up utility bills an bio fuels forcing up wheat prices.
Back to BFS
By how much do people think flights would increase if APD were scrapped for flights in and or out of NI? Or is this just about CO? It would be cheaper just to scrap the charge for US flights
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Facelookbovvered
Then what the hell does it have to do with you? I only got involved because of your idiotic and unjust remarks. We will be paying back every penny we recieve, if we use the money the UK is so kindly "giving" us with interest not to mention the commitment fee we pay if we don't use it. It is not free. You also mention our small economy which is worth quite a lot to the UK including LITTLE Northern Ireland. We could chose to drag you down with us if we decide enough is enough and default. People in Northern Ireland should pay just as much as every other British citizen to fly, it wouldn't be fair to people on the island of Britain. N.I gets way more than its fair share of capital to run the place and you expect to be exempt from APD as well? Everyone in the UK, given the state of its economy, has had to make cuts and contributions why shouldn't N.I also?
If the CO service isn't viable under present conditions that it will be cut...thats business and aviation...get over it, the UK government I am sure will have a lot more important things to worry about then N.I residents using DUB to go to Spain or wherever on their holidays.
If the CO service isn't viable under present conditions that it will be cut...thats business and aviation...get over it, the UK government I am sure will have a lot more important things to worry about then N.I residents using DUB to go to Spain or wherever on their holidays.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Larne, UK
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*sigh* is this still the BFS topic?
if N.Ireland deserves to pay the same level of ADP as the mainland then does that mean those in the exempt Scottish airports also should pay?
Jobs and important business contracts could be lost (years of hard work) if CO pulls the route... even if long-haul had a tax reduction it would help.
AOCMALL0W, you can be rest assured that if things were reversed you would be kicking up believing that ROI gets a fair rate.. is it the threat of N.I being able to compete against DUB and other airports thats got you so objected?
if N.Ireland deserves to pay the same level of ADP as the mainland then does that mean those in the exempt Scottish airports also should pay?
Jobs and important business contracts could be lost (years of hard work) if CO pulls the route... even if long-haul had a tax reduction it would help.
AOCMALL0W, you can be rest assured that if things were reversed you would be kicking up believing that ROI gets a fair rate.. is it the threat of N.I being able to compete against DUB and other airports thats got you so objected?
Join Date: Jun 2011
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AOCMALL0W, you can be rest assured that if things were reversed you would be kicking up believing that ROI gets a fair rate.. is it the threat of N.I being able to compete against DUB and other airports thats got you so objected?
BFS will never compete against DUB on any route. Currently what has BFS got that DUB dosn't???????????
Jamie2k9 i also read that article and the journalist clearly done no research. If he did he would know that ROI have not taken a penny off UK yet.
The only benefit to NI if it is scrapped is that CO will stay. Until CO brought it to attention of NI gov, no other airline in NI was making a big deal out of it.
I can see the US tax going to but not the other one. Something will have to give some where if all travel tax is scrapped from NI.
Your right it is getting a little boaring now.
Join Date: Dec 2010
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airport66
Well take CO have stated they won't give up on Bfs/newark lighly they will give the government a chance to sort out the APD issue which will be sorted if people want to go from Dub after that well let them could'nt care less Bfs get the route secured then thats good for them and then it will give them bigger chance in getting the Toronto route re-stated .The loads on the sanford have been brilliant 4oo pax each time not bad for a route that was doomedto fail even before started.Maybe the Dub supporters are afraid of Bfs getting the APD scrapped taking more business from Dub after all its around 1.7 million per annum.p.S Sorry for my grammer
Join Date: Dec 2010
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airport66
Well how do you know that do you work in the airline industry and at BFS.Can tell you that you are so wrong just someone that comes on here with a silly opinion
Do you work in the airline industry or at Bfs well can tell you something you are totally wrong trust me.
Do you work in the airline industry or at Bfs well can tell you something you are totally wrong trust me.
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Work in airline industry.
BFS needs to get more flights to Europe and if tax goes airlines have to give something in return like ROI which is working and airlines are adding rotues and increasing services.
Air Canada only to fly to major European cities. Rule them out. Also AC DUB - YYZ season is very short compared to Air Transit. Air Transit fly to major and others cities. Would be the one that would look at BFS. Although they have aircraft leaving the feet and they have no orders of new ones.
