DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5
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I covered shifts at MME for Midland back in 1997/98. I was BFS based at the time. Really loved working there. Good buzz and great staff throughout. Even loved staying at the George Hotel ( think that was the name ). Sounds as if times are bad. I regularly check the Departures and its depressing to look at. MME just needs 1 airline to come in and start a few routes. The local people can only support an airport if it has flights on which to travel. Good luck MME.
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Teesside forever?
From the giddy heights of nearly 1 million passengers per year down to only two hundred thousand. There are a number of reasons for this and this downward trend cannot be blamed on one factor alone.
A lack of investment by the local council owners. For an airport to expand in a highly competitive market with major competitors less than 1 hour away the existing facilities need to be continuously improved. This does not come cheap and understandably many, if not all local council-owned and run regional airports have over the years been sold with the councils retaining a minority (controlling?) stake.
Management (!). Where to start with this one? Over the years a lack of a clear plan and focus, when others were actively encouraging the airlines to come and try their facilities. When package holidays began to be affordable for the masses, Teesside sat back and waited for the operators to come and knock on the door. Once established up the road or on top of a hill and getting a good service and building up a strong customer base why would any operator want to open another base with the costs involved and uncertainty that goes with any new route? The damage was done 20 - 30 years ago! A drive for low-cost airlines and some local publicity might have helped but all to often a trip to the travel agents asking for a holiday from Teesside was met with "they don't fly from there!" or a surcharge of £30 or £40 per person.
Teesside or Durham Tees Valley? What's in a name? Which numpty (probably a highly paid consultant) decided to re-brand an existing local company with something which the majority of local people including the staff do not like or associate with? It is confusing to foreign travellers as it is no where near Durham. Did no-one tell the board that only a certain number of characters can fit on most airport FIDS. TEESSIDE did, DURHAM TEES VALLEY is usually shortened or people until recently still referred to Teesside! Don't get me started on the road signs, a complete shambles. If one more person tells me that the name change / re-branding was as at request of the airlines I will bite their arms off. Where are these airlines now? Many famous brands spent decades building up a loyal following and found to their cost that changing a name was a recipe for disaster. Who remembers Consignia ?
The Economic downturn & ease of travel to other airports. The current economic downturn affects us all too various extent and Teesside along with some other regional airports may suffer more than the bigger airports. The higher cost of everything it seems including oil prices means less £, $, and Euros to spend. Less people are going abroad on holidays; businesses are cutting their travel budgets. The internet enables the high street travel agents to be by-passed in the search for the lowest fare available thus cutting margins. The internet also allows web-based business conferences again cutting down on travel needs. Airlines are able to negotiate very hard contracts with little if any direct fees for the airport operator. A bigger airport with a mix of low-cost, long haul, package holidays, freight & will survive by making savings and looking at every aspect of its' operation. Smaller airports which rely on only a few operators will struggle. Instead of charging people who still use the airport a fee of £6, why not offer free parking and make a publicity campaign about it. People these days think nothing of driving to Newcastle or Manchester (or using the Trans Pennine rail service) if they think they are saving money. Do something different before it's too late!
Hopefully Teesside will struggle on in some form by reducing its hours, closing half the terminal to save costs, etc. But until there are more cars in the car park, more pints of lager consumed in the bar(s) (?) and more queues at the security control point it will be a long and difficult road.
All the best...
A lack of investment by the local council owners. For an airport to expand in a highly competitive market with major competitors less than 1 hour away the existing facilities need to be continuously improved. This does not come cheap and understandably many, if not all local council-owned and run regional airports have over the years been sold with the councils retaining a minority (controlling?) stake.
