NEWCASTLE - 8
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People can't speculate? Discuss what they'd like because miserable gits like you would rather sit and be a keyboard warrior with smarmy put downs?
So what if its pie in the sky stuff? At least its encouraging debate and exposing questions about how the airport is going about things which as locals, people have a literal vested tax paying interest in
On a side note, this Jewish community, I assume they use connections at the moment for things like Passover holidays etc? Must be someone getting all their business
So what if its pie in the sky stuff? At least its encouraging debate and exposing questions about how the airport is going about things which as locals, people have a literal vested tax paying interest in
On a side note, this Jewish community, I assume they use connections at the moment for things like Passover holidays etc? Must be someone getting all their business
Last edited by JKKne; 16th May 2013 at 21:04.
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CaptainAdams : No need for the tone you adopt here. I suggest you may wish to edit your derogatory comments and allow views on routes to be discussed on their prospective merits.
I doubt, before the launch of Emirates service to Dubai, - many, if any! would have taken speculation on such service seriously and may have made similar commentary to your tone on EL AL to Israel or USA flights.
Personally I doubt a service will commence to Israel, but due to the extensive security at airports demanded by the Israeli govt. and undercover armed security personnel on all of their flights due to the increased risks.
New York should and probably will happen - I believe the obstacle is not viability in terms of pax or freight, but the routes via all accessible hubs : (LHR,CDG,AMS,FRA,etc...) are dominated by codeshare partners of legacy US airlines feeding from BA,AF,KLM,LH, etc... being members of Oneworld, Star, Skyteam etc...
I doubt, before the launch of Emirates service to Dubai, - many, if any! would have taken speculation on such service seriously and may have made similar commentary to your tone on EL AL to Israel or USA flights.
Personally I doubt a service will commence to Israel, but due to the extensive security at airports demanded by the Israeli govt. and undercover armed security personnel on all of their flights due to the increased risks.
New York should and probably will happen - I believe the obstacle is not viability in terms of pax or freight, but the routes via all accessible hubs : (LHR,CDG,AMS,FRA,etc...) are dominated by codeshare partners of legacy US airlines feeding from BA,AF,KLM,LH, etc... being members of Oneworld, Star, Skyteam etc...
Last edited by VentureGo; 16th May 2013 at 21:22.
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Captainadams... Looks like u have upset a lot of people!!
I bet 5 years ago you were one of the many people that said the daily Dubai would never work??
As it has been stated many times before on here yes it may not happen tomorrow or next week but one day Newcastle will gain the routes that it needs..
New York will happen its just the right airline at the right time..
I believe that if American or united did start the route summer only next year say 5x weekly I think they would be shocked at the amount of pax willing to use it... However as said which airline is will to take that gamble?? None at the minute and yes it will hit other hubs mainly KLM?
Only time will tell.....
To the rest of you let's start a new rumour??
I'm going to say we need a link to Russia??
I bet 5 years ago you were one of the many people that said the daily Dubai would never work??
As it has been stated many times before on here yes it may not happen tomorrow or next week but one day Newcastle will gain the routes that it needs..
New York will happen its just the right airline at the right time..
I believe that if American or united did start the route summer only next year say 5x weekly I think they would be shocked at the amount of pax willing to use it... However as said which airline is will to take that gamble?? None at the minute and yes it will hit other hubs mainly KLM?
Only time will tell.....
To the rest of you let's start a new rumour??
I'm going to say we need a link to Russia??
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New York will happen its just the right airline at the right time..
I believe that if American or united did start the route summer only next year say 5x weekly
I believe that if American or united did start the route summer only next year say 5x weekly
American are withdrawing the transatalantic B757 operation completely are they're not going to start NCL with a B767-300ER. Continental started the whole regional game with the B757 in the UK but they're now merged with the airline that had one UK destination in the last 19 years. I can't think of another route either carrier serves less than daily in summer across the pond. Why should it start? The UK is already up to it's ears in loss making regional airports chasing lower and lower yields.
Emirates are miracle workers but there's a finite market and they did well at GLA by stealing market share from BA, KL and BD. That was already a bigger pond to fish in and GLA was achieving much higher load factors than NCL is before it got a second gig. The best example is BHX which has ground to a halt at 2 x B77Ws from EK and a single UA B757. The market is right sizing after a growth bubble which outside the major airports is unsustainable.
