MANCHESTER - 7
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PR to MAN that would be wishful thinking, PR have no flights to Europe and the firsts ports of call would be London and Rome. However MNL has a similar problem to Manchester with a massive cheap fares uplift by Eithad, Gulf and Emirates from Manila with onward connections from the Gulf to Europe. This has taken away direct European carriers such as BA and LH who pulled out years ago. Only KLM do the big hop with a 14 hour B777 flight. However unlike Manchester traffic is growing fast, now 26m (up 11% in 2009) and all from mainly a single runway operation (yes I know there is a crosswind)!.
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Meanwhile i understand Top Gear might be making a bid to take over runway 2 at Manchester for filming on
I'm not sure about PR, but Royal Brunei have rights into MAN, via Bangkok? Speculation otherwise completely futile!
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New route from S.E.Asia
Sounds like Royal Brunei who have publicly revealed their wish to serve MAN. The UK-Brunei ASA was recently updated. Presumably this would be operated to connect with their Australian services. They may operate via BKK but with current equipment would need an intermediate stop in the Gulf.
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Jongeman
Couple of easy answers losing BA/BMI Stateside and Ryanair has given the biggest
hits accounting for a very large percentage drop as you say and the railways have taken a lot but this does now seem to have bottomed out
The US situation should start to sort it`s self out this summer with extra flights coming on line, however the Ryanair flights won`t ease until Sept/Oct when Ryanair
chucked the dummy out of the pram last year.
There is quite a lot of positive things happening many perhaps not very exciting but
never the less all important. New domestic services show that things are improving
as do re-instatement of services ie CSA and Air Baltic
Birmingham has seen to have a much smaller drop in numbers, however Ryanair
and bmiBaby are both dropping services and they are not picking new ones up either so this year will not be good for them
I don`t have the figures to hand but Liverpool is suffering a down turn at present
which I think is quite large.
Lets all hope that the freight continues to improve like it has in last 3 or 4 months
and as Suseman said a while back this is usually a barometer of how the overall
trend is going
Ian B
Couple of easy answers losing BA/BMI Stateside and Ryanair has given the biggest
hits accounting for a very large percentage drop as you say and the railways have taken a lot but this does now seem to have bottomed out
The US situation should start to sort it`s self out this summer with extra flights coming on line, however the Ryanair flights won`t ease until Sept/Oct when Ryanair
chucked the dummy out of the pram last year.
There is quite a lot of positive things happening many perhaps not very exciting but
never the less all important. New domestic services show that things are improving
as do re-instatement of services ie CSA and Air Baltic
Birmingham has seen to have a much smaller drop in numbers, however Ryanair
and bmiBaby are both dropping services and they are not picking new ones up either so this year will not be good for them
I don`t have the figures to hand but Liverpool is suffering a down turn at present
which I think is quite large.
Lets all hope that the freight continues to improve like it has in last 3 or 4 months
and as Suseman said a while back this is usually a barometer of how the overall
trend is going
Ian B
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this from another board:
"The CAA has released provisional passenger figures for January 2010 which show that 322,048 passengers passed through Liverpool an increase of 7.9% over January 2009 which is encouraging. However, the figures were still below the January 2008 & 2007 figures by about 40,000 passengers.
Liverpool was the ONLY major airport in the UK to show an increase in passenger figures in January 2010. The only other airports to show increases for January 2009 were Dundee, Manston and Tresco in the Scilly Isles.
Interestingly Manchester's passenger fgures for January 2010 are down 14% on January 2009 levels, with a moving annual total of 18.4 million passengers, a far cry from the days when tha MAT was 22 Million."
OK, just one month but thats a big gap from 14% down to 8% up. MAN needs a new way forward - lets hope the change of management does the trick. MAN does feel like a long term structural decline made worst by the recession
"The CAA has released provisional passenger figures for January 2010 which show that 322,048 passengers passed through Liverpool an increase of 7.9% over January 2009 which is encouraging. However, the figures were still below the January 2008 & 2007 figures by about 40,000 passengers.
Liverpool was the ONLY major airport in the UK to show an increase in passenger figures in January 2010. The only other airports to show increases for January 2009 were Dundee, Manston and Tresco in the Scilly Isles.
Interestingly Manchester's passenger fgures for January 2010 are down 14% on January 2009 levels, with a moving annual total of 18.4 million passengers, a far cry from the days when tha MAT was 22 Million."
OK, just one month but thats a big gap from 14% down to 8% up. MAN needs a new way forward - lets hope the change of management does the trick. MAN does feel like a long term structural decline made worst by the recession
Last edited by mybrico; 6th Mar 2010 at 12:39. Reason: additional thought
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I don`t have the figures to hand but Liverpool is suffering a down turn at present which I think is quite large.