Management (!). Where to start with this one? Over the years a lack of a clear plan and focus, when others were actively encouraging the airlines to come and try their facilities. When package holidays began to be affordable for the masses, Teesside sat back and waited for the operators to come and knock on the door. Once established up the road or on top of a hill and getting a good service and building up a strong customer base why would any operator want to open another base with the costs involved and uncertainty that goes with any new route? The damage was done 20 - 30 years ago! A drive for low-cost airlines and some local publicity might have helped but all to often a trip to the travel agents asking for a holiday from Teesside was met with "they don't fly from there!" or a surcharge of £30 or £40 per person.
Teesside or Durham Tees Valley? What's in a name? Which numpty (probably a highly paid consultant) decided to re-brand an existing local company with something which the majority of local people including the staff do not like or associate with? It is confusing to foreign travellers as it is no where near Durham. Did no-one tell the board that only a certain number of characters can fit on most airport FIDS. TEESSIDE did, DURHAM TEES VALLEY is usually shortened or people until recently still referred to Teesside! Don't get me started on the road signs, a complete shambles. If one more person tells me that the name change / re-branding was as at request of the airlines I will bite their arms off. Where are these airlines now? Many famous brands spent decades building up a loyal following and found to their cost that changing a name was a recipe for disaster. Who remembers Consignia ?
The Economic downturn & ease of travel to other airports. The current economic downturn affects us all too various extent and Teesside along with some other regional airports may suffer more than the bigger airports. The higher cost of everything it seems including oil prices means less £, $, and Euros to spend. Less people are going abroad on holidays; businesses are cutting their travel budgets. The internet enables the high street travel agents to be by-passed in the search for the lowest fare available thus cutting margins. The internet also allows web-based business conferences again cutting down on travel needs. Airlines are able to negotiate very hard contracts with little if any direct fees for the airport operator. A bigger airport with a mix of low-cost, long haul, package holidays, freight & will survive by making savings and looking at every aspect of its' operation. Smaller airports which rely on only a few operators will struggle. Instead of charging people who still use the airport a fee of £6, why not offer free parking and make a publicity campaign about it. People these days think nothing of driving to Newcastle or Manchester (or using the Trans Pennine rail service) if they think they are saving money. Do something different before it's too late!
Hopefully Teesside will struggle on in some form by reducing its hours, closing half the terminal to save costs, etc. But until there are more cars in the car park, more pints of lager consumed in the bar(s) (?) and more queues at the security control point it will be a long and difficult road.
All the best...
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nearly50......
you missed one factor...economic realism. There are too many airports in the north of England all chasing the same low-yielding passenger traffic. Sad for DTV because it was there before DCS and the boom at places like Leeds/Bradford. Realistically, in terms of passenger traffic the north is dominated by MAN, with room for LPL, LBA, and NCL to service some local traffic. That is the only way it can realistically operate, but in the absence of any government strategy for traffic distribution, the markets will decide and there will be casualties.
Airports like DTV need to play on their strengths and look for where will be a demand for aerospace industry sites with airfield (but not neccesarily airport) facilities.
Forget chasing low yielding passengers and instead look for more Cobhams, more fire training schools, more aircraft maintenance, more flying training, more military support services, niche freight, aircraft storage etc. All can be profitable uses of the site which secure a future for DTV.
you missed one factor...economic realism. There are too many airports in the north of England all chasing the same low-yielding passenger traffic. Sad for DTV because it was there before DCS and the boom at places like Leeds/Bradford. Realistically, in terms of passenger traffic the north is dominated by MAN, with room for LPL, LBA, and NCL to service some local traffic. That is the only way it can realistically operate, but in the absence of any government strategy for traffic distribution, the markets will decide and there will be casualties.
Airports like DTV need to play on their strengths and look for where will be a demand for aerospace industry sites with airfield (but not neccesarily airport) facilities.
Forget chasing low yielding passengers and instead look for more Cobhams, more fire training schools, more aircraft maintenance, more flying training, more military support services, niche freight, aircraft storage etc. All can be profitable uses of the site which secure a future for DTV.
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Blackpool, Newquay ,Durham and Norwich are all walking the same tightrope.
