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UK Chancellor makes moves to kill off the rest aviation industry

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UK Chancellor makes moves to kill off the rest aviation industry

Old 24th Nov 2008, 16:23
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UK Chancellor makes moves to kill off the rest aviation industry

Some may have missed it, however a new tax called the Airline Passenger Duty has been expanded in the pre budget report today.


Starting at 11 for Y class aircraft on short haul, basically charter airlines (10% increase from current charge), you also now have a new band for anything "higher" than the lowest class travel. So Economy + club world, Business and first watch out. as yours starts at 22.

The kicker comes in when you go more than 2000 miles from London.
2001-4000 Band B 45 / 90
4001 - 6000 Band C 50 / 100
6000 + Band D 55 / 110

So your majority of business travellers, on medium and long haul, will get stung for the higher rate each time

it's funny where it states that the company i.e. airline is not legally obliged to "pass on" the duty charge. But of course, is any company is going to absorb this duty per passenger!! suvery says?? X

private and biz jets don't escape either. If your aircraft has 1 class config and provides a pitch greater than 40" then you have to pay the "standard" (read higher) rate.

Just to top it off, there is not even an attempt to drisguise this as a GREEN TAX. it's just stated as a plain and simple good old TAX!!

With things the way they are, who is going to be happy about rising ticket prices?? Annual holiday family, no, Biz traveller, no, regular commuter, eerrm NO. anyone left??
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 16:43
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So if you want to go long haul take a loco to anywhere outside the UK and hop off from there then?

I wonder what the Tories are proposing then?
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 16:48
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Originally Posted by fireflybob View Post
So if you want to go long haul take a loco to anywhere outside the UK and hop off from there then?

I wonder what the Tories are proposing then?
Cost you more than the tax.
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 16:52
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Cost you more than the tax.
Avitor, yes possibly.

But what with airport staff being forced to get ID cards and these punitive aviation taxes I will certainly NOT be voting for this government at the next election!
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 16:53
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You should be grateful.

All that munny is helping to clean up the planet.

I don't think.

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Old 24th Nov 2008, 17:01
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The big news on this is that the per flight tax proposal has been dropped, so there will be no per flight tax on freight services.
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 17:01
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Given that premise (I am not saying it isn't a solution) then there will be increased traffic with EZY, Ryan, KLM C.H.and BMI baby (becuase let face it, BA have abandoned all bu the South East). into AMS or CDG, on which, I add are already busy flights. just to go to Dubai or New York for example. not to mention restriction on Cabin and Hold baggage, which when on long term business is not easy if not impossible.

I am sure that Mr Virgin, Mr BA and Mr Emirates / Etihad et al would be happy about that one. To me it just seems like another kick in the nuts for an already struggling industry in the UK.

Is that really what we wnat to see happen,. the aviation version of the booze cruise just to get away on business / holiday and have the UK airports become nothing more that LoCo and charter hubs? a feeder satelite to the real airport in mainland europe.

A bit dramatic I admit, but I just think it's taking the pi$$
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 17:09
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No worse than the fuel surcharges charged by airlines to increase profits.
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 17:14
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yeah, but that's just down to unfortunate hedging. This is just a straight payment direct to Mr Darling's coffers.

You can gurantee it won;t be used for research into more efficient engines and lighter composites
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 17:17
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"Green" labels affixed to new taxes really boil my p**s.

How can stinging the public for yet more money do anything for the state of the planet? And yet if you dare to complain about a "Green Tax" then you're immediately labelled an Eco-Nazi who probably eats baby Pandas for breakfast.

Look at a map of the World. Look at what percentage of it is the UK. Why should we carry the can and endlessly shell out in a frenzy of self-flagellation at the altar of the Guardian-reading greenies?

I would have a lot more faith in "Green" issues if India and the developing world hopped on the bandwagon too. Until then I'll keep my "Cynical Old Git" title and wear it with pride.

My company encourages us to share cars, for example. And to not leave our monitors switched on when away from our desks. All in the interests of the health of the planet apparently.

So, I may be sending a couple of pilots off to burn 12 Tons of Jet A1, but hey - at least I saved some CO2 on the way in to the office, eh?
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 17:21
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Fly low cost or train to AMS ,FRA CDG etc and then get a non British carrier onwards for your long haul leg. Nice to see the British government supporting all the competition. Then again is Europe to follow suit ?
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 17:29
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Quite possiblyif it turns out to be profitable. But then who has the money to fly at the moment anyway.

Besides, doesn't really matter. there's only going to be 4 airlines left in europe soon anyway!! and then we're all screwed
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 18:18
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I just paid in excess of $500 for "taxes" per round trip flight from NY to London over and above the ticket price; another $200 on top of that is just ******* nuts.

My last trip the "ticket" cost $450 round trip; when I gave my credit card details the bill was for $1055.