As BFS is so close to DUB and DUB is the main transport hub of the island airlines and particually US carriers would chose it and they would get a better deal.
BFS needs to get more flights to Europe and if tax goes airlines have to give something in return like ROI which is working and airlines are adding rotues and increasing services.
Air Canada only to fly to major European cities. Rule them out. Also AC DUB - YYZ season is very short compared to Air Transit. Air Transit fly to major and others cities. Would be the one that would look at BFS. Although they have aircraft leaving the feet and they have no orders of new ones.
As BFS is so close to DUB and DUB is the main transport hub of the island airlines and particually US carriers would chose it and they would get a better deal.
Join Date: Dec 2010
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airport66
Well its quite obvious you are from down south or DUB supporter you are so wrong one of the airlines mentioned have comitted to BFS if they get things sorted they will give it a go.Get rid of theses taxes and be easier for them to do business with the airlines.
Join Date: Jun 2011
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From London but its you choose weather you believe it. No odds to me.
If the taxes go BFS is still at a disadvantage.
Start US route from DUB - don't pay full airport charges until the 6 year of operation.
Start US route from BFS - pay full airport charges.
If the taxes go BFS is still at a disadvantage.
Start US route from DUB - don't pay full airport charges until the 6 year of operation.
Start US route from BFS - pay full airport charges.
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airport66
Of course Dub has big advantage over Bfs bigger market plus catchment surely thats going to happen an airline will go were it gets the best deal but if a flight started from BFS to say YYZ will fill the aircraft.There has been flights to YYZ before from both airports and they have been successful the problem is the airlines want money to start up they know the market is there and know the airport wants the route so they push the airport as far as they can push them .Aircanada have loads of aircraft sitting doing nothing and the right size to do the BFSoperation so i say to the 1.7million people who fly from Dub and come from the north support your own airport 600 thousand of those pax fly to the usa.
Join Date: Feb 2009
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APD etc.
Level playing fields are almost impossible. Firstly there can be government intervention with the likes of APD (and the UK did have Westminister and, I think European, permission to have the Air Route Development grant a few years ago) then airport owners can do special deals to get airlines to start routes - perhaps such incentives can be broadly based (any new route) or narrowly focused - e.g routes to the US.Then comes the PSO subsidies to support routes to remote regions in the EU. Finally general taxation policy - corporation tax, tax on fuel etc. all play a part
The Irish government, and Dublin airport, have made use of most of these and, of course, APD in the Republic is being dropped to try to help reverse the disasterous drop in tourism numbers, not caused by the recession in Ireland but by the worldwide economic downturn.
the simple fact is that Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK to have a land border with another country or, to put it another way, Great Britain is one fo the very few EU countries not to have a land border
The Irish government, and Dublin airport, have made use of most of these and, of course, APD in the Republic is being dropped to try to help reverse the disasterous drop in tourism numbers, not caused by the recession in Ireland but by the worldwide economic downturn.
the simple fact is that Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK to have a land border with another country or, to put it another way, Great Britain is one fo the very few EU countries not to have a land border
Join Date: Feb 2009
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j636
Who or what is Air TRANSIT and Air CANFA?
Air Transat operated successfully in to BFS from Toronto for many years but withdrew a couple of years ago, probably due to intense competition from Zoom and Globespan. Air Canada has also operated over the years into BFS (with Tristars and then B747's)
Of course Air Transat has built its summer operation in Dublin to a 4 times a week (some services split between Toronto and Montreal) and Air Canada is daily.
Similarly not many years ago there was a long (March-October) season weekly from BFS to Orlando/Sanford (with 2 flights a week in the peak) this has now reduced to a couple of flights per season.
Is everyone driving to Dublin?
Would the right size aircraft, with similar APD levels as the Republic, encourage Northern Ireland business to both places?
Who or what is Air TRANSIT and Air CANFA?
Air Transat operated successfully in to BFS from Toronto for many years but withdrew a couple of years ago, probably due to intense competition from Zoom and Globespan. Air Canada has also operated over the years into BFS (with Tristars and then B747's)
Of course Air Transat has built its summer operation in Dublin to a 4 times a week (some services split between Toronto and Montreal) and Air Canada is daily.