I'm a firm believer that the problems we are seeing are temporary. In the spirit of David Cameron (dare I
) at the conference today,
Right now we need to be energised [yes, I hate this word too], not paralysed by gloom and fear.
Let's reject the pessimism. Let's bring on the can-do optimism.
Aero Mad said:
I would really question that - all they have for W11/12 is the (sometimes down to 1 daily) LGW with Flybe, 4 weekly MAN with Flybe (replacing a previous service by the now defunct Air Southwest) and few a Twotters a day to the Scillies - that's it!
Sorry for thread creep.....
Newquay is doing all right
Sorry for thread creep.....
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Newquay is doing all right
however main traffic market of DTV is to service local market enabling people to fly FROM, whereas NQY main function is as a destination enabling people to fly TO it. Can't see as to how anyone could deduce anything usefull in attempting to compare / correlate pax no.'s (or lack of...) between the two sites.
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I'm sorry skyman, but I am simply making a point about a previous statement on the thread (that of Ye Olde Pilot). All regional airports slow down in winter. However, rumour has it that Newquay will see Aurigny fill the breach left by ASW on the Jersey route, whilst Loganair has announced officially that it will fulfil a similar role on the Glasgow route as of spring next year.
Back to thread...
Back to thread...
September stats:
Aug 2011 passengers - 15,224 (down 41.3% on Aug 2010)
Rolling year passengers - 198,728 (down 12.4% on same period last year)
Source - http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport...Statistics.pdf
Looking on a per route basis (numbers from CAA provisional stats)
..................2011..2010
Luton...............0......28 -100%
Aberdeen....2,843..2,956 -4%
Glasgow...........0........8 -100%
Dublin..............0..1,214 -100%
Catania........292........0
Verona.........288........0
Amsterdam.8,966.10,078 -11%
Alicante...........0..4,103 -100%
Palma........2,305..2,155 +7%
Bodrum...........0...1,145 -100%
Dalaman..........0...2,193 -100%
Burgas............0...1,132 -100%
With regards to possible future developments rather purely in the past, the 11% decline on the Amsterdam route is concerning. The NCL-AMS route had a 9% increase in passenger numbers in Sep 2011
Aug 2011 passengers - 15,224 (down 41.3% on Aug 2010)
Rolling year passengers - 198,728 (down 12.4% on same period last year)
Source - http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport...Statistics.pdf
Looking on a per route basis (numbers from CAA provisional stats)
..................2011..2010
Luton...............0......28 -100%
Aberdeen....2,843..2,956 -4%
Glasgow...........0........8 -100%
Dublin..............0..1,214 -100%
Catania........292........0
Verona.........288........0
Amsterdam.8,966.10,078 -11%
Alicante...........0..4,103 -100%
Palma........2,305..2,155 +7%
Bodrum...........0...1,145 -100%
Dalaman..........0...2,193 -100%
Burgas............0...1,132 -100%
With regards to possible future developments rather purely in the past, the 11% decline on the Amsterdam route is concerning. The NCL-AMS route had a 9% increase in passenger numbers in Sep 2011
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 18th Oct 2011 at 13:43. Reason: Add comparison with Newcastle
DTV September Figures and a another rant
September -42% Well nothing really that we didnt expect?
This cant go on at this level for much longer?
As ive said many times Peel/Vas whatever, appear to be the proverbial Nero...fiddling while DTV descends into history.
Please someone come on and prove me wrong?
to add fuel...DTV in the past years was always an excellent diversion airport.Always available while Newc had the sea fret and leeds sat in the clouds...however not now..the infrastucture has completely gone(as noted in earlier posts)
ie has anyone seen that ridiculous notam about the fire cover supplied?
talk about putting obsticles in the path...they get rid of firemen and then say the airport isnt available for any extra movements or diversions?
my easy jet mate said they wanted to divert in yesterday from a wild newcatle but couldnt because of no fire cover??? what is that all about??? do they want extra business or not??
I really despair !!
This cant go on at this level for much longer?
