MANCHESTER - 7
Join Date: Aug 2002
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In terms of MAN Long haul is a basket case and the short haul market is little better
Even mean Gatwick is down to
Delta A332 daily ATL
US Airways A333 daily CLT
Emirates x 3
Qatar x 3
BA based B772 x 6-8
VS B744 5-6
....having lost Etihad, Continental and a host of US links. Meaning they have more flights but fewer options. Perspective is that rarest thing.
Look at Glasgow, was always going to be the next big thing too, then came the Alliances and now it's a feeder to London again with a couple of good exceptions.
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Not sure that RYR "forced" anybody to go anywhere, if its cheaper than a competitor product can you really blame them ?
...that said, has the RYR tfr made such a massive difference ?
I was thinking more in terms of the knock on effect on others services which might just about make money at the margins until "another" or "expanded" service starts down the road, which in turn erodes market share at MAN.
My more general point was whether having RYR on the doorstep is likely to put expansion off in the future thus crippling MANs potentials to recover rather than the obvious arguements on like for like tfr of moved services.
It's also just worth pointing out that whilst the figs at are Liverpool are OK under the circumstances, they themselves are almost 1m down from a year or two back...they crept into the top ten based not so much based on growth as massive declines on a larger scale elsewhere !
Re LGW - I agree Skipness but I think as a "London Airport " there will always be demand for slots, so even though it has lost a shedload of services I suspect these have all been filled with other flights, whilst not ideal I would at least rather see that, than a massive general erosion across all sectors.
Re Monthly Movements...keep them coming, they always make interesting reading and it certainly wasn't intended as a BHX dig.
...that said, has the RYR tfr made such a massive difference ?
I was thinking more in terms of the knock on effect on others services which might just about make money at the margins until "another" or "expanded" service starts down the road, which in turn erodes market share at MAN.
My more general point was whether having RYR on the doorstep is likely to put expansion off in the future thus crippling MANs potentials to recover rather than the obvious arguements on like for like tfr of moved services.
It's also just worth pointing out that whilst the figs at are Liverpool are OK under the circumstances, they themselves are almost 1m down from a year or two back...they crept into the top ten based not so much based on growth as massive declines on a larger scale elsewhere !
Re LGW - I agree Skipness but I think as a "London Airport " there will always be demand for slots, so even though it has lost a shedload of services I suspect these have all been filled with other flights, whilst not ideal I would at least rather see that, than a massive general erosion across all sectors.
Re Monthly Movements...keep them coming, they always make interesting reading and it certainly wasn't intended as a BHX dig.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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It's also just worth pointing out that whilst the figs at are Liverpool are OK under the circumstances, they themselves are almost 1m down from a year or two back...they crept into the top ten based not so much based on growth as massive declines on a larger scale elsewhere !
2009 - 4,948,046
2008 - 5,384,753
2007 - 5,520,283
2006 - 4,971,452
Last edited by dwlpl; 15th Mar 2010 at 14:17.
Poor old MAN, even though I live on the doorstep, I find myself forced to book yet another flight from Liverpool, this time Bordeaux ( Baby 1 x week ex MAN useless)
I've previously had to book MADRID (no service here), LISBON (Baby 2 x week ex MAN useless), BERLIN (no service).
I late using LPL, apart from the journey, their security queues are hopeless compared to MAN & as for baggage delivery on the return, dreadfull to say the least, but when your local huge airport with 3 terminals can't provide a service...................
I've previously had to book MADRID (no service here), LISBON (Baby 2 x week ex MAN useless), BERLIN (no service).
I late using LPL, apart from the journey, their security queues are hopeless compared to MAN & as for baggage delivery on the return, dreadfull to say the least, but when your local huge airport with 3 terminals can't provide a service...................
Join Date: Nov 1999
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I didn't realise MAN had an in-house airline. So, yes it is remiss of the airport not to operate all the services we want using their own airline. Unless you mean that the current operators at MAN are either unable or unwilling to provide services to those destinations that you want to travel at a frequency that you perceive to be correct.
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their security queues are hopeless compared to MAN & as for baggage delivery on the return, dreadfull to say the least,
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Poor old MAN, even though I live on the doorstep, I find myself forced to book yet another flight from Liverpool, this time Bordeaux ( Baby 1 x week ex MAN useless)
I've previously had to book MADRID (no service here), LISBON (Baby 2 x week ex MAN useless), BERLIN (no service).
I late using LPL, apart from the journey, their security queues are hopeless compared to MAN & as for baggage delivery on the return, dreadfull to say the least, but when your local huge airport with 3 terminals can't provide a service...................
I've previously had to book MADRID (no service here), LISBON (Baby 2 x week ex MAN useless), BERLIN (no service).