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It's interesting to see that many people share my view, Newcastle is and forever will be ( In my eyes ) a 3 - 4 Million Pax airport, Solely because of the surrounding dromes
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I don't want to cause more argument, but a few points.
1. EK themselves have said they want 2 daily to NCL if it expands more this year.
2. They must see something as they proved at the end of last year while a couple of 77W's were in for maintenence that they have spare 77L's available to operate the route if needs be, yet they still use the 77W.
3. EK is (reportedly) carrying an average of 250 pax per flight, 500 per day and Business is reportedly selling well. I'll try and get the load info in August when I next travel on them
Also regarding El Al I can see the extra security being a problem and to answer someone's query about religious festivals. I would assume that due to them being orthodox they will drive to LTN/LHR and take the daily (except Saturday) 763/772 from LTN or 744 from LHR. Bearing in mind that Gateshead also has the largest Talmudical College in Europe...
Finally, from previous experience, if TOM were to start NCL-SXM it would likely be significantly more expensive than flying AF/KL or BA/AA etc. And the same case for the Maldives, looking in previous years it had been approximately £2800 for 3 adults return on Emirates from NCL and about £6000 for 3 adults return from LGW.
Although I want to see NCL do well, I think they need to excercise caution, as said before, small yearly increases is good.
1. EK themselves have said they want 2 daily to NCL if it expands more this year.
2. They must see something as they proved at the end of last year while a couple of 77W's were in for maintenence that they have spare 77L's available to operate the route if needs be, yet they still use the 77W.
3. EK is (reportedly) carrying an average of 250 pax per flight, 500 per day and Business is reportedly selling well. I'll try and get the load info in August when I next travel on them
Also regarding El Al I can see the extra security being a problem and to answer someone's query about religious festivals. I would assume that due to them being orthodox they will drive to LTN/LHR and take the daily (except Saturday) 763/772 from LTN or 744 from LHR. Bearing in mind that Gateshead also has the largest Talmudical College in Europe...
Finally, from previous experience, if TOM were to start NCL-SXM it would likely be significantly more expensive than flying AF/KL or BA/AA etc. And the same case for the Maldives, looking in previous years it had been approximately £2800 for 3 adults return on Emirates from NCL and about £6000 for 3 adults return from LGW.
Although I want to see NCL do well, I think they need to excercise caution, as said before, small yearly increases is good.
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I'm all for sensible debate without any cheap digs, but I have to agree with captain_adams...
Some of the routes mentioned are wish lists of individuals and not serious money making opportunities for for an airline. Don't forget the pax numbers are reducing and as someone has already pointed out the North East has the highest unemployment in the country.
If you think of the more sensible suggestions or the routes we've had and couldn't sustain...
Milan, Madrid, Berlin, Brussels, Hamburg and Toronto - what chance have the others got.
Some of the routes mentioned are wish lists of individuals and not serious money making opportunities for for an airline. Don't forget the pax numbers are reducing and as someone has already pointed out the North East has the highest unemployment in the country.
If you think of the more sensible suggestions or the routes we've had and couldn't sustain...
Milan, Madrid, Berlin, Brussels, Hamburg and Toronto - what chance have the others got.
Last edited by CentreFix25; 17th May 2013 at 07:51.
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Selected April stats:
Copenhagen: 1424
Paris CDG|: 11811 -26%
Dusseldorf: 2805 -21%
Dublin 11640 -15%
Amsterdam 30420 +29%
Stavanger 2144 +1%
Dubai 16596 +29% average load of 64.6% based on a 428 seater every day (works out at an averag load of 276 pax per flight - i.e. if the A332 was still operating, just under 100% loads)
Gatwick 6607 -6%
Heathrow 39898 -2%
Overall: 324492 during the month, an increase of 3.1%. Last 12 months 4.36m, an increase of 0.7%
Copenhagen: 1424
Paris CDG|: 11811 -26%
Dusseldorf: 2805 -21%
Dublin 11640 -15%
Amsterdam 30420 +29%
Stavanger 2144 +1%
Dubai 16596 +29% average load of 64.6% based on a 428 seater every day (works out at an averag load of 276 pax per flight - i.e. if the A332 was still operating, just under 100% loads)
Gatwick 6607 -6%
Heathrow 39898 -2%
Overall: 324492 during the month, an increase of 3.1%. Last 12 months 4.36m, an increase of 0.7%
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EK also have a lot of new aircraft to keep busy - and they are in some ways a LCA for international - I can see them going to 2 flights a day if only for the connecting traffic - quite a few people go Newcastle - South Africa via Dubai now - it's longer but a lot cheaper than going via LHR
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I think the issue in this forum as the moment is people thinking they are experts. I work in the airport business, and a lot of what's getting mentioned on here is untrue.