Similarly not many years ago there was a long (March-October) season weekly from BFS to Orlando/Sanford (with 2 flights a week in the peak) this has now reduced to a couple of flights per season.
Is everyone driving to Dublin?
Would the right size aircraft, with similar APD levels as the Republic, encourage Northern Ireland business to both places?
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Of course Air Transat has built its summer operation in Dublin to a 4 times a week (some services split between Toronto and Montreal)
YUL - direct 1 weekly
YYZ - direct 2 weekly, via SNN 2 weekly
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Is everyone driving to Dublin?
Would the right size aircraft, with similar APD levels as the Republic, encourage Northern Ireland business to both places?
Would the right size aircraft, with similar APD levels as the Republic, encourage Northern Ireland business to both places?
With competitive fares, NI people will generally favour BFS. The road to DUB is much improved, and T2 is a massive improvement over T1, but the relative ease of getting through BFS coupled with it's nearness makes it a given, if the fares are similar.
We're proving that 4 x JFK is viable (and more in summer), and we know there is a market for YYZ. Add in a very strong seasonal MCO, and there is clearly scope for long-haul at BFS. Maybe the arrival of 787s (AC/VS etc.) will offer something...
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Not lightly as all you get from Belfast is a flight to a hoilday resort.
BFS will never compete against DUB on any route. Currently what has BFS got that DUB dosn't???????????
BFS will never compete against DUB on any route. Currently what has BFS got that DUB dosn't???????????
i used to travel to Canada quite often, last time i went was with GSM sometime between 2004-2007.... have flown out of DUB once or twice in my life, but have vowed not to do so again the drive annoys me, especially after a long flight.. now if only BFS had a couple more direct flights during summer... oh wait, we would if APD was dropped / reduced... as far as i remember APD is why TCX had planned not to run any long haul this year, however they are performing a handful of flights, which seem to be at full capacity, if not closer... which proves the demand is there.
The tax is harmful in general, to all 3 airports in N.I, not just BFS.. there could be some real growth if something changes..
Obviously you support DUB and will type anything to dismiss N.I to get a fair tax system, i know i would more than likely be negative in my posts if N.I had no tax / cheaper tax and ROI was wanting to drop theirs
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The tax is harmful in general, to all 3 airports in N.I, not just BFS.. there could be some real growth if something changes
CO has a good case but the other carriers (EZY, EI, LS, TOM) don't and the airlines will be the only benefit in there profits, no extra passengers from Europe, UK to NI if the tax goes.
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Tigger:
Not exactly, it proves the demand is there for the 12th fortnight period. You will note that there are no 'through' flights this year, only dedicated BFS passenger flights. That is because of the Border Force requirement to have transiting pax get off at the first point of entry and go through immigration complete with their belongings then reboard the same aircraft to go onwards to MAN, LGW, GLA or wherever. That had not been the case previously and so the longhaul season could be extended by combining pax from other UK airportsthrough BFS.
It is nice to see full aircraft but obviously the demand isn't there for a longer term or TCX would be providing a longer service period.
however they are performing a handful of flights, which seem to be at full capacity, if not closer... which proves the demand is there.
It is nice to see full aircraft but obviously the demand isn't there for a longer term or TCX would be providing a longer service period.
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On another internet forum, a poster states that he has recently got a job as EZY crew at Belfast, and that new routes in the pipeline for BFS include Manchester (confirmed), Southend (rumoured), Athens, Prague and Tenerife.
I could almost see Prague and Tenerife as potentials, but Athens??? Currently only LGW, MAN and EDI have Athens flights from EZY, unlikely I think. Anyone shed any light??
I could almost see Prague and Tenerife as potentials, but Athens??? Currently only LGW, MAN and EDI have Athens flights from EZY, unlikely I think. Anyone shed any light??
Join Date: Jun 2010
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So does this mean EZY may base a A320 here. SEN is confirmed goes on sale sometime this month.
Have to agree. ATH is a very expensive airport to operate form and don't think there would be demand for it although other Greek routes would work.
but Athens??? Currently only LGW, MAN and EDI have Athens flights from EZY, unlikely I think.