October stats were -2% and the three months since have recorded +8%, +6% and +7.8%.
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Point taken re LPL. There's also LH to Stuttgart and I also noticed that WW are continuing with 1 daily to AMS through to October although I could have sworn this was one of their scrapped routes.
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don't forget the impact of the weather in January which led to cancelled services - passengers may not have been rebooked onto those MAN services that did run. Might not have amounted to much, but still it wouldn't help with the stats.
If we summarise what's happening this summer:
PIA an extra service to Islambad at the expense of LBA
CSA reintroduce Prague 6 weekly
easyJet new services to Sharm el Sheik, Zurich nad Mahon
Air Baltic to Vilnius and Riga
American to JFK daily
DL back on JFK daily
Flybe new Bournemouth service (and the French regional routes reintroduced)
Aer Arann reintroduce 4 weekly to Kerry, 6 weekly (or is it daily?) to Londonderry
Etihad go to 77W from June
Emirates expected to introduce A380 from sept
Singapore Airlines restore to 5 weekly with B773 with F class (that for reasons best known to themselves don't appear to want MAN pax to book it?!)
bmibaby: drop Cork, add Lourdes
lufthansa: add Stuttgart
Other route in the pipeline is Biman's 2 weekly Dhaka-MAN-JFK service.
So it's not going to be that bad a summer performance.
If we summarise what's happening this summer:
PIA an extra service to Islambad at the expense of LBA
CSA reintroduce Prague 6 weekly
easyJet new services to Sharm el Sheik, Zurich nad Mahon
Air Baltic to Vilnius and Riga
American to JFK daily
DL back on JFK daily
Flybe new Bournemouth service (and the French regional routes reintroduced)
Aer Arann reintroduce 4 weekly to Kerry, 6 weekly (or is it daily?) to Londonderry
Etihad go to 77W from June
Emirates expected to introduce A380 from sept
Singapore Airlines restore to 5 weekly with B773 with F class (that for reasons best known to themselves don't appear to want MAN pax to book it?!)
bmibaby: drop Cork, add Lourdes
lufthansa: add Stuttgart
Other route in the pipeline is Biman's 2 weekly Dhaka-MAN-JFK service.
So it's not going to be that bad a summer performance.
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we're going through the tightest period I can remember but before too long those 2 runways will be occupied as they previously were
On what possible basis is this comment made ?
BMI could not make MAN pay despite high load factors and a domestic network fed from other UK points.
BA/Virgin have no intention of expanding outside the South East.
It is highley unlikley we will get a wide range and more importantly a "sustainable" number of Asian airlines in the near term.
Air Asia ...possibly ! but hardly 20-30 flights a day !
There are vested commercial interests in global alliances that favour Heathrow, so no opportunities with say Qantas SAA etc.
The US market is pretty much tied up....
So apart from an increase in the UK IT market to Spain/Turkey etc and the "odd" new service or modest increase in capacity where on earth is the growth coming from not just to get us back to pre 2007 levels but to take us to 35m....?
I would love to believe otherwise but if you think there is a queue of long haul and even short airlines waiting to get into Manchester you are deluded.
For a variety of reason MAN missed the boat, or should I say plane !
On what possible basis is this comment made ?
BMI could not make MAN pay despite high load factors and a domestic network fed from other UK points.
BA/Virgin have no intention of expanding outside the South East.
It is highley unlikley we will get a wide range and more importantly a "sustainable" number of Asian airlines in the near term.
Air Asia ...possibly ! but hardly 20-30 flights a day !
There are vested commercial interests in global alliances that favour Heathrow, so no opportunities with say Qantas SAA etc.
The US market is pretty much tied up....
So apart from an increase in the UK IT market to Spain/Turkey etc and the "odd" new service or modest increase in capacity where on earth is the growth coming from not just to get us back to pre 2007 levels but to take us to 35m....?
I would love to believe otherwise but if you think there is a queue of long haul and even short airlines waiting to get into Manchester you are deluded.
For a variety of reason MAN missed the boat, or should I say plane !
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bmi could make MAN work but then decided to bump up prices too much so as to render their services unprofitable. However, there is scope for additional Star alliance services to be added.
I disagree about airline partnerships with BA - there is only finite room for those airlines to to keep adding to LHR frequency and capacity as they have been doing since being encouraged to leave MAN, with addtional AA routes to come over the next 5 to 10 years. We know that Qantas is not coming back but Jetstar will by looking to take up the challenge but that's 4 to 5 years away. They need the 787 to be ready now.
Virgin is hamstrung by not having enough aircraft of the right size to launch more routes outside London; it's been reported elsewhere that 2011 is expected to see Las Vegas and Antigua launched with Barbados back to 2 weekly. Having A330s and 787s will make more routes more "doable".