1). Why oh why are people so obsessed with Emirates? Yes it's our only scheduled long haul flight, but do we constantly have to blow smoke up their behind. It's not a glittering success story, and not a complete failure, but it's hardly consistent. Many a time have I seen NCL loadsheets of an EK 777 with LESS than 100 people on board. That's poor. Also, please READ articles. EK have expressed interest in a 2nd daily PROVIDING LFs etc increase. So people saying 'they will' and 'they are' are adding fuel to the fire.
2). USA flights - since when were these a case of 'when not if'. AA cancelled before start. CO scrapped BRS etc. DLs European hub is AMS, with strong links to NCL. They fill almost all flights daily, so why (using DL as an example here) would a US airline launch flights to NCL which would never regularly be full, when they can link to Hubs, fill planes and make ££, which is all airlines care about.
3) EL AL Etc, no chance.
Come on guys, lets be realistic when it comes to NCL.
1). Why oh why are people so obsessed with Emirates? Yes it's our only scheduled long haul flight, but do we constantly have to blow smoke up their behind. It's not a glittering success story, and not a complete failure, but it's hardly consistent. Many a time have I seen NCL loadsheets of an EK 777 with LESS than 100 people on board. That's poor. Also, please READ articles. EK have expressed interest in a 2nd daily PROVIDING LFs etc increase. So people saying 'they will' and 'they are' are adding fuel to the fire.
2). USA flights - since when were these a case of 'when not if'. AA cancelled before start. CO scrapped BRS etc. DLs European hub is AMS, with strong links to NCL. They fill almost all flights daily, so why (using DL as an example here) would a US airline launch flights to NCL which would never regularly be full, when they can link to Hubs, fill planes and make ££, which is all airlines care about.
3) EL AL Etc, no chance.
Come on guys, lets be realistic when it comes to NCL.
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Hi all!
Does anyone know why Ryanair do not have a base in NCL, or if there are any plans for one in the future? Surely it would be profitable even with Jet2 and a diminishing Easy Jet presence.
Does anyone know why Ryanair do not have a base in NCL, or if there are any plans for one in the future? Surely it would be profitable even with Jet2 and a diminishing Easy Jet presence.
Why is it sure to be profitable? RYR have tried a number of routes through NCL and withdrawn, so I think if they thought they could make money here, or more precisely, more money than another base, they would be doing (there, that should get a NCL base by the end of the year...
).
).
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I think the issue in this forum as the moment is people thinking they are experts. I work in the airport business, and a lot of what's getting mentioned on here is untrue.
1). Why oh why are people so obsessed with Emirates? Yes it's our only scheduled long haul flight, but do we constantly have to blow smoke up their behind. It's not a glittering success story, and not a complete failure, but it's hardly consistent. Many a time have I seen NCL loadsheets of an EK 777 with LESS than 100 people on board. That's poor. Also, please READ articles. EK have expressed interest in a 2nd daily PROVIDING LFs etc increase. So people saying 'they will' and 'they are' are adding fuel to the fire.
2). USA flights - since when were these a case of 'when not if'. AA cancelled before start. CO scrapped BRS etc. DLs European hub is AMS, with strong links to NCL. They fill almost all flights daily, so why (using DL as an example here) would a US airline launch flights to NCL which would never regularly be full, when they can link to Hubs, fill planes and make ££, which is all airlines care about.
3) EL AL Etc, no chance.
Come on guys, lets be realistic when it comes to NCL.
1). Why oh why are people so obsessed with Emirates? Yes it's our only scheduled long haul flight, but do we constantly have to blow smoke up their behind. It's not a glittering success story, and not a complete failure, but it's hardly consistent. Many a time have I seen NCL loadsheets of an EK 777 with LESS than 100 people on board. That's poor. Also, please READ articles. EK have expressed interest in a 2nd daily PROVIDING LFs etc increase. So people saying 'they will' and 'they are' are adding fuel to the fire.