What a way to stimulate the economy...
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 18:21
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I love the animosity against 'fuel surcharging'! At least it's up front and you are aware of what you are paying for unlike some of the more interesting surcharges claimed by some companies. Per passenger credit card surcharge even if they are all paid for on one card anyone?

Once again the Brown Darling has seen fit to totally screw over the aviation industry in the pursuit of more taxable income.

What about passenger duty tax I wonder? Will it no go, superseded by this new cash generator? The taxes to fly out of Spain, Italy, Germany etc are all a pittance compared to flying out of the UK.

Last one out switch off the lights for the unemployed please.
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 18:27
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I understand this solves the issue of LHR capacity.

(Tin hat on!)

Rwy in Sight
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 18:38
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My two Greece holidays are off this year, I am not exposing myself to such an abysmal Euro exchange rate.
I have been going for the last ten years, I'll get over it.

I knew, when the new labour shower got a second term, leave alone a third, this country was finished. You cannot elevate the have nots to the same status as hard workers and not suffer for it.
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 18:39
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Well, at least it makes it explicit - ALL of the UK is screwed.

My predictions: FTSE = 3000 or less, Property = off from historic highs by up to 60%, unemployment above four million, the Pound at 85 Euro cents and USD $1.20 and rioting in the streets as inflation from import costs lets rip and salaries, benefits and incomes stagnate before declining under the weight of massive tax hikes. Another UK high street bank fails and most of the retail banking industry is de-facto nationalised (even more than now).

Airlines = BMI Baby, Jet2, and perhaps Flybe all gone in 2 years. Air Southwest, Monarch, and Loganair possibly gone as well. Virgin Atlantic merged with BMI into Lufthansa as a kind of "son of BMI" with vast capacity reductions and redundancies. 2000+ UK pilots seek work. There isnt any, nor will there be for years, if ever. New "Green Taxes" kill off UK aviation for ever.

Long-term the UK is a basket case with no oil, no skill base, no high value manufacturing, and no hope. Look for the seventies brain drain to restart with, this time, no reversal and no renaissance for perhaps decades.

10,000 of government debt per household in a nation with a per capita income of circa 20,000 on average says it all. We are doomed, doomed I say. And I mean it. What a tragedy. Oh, and Noo Labour, (not so different to Old Labour to my mind), HATES aviation so you can forget and help there, they'll tax it to death and beyond the grave - radio spectrum pricing for aviation anybody!!? Goodbye GA, Goodbye UK airline industry, Goodbye UK inward trade and investment, Hello Island Gulag run by demented former communists, (Gordon B, Alastair D), with about as much idea of economics as I have of plastic surgery.

In conclusion, anyone else see that article about so-called "cabinet enforcer" Liam Bryne MP, who gave his civil servants a 100 page memo entitled "Working with Liam Byrne" in which the pompous, tax-payer remunerated tw*t said he needed a "cappucino on his desk for 0830, hot soup at 12.30 and en expresso at 3 PM", along with a lengthy discourse about how to set out his paperwork? What an Arse. He also claimed the highest expenses of any MP, at over 178,000 I believe. How many night sectors does that take to pay?

Last edited by ShortfinalFred; 24th Nov 2008 at 19:01.
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 19:34
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oh dear

It does appear the same old lunatics have started running the show again... some politicians really have no grasp of history.. or indeed econmics. BTW no mention of all the PFI projects that have ramped payment terms 2010 - 2025 .... future generations were morgaged by this lot before the current fiasco even started. More taxes boys and girls more taxes.... looks like were becoming the next Belgium!
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 20:02
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Calm down, calm down...

As I understand it, since February 2007, Air Passenger Duty has been:

Europe economy = 10 pounds - will go up by 1 pound
Europe higher class = 20 pounds - will go up by 2 pounds
Non-Europe economy = 40 pounds
Non-Europe higher class = 80 pounds

Europe = area covered by Single European Sky - not just the EU

The Europe economy charge is going up by 1 pound from 2009, and Europe higher class by 2 pounds from 2009. This is almost exactly the same as inflation. Tax on booze and fags goes up with inflation most years - why should APD be exempt ?

Beyond Europe, just tracking inflation the charge should go up by 4 pounds / 8 pounds respectively.

If travelling 2001-4000 miles, it goes up by 5 pounds (economy) and 10 pounds (business).
If travelling 4001-6000 miles it goes up by 10 pounds (economy) and 20 pounds (business)

Very few people make numerous long-haul trips out of their own post-tax income each year. Having to spend an extra pound on your weekend trip to Italy is not a lot to ask.

Dons flak jacket and runs for cover....
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 20:46
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When the idiots realise that global warming is coming to an end and we are on the threshold of a cold period what will they dream up to justify their so called "green" taxes?

Last edited by brakedwell; 24th Nov 2008 at 20:57.
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