As ive said many times Peel/Vas whatever, appear to be the proverbial Nero...fiddling while DTV descends into history.
Please someone come on and prove me wrong?
to add fuel...DTV in the past years was always an excellent diversion airport.Always available while Newc had the sea fret and leeds sat in the clouds...however not now..the infrastucture has completely gone(as noted in earlier posts)
ie has anyone seen that ridiculous notam about the fire cover supplied?
talk about putting obsticles in the path...they get rid of firemen and then say the airport isnt available for any extra movements or diversions?
my easy jet mate said they wanted to divert in yesterday from a wild newcatle but couldnt because of no fire cover??? what is that all about??? do they want extra business or not??
I really despair !!
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DTV
Just close the place down it as useful as a Chocolate Poker
Sell the land and make Houses
DTV Dont want business its obvious
Why doesnt someone But Tees Side // Blackpool // Robin Hood // Coventry //Prestwick and convert all to wind farms
lets face it the airports will never make money and should all face reallity and close in the present economy
sorry to see em all go but come on you all know its true
Sell the land and make Houses
DTV Dont want business its obvious
Why doesnt someone But Tees Side // Blackpool // Robin Hood // Coventry //Prestwick and convert all to wind farms
lets face it the airports will never make money and should all face reallity and close in the present economy
sorry to see em all go but come on you all know its true
Last edited by learjet50; 19th Oct 2011 at 23:06. Reason: spellling
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Turn your buckets and spades into spanners and software
These sites will never make money as airports because there's not enough traffic to support so many airports in a small country. Particularly in the North, where only MAN can really cut it as a major airport, with a supporting role for LPL, LBA and NCL.
But that doesn't mean the other sites can't be successful and make money. Just not as airPORTS. MME, BLK, DCS, HUY etc should be trawling Europe and perhaps further afield for companies engaged in aviation-related industries, and in need of an airfield location. These sort of uses are likely to produce more skilled jobs and to trickle more cash through the regional economy than will low-cost flights taking locals away for stag weekends.
But that doesn't mean the other sites can't be successful and make money. Just not as airPORTS. MME, BLK, DCS, HUY etc should be trawling Europe and perhaps further afield for companies engaged in aviation-related industries, and in need of an airfield location. These sort of uses are likely to produce more skilled jobs and to trickle more cash through the regional economy than will low-cost flights taking locals away for stag weekends.
"KLM shows support for the region's airports"
From the Northern Echo:
AIRLINE KLM last night pledged its support for Durham Tees Valley but revealed it has no plans to bring more flights to the embattled airport.
Backing from Durham Tees Valley's most important client was a positive sign for recently-appointed airport director Steve Gill who nevertheless had hoped to persuade KLM to increase its three daily services to Amsterdam, which he has called "the absolute jewel in our crown."
Instead, Henri Hourcade, Air France KLM General Manager was in the region to announce an increase in services from Newcastle International to the Dutch and French capitals this winter in response to rising passenger numbers.
"The difference between the two airports in the North-East can be summed up at the moment as Newcastle is about development and Durham Tees Valley is about stability," said Mr Hourcade as he unveiled a 25 per cent increase in capacity from Tyneside to Paris and a 10 per cent rise to Amsterdam following the introduction of new flights and aircraft.
"Newcastle will continue to have the bigger slice of the cake as it is the major urban centre in the North-East. This is a huge step for us and a sign of the optimism we have in the region," he added.
Mr Hourcade denied the move could attract business away from Durham Tees Valley which has seen its passenger numbers fall from 650,000 in 2008 to about 200,000 this year.
"We have a very loyal clientele there and I am confident they will continue to use their local airport," he said. Asked if he thought that Durham Tees Valley had a long-term future, Mr Hourcade replied: "I think so. I dont see passengers fleeing it as a point of departure. The concerns you hear are more about the economic stability of the airport itself. We do not wish to change the landscape there at all. There is no question that there is demand and we will continue to meet that demand.