2). USA flights - since when were these a case of 'when not if'. AA cancelled before start. CO scrapped BRS etc. DLs European hub is AMS, with strong links to NCL. They fill almost all flights daily, so why (using DL as an example here) would a US airline launch flights to NCL which would never regularly be full, when they can link to Hubs, fill planes and make ££, which is all airlines care about.
3) EL AL Etc, no chance.
Come on guys, lets be realistic when it comes to NCL.
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Emirates
Centrefix25
We all know that they arent going to fill every seat daily on the flight.
We know that some days during the week there is under 200 pax onboard but some days there is over 400....
This shows that they need the bigger aircraft for certain days of the week.
Emirates are aware that some days they could use the smaller aircraft but for operational reasons its easier to just use the one type.
What EK are doing is maximising the route making sure they can offer the seats as per demand to ensure pax can travel through there hub and not LHR or AMS!!!!!
What EK are stating that is if pax figures contiune to rise and last month shows 26% year on year than what they are meaning is that some days will be full and some pax could if another flight isnt on sale start to travel via AMS or LHR....
You have stated that you get to see the load sheets??
Can you not tell us by spilt what days or how many days during april
there was over 300 pax onboard i.e
10 days - 100-150pax per flight
10 days- 150-300pax per flight
10 days over 400 per flight
??????
Also if the aircraft goes out full of pax then is any of the cargo off loaded until the next day??
as for the report on airline routes it still states they are after a link to the East and they had a better case for the route than dubai?????
We all know that they arent going to fill every seat daily on the flight.
We know that some days during the week there is under 200 pax onboard but some days there is over 400....
This shows that they need the bigger aircraft for certain days of the week.
Emirates are aware that some days they could use the smaller aircraft but for operational reasons its easier to just use the one type.
What EK are doing is maximising the route making sure they can offer the seats as per demand to ensure pax can travel through there hub and not LHR or AMS!!!!!
What EK are stating that is if pax figures contiune to rise and last month shows 26% year on year than what they are meaning is that some days will be full and some pax could if another flight isnt on sale start to travel via AMS or LHR....
You have stated that you get to see the load sheets??
Can you not tell us by spilt what days or how many days during april
there was over 300 pax onboard i.e
10 days - 100-150pax per flight
10 days- 150-300pax per flight
10 days over 400 per flight
??????
Also if the aircraft goes out full of pax then is any of the cargo off loaded until the next day??
as for the report on airline routes it still states they are after a link to the East and they had a better case for the route than dubai?????
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EL AL
Little chance of seeing EL AL at NCL I think. They flew TLV-MAN for many years and then dropped it. Picked up by Jet 2 and lately by EZY. Manchester has a large Jewish community, both Orthodox and otherwise. Plenty of big hats and ringlets to be seen checking in at Terminal 1, and so whilst some might prefer to fly El Al, plenty are happy to use EZY/Jet 2.
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It would seem that plenty more people now like using easyjet and not sure much Jet2 on the MAN-TLV route. Hence the reason Jet2 are dropping there service at the end of the summer season....
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What EK are doing is maximising the route making sure they can offer the seats as per demand to ensure pax can travel through there hub and not LHR or AMS!!!!!
EK.... the only reason that this keeps on cropping up is that there is little else to talk about, & certainly even less from other airlines / routes that is positive.
How many times have those that know have explained that EK is not only about Pax no's but also about freight. You must also note that to an extent EK are able to control pax demand and thus LF's by slick marketing / price control.
All comments on this thread re EK are simply each posters partially (at best!) opinion which are at times mixed up with the "Reggies" fantasies.
Guys it has all been said, you got your upgrade to 777 be happy.
You would be far better to discuss EZY, I had it on good authority that things were to improve, though there now seems to have been a major swing, as the base simply is not proving to be as profitable as they would wish & as ever they see it simply as a "bucket & spade" base with few exceptions. If Jet 2, the modern day "Dan Air" continue to make inroads into their market with their near time expired historic fleet of c. 20 - 30 year old "pigs" then I fear for the future of the EZY NCL base.
Last edited by skyman771; 17th May 2013 at 23:32.