For low cost/low price services, both easyJet and Flybe will steadily add frequency and/or destinations. The unknown quantities are are going to be bmibaby and Jet2
I disagree about airline partnerships with BA - there is only finite room for those airlines to to keep adding to LHR frequency and capacity as they have been doing since being encouraged to leave MAN, with addtional AA routes to come over the next 5 to 10 years. We know that Qantas is not coming back but Jetstar will by looking to take up the challenge but that's 4 to 5 years away. They need the 787 to be ready now.
Virgin is hamstrung by not having enough aircraft of the right size to launch more routes outside London; it's been reported elsewhere that 2011 is expected to see Las Vegas and Antigua launched with Barbados back to 2 weekly. Having A330s and 787s will make more routes more "doable".
For low cost/low price services, both easyJet and Flybe will steadily add frequency and/or destinations. The unknown quantities are are going to be bmibaby and Jet2
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Yes and No with MAN missing the boat. BA really needed help with the regional routes 3/4 years ago - and nothing happened, which in turn killed off the JFK flight. At the same time there wasnt really enough promotion to attract the big locos.
Now it has been accepted that MAN needs EZY, and I would expect them to expand over the next couple of years, maybe to about 10 aircraft? This depends on what happens with a reborn WW and constantly changing LS.
Long haul - could anything be sustained apart from leisure routes without a reliable feeder airline??
Now it has been accepted that MAN needs EZY, and I would expect them to expand over the next couple of years, maybe to about 10 aircraft? This depends on what happens with a reborn WW and constantly changing LS.
Long haul - could anything be sustained apart from leisure routes without a reliable feeder airline??
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Nah, they ain't movin'. Too sweet over on T2.
Singapore Airlines restore to 5 weekly with B773 with F class (that for reasons best known to themselves don't appear to want MAN pax to book it?!)
As for the long haul route. I am not going to say what it was, as I don't think it would be appropriate. I can say for certain it isn't PR (who dreamt that one up ?!) or BI.
Last edited by MANFlyer; 7th Mar 2010 at 20:21.
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My concern is that there has been a seismic shift in airline strategies and that Manchester more than any other airport has been effected by this. I think a few of us have been sucked in by the smokescreen of recession with a mistaken belief that once things "pick up" everything in the garden will be lovely......i am not so sure.
I was naive enough to believe that once an airline especially long haul received saturation at Heathrow the overspill would come to Manchester, problem is I have been observing that for nigh on 25 years and it never seems to get to the tipping point.....
...first it was 5, then 10 and in some cases is now 15 services a day from LHR to JFK, Toronto, Australia, Hong Kong Tokyo, Jo burg etc etc !
Surely Manchester would at some benefit from at least a few directs ?
....and then if frequency was a problem the A380 pitches up ....amasingly frequency has not only been maintained but capacity has still increased massively, and all this despite the recession.
From the other side of the world the distance between Manchester and Heathrow must seem negligible and despite its size we suffer conversley, despite weilding massive economic clout in the region.
Sorry to bang on about this but I would have thought MANs best hope with regard to growth especially long haul, was somebody like Air India who could instantly provide 4/5 new destinations without having to fill the whole back end !
PS there is much talk of the EK380 personally I would much rather see 4/5 daily flights than an A380 !
I was naive enough to believe that once an airline especially long haul received saturation at Heathrow the overspill would come to Manchester, problem is I have been observing that for nigh on 25 years and it never seems to get to the tipping point.....
...first it was 5, then 10 and in some cases is now 15 services a day from LHR to JFK, Toronto, Australia, Hong Kong Tokyo, Jo burg etc etc !
Surely Manchester would at some benefit from at least a few directs ?
....and then if frequency was a problem the A380 pitches up ....amasingly frequency has not only been maintained but capacity has still increased massively, and all this despite the recession.
From the other side of the world the distance between Manchester and Heathrow must seem negligible and despite its size we suffer conversley, despite weilding massive economic clout in the region.
Sorry to bang on about this but I would have thought MANs best hope with regard to growth especially long haul, was somebody like Air India who could instantly provide 4/5 new destinations without having to fill the whole back end !
PS there is much talk of the EK380 personally I would much rather see 4/5 daily flights than an A380 !
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BMI could not make MAN pay despite high load factors and a domestic network fed from other UK points.
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Toledoashley
'which in turn killed off the JFK flight.'
Sorry but I do not agree with your view on the JFK link -
it was a purely operational decision for BA - and sensible
for an airline in trouble.
MM
'which in turn killed off the JFK flight.'
Sorry but I do not agree with your view on the JFK link -
it was a purely operational decision for BA - and sensible
for an airline in trouble.
MM
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Well, there was nothing left of BA when they stopped the BA flight - all they had were the London flights. With no connecting flights at either end, how can it suceed?
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