"We follow the customer. If there was any sign of an opportunity to develop our services from Durham Tees Valley then we would react to that immediately, as we have done at Newcastle. It is the strategy of Air France KLM to feed the major hubs from regional airports.
Backing from Durham Tees Valley's most important client was a positive sign for recently-appointed airport director Steve Gill who nevertheless had hoped to persuade KLM to increase its three daily services to Amsterdam, which he has called "the absolute jewel in our crown."
Instead, Henri Hourcade, Air France KLM General Manager was in the region to announce an increase in services from Newcastle International to the Dutch and French capitals this winter in response to rising passenger numbers.
"The difference between the two airports in the North-East can be summed up at the moment as Newcastle is about development and Durham Tees Valley is about stability," said Mr Hourcade as he unveiled a 25 per cent increase in capacity from Tyneside to Paris and a 10 per cent rise to Amsterdam following the introduction of new flights and aircraft.
"Newcastle will continue to have the bigger slice of the cake as it is the major urban centre in the North-East. This is a huge step for us and a sign of the optimism we have in the region," he added.
Mr Hourcade denied the move could attract business away from Durham Tees Valley which has seen its passenger numbers fall from 650,000 in 2008 to about 200,000 this year.
"We have a very loyal clientele there and I am confident they will continue to use their local airport," he said. Asked if he thought that Durham Tees Valley had a long-term future, Mr Hourcade replied: "I think so. I dont see passengers fleeing it as a point of departure. The concerns you hear are more about the economic stability of the airport itself. We do not wish to change the landscape there at all. There is no question that there is demand and we will continue to meet that demand.
"We follow the customer. If there was any sign of an opportunity to develop our services from Durham Tees Valley then we would react to that immediately, as we have done at Newcastle. It is the strategy of Air France KLM to feed the major hubs from regional airports.
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Re KLM
Their manner of their response must be difficult for management at DTV to take.
They have actually laid it out fairly clearly :-
Someone is going to have to produce something to break a rather incestuous circle, that is creating this downward spiral in the airports finances.
So where to now ?
Their manner of their response must be difficult for management at DTV to take.
They have actually laid it out fairly clearly :-
"We follow the customer. If there was any sign of an opportunity to develop our services from Durham Tees Valley then we would react to that immediately..."
So where to now ?
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I don't think there has been much imagination or a business plan, and this compounds the issues. The focus has been on limiting losses rather than looking at alternatives to increase movements and related aviation activities. The result is a barely functioning facility that cant cope with diversions or anything else that isn't planned weeks in advance.
Management can't see beyond the car park and the terminal for business opportunities. The runway, aprons, hangar are all options to be fully exploited. GA is unwelcomed, base training attracts eye watering charges even for loyal based operators, fuel costs are high so operators tanker where possible.
It is not a welcoming place for passengers or operators and the result is a prime example: The law of diminishing returns..
Management can't see beyond the car park and the terminal for business opportunities. The runway, aprons, hangar are all options to be fully exploited. GA is unwelcomed, base training attracts eye watering charges even for loyal based operators, fuel costs are high so operators tanker where possible.
It is not a welcoming place for passengers or operators and the result is a prime example: The law of diminishing returns..
Taxi Driver, they are doing it on purpose. Peel want to close the airport so they can use the land. I really feel for the good people who work there and depend on the airport for their livelehood. The only thing keeping the airport open is Chobham and their military contracts. Sad days.
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I'm not so sure the land is either that useful or valuable? The population in the area is in decline, as is the employment and industry of the area, there are numerous brown field sites in line for redevelopment close by. Close an airport and the chance of attracting new investment in a given area declines further.
Is there really such a shortage of housing and business parks in Tees Valley?
Any truth that peel excluded portions of land from the deal with the Vancouver people?
Is there really such a shortage of housing and business parks in Tees Valley?
Any truth that peel excluded portions of land from the deal with the Vancouver people?