I late using LPL, apart from the journey, their security queues are hopeless compared to MAN & as for baggage delivery on the return, dreadfull to say the least, but when your local huge airport with 3 terminals can't provide a service...................
Remember that for those destinations, it is easy to connect at LHR, BRU, FRA, MUC, CDG, AMS, ZRH etc. added to the fact that air miles are available for the lucrative customers.
The only airline that could make those destinations you mentioned work more feasibly (maybe not Bordeaux) would be easyJet - but do you want them to do a Jet2 style expansion - grow massively, pull back and then realise that they can do it much better more slowly?
The economy is soon to recover, lets see how it pans out. The routes can obviously not be the most profitable from MAN as I am sure that easyJet's analysis would have led to LIS, MAD etc. being launched opposed to MUC, HEL etc.
Can I suggest you go somewhere else that IS served from MAN if you don't like LPL
Not what's available.
Connections to these type of destinations are both expensive and very time consuming for the lenghth of journey.
Unless you mean that the current operators at MAN are either unable or unwilling to provide services to those destinations that you want to travel at a frequency that you perceive to be correct
From 4 x flights a day to Berlin to Zero, From 2 x a day to Madrid to Zero & from a daily Bordeaux to 1 iffy will it run or not service. The Airport has to take some responsibility for losing these services & letting LPL run away with never ending new destinations, all we get here are additional flights to existing destinations.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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WHy should the airport take any responsibilty for passengers not booking those services that you want to take whereas they want to book on those services where there are already options for them to utilise? If MAN got those new services once over and passengers didn't use them, what makes you think that getting those sevices again will see passengers flock to use them now? i'd argue that Bordeaux would be more useful as a Flybe destination than as a bmibaby given the proliferance of French regional destinations they offer - perhaps the 1 weekly 737 in April to mid-May, 2 weekly mid-May to mid-June and 4 weekly mid-July to mid-September might see them able to operate at double the frequency as it should, theoretically, be easier to fill 70+ seats then attempt to get 130+ passengers on to those services.
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Middle East Services
The CAA Feb stats are out and I was just pondering over the Middle East figures.
Dubai 45540 up 15%
Abu Dhabi 11315 down 13%
Doha 13444 up 17%
The EK averages 407 per flight and QR 240 but as yet only Etihad
have announced an increase in capacity yet their figures seem to be
going backwards.
We know the rumours about EK but what about Qatar? There was a
mention on another site of an upgrade to a 77L, which makes no sense
what so ever.
Pete
Dubai 45540 up 15%
Abu Dhabi 11315 down 13%
Doha 13444 up 17%
The EK averages 407 per flight and QR 240 but as yet only Etihad
have announced an increase in capacity yet their figures seem to be
going backwards.
We know the rumours about EK but what about Qatar? There was a
mention on another site of an upgrade to a 77L, which makes no sense
what so ever.
Pete
Ringwayman, you miss the point.
These services operated from Manchester.
Now they operate from Liverpool.
The passengers once had to travel to MAN, now they travel to LPL.
The demand from the area was there, just that the services have moved 35 miles.
Was enough done to stop that happening?
I am only expressing my frustration at having more and more MAN flights moving to LPL.
These services operated from Manchester.
Now they operate from Liverpool.
The passengers once had to travel to MAN, now they travel to LPL.
The demand from the area was there, just that the services have moved 35 miles.
Was enough done to stop that happening?
I am only expressing my frustration at having more and more MAN flights moving to LPL.
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If the demand was there, why were the services scaled back or withdrawn? Perhaps the demand wasn't there! How many of "our" pulled Ryanair services are now operating out of Liverpool.. Bremen and.. what else? And if the airport favoured one carrier over another wouldn't every other carrier complain until they all get the same deal for reduced airport charges which subsequently leads to the airport getting less revenue to tart up the place where it's needed which is a common theme on here!
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Was enough done to stop that happening?
MAG could have a growing FR base at MAN now with jets flying to tons of un-pronounceable destinations across Europe and North Africa. Would MAG be making money? I doubt it...
Am sure it's been posted elsewhere, but a quick check of the updated BA site reveals all Shuttles cancelled during the strike.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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BA lets down Manchester customers YET AGAIN
A train and a coach can get to Manchester from Heathrow ...
Ah yes, but in the case of Virgin Trains in particular, the on-the-day turn up and travel fare is prohibitively expensive for many families. For those who cannot book in advance, is this not still the most expensive rail trunk route in Europe mile for mile?
Coach capacity is very limited unless Cockney Airways plans to charter some coaches itself on behalf of its northern customers. Is this the intention? Or will the MAN punters be abandoned on arrival at LHR as has happened SO OFTEN BEFORE with this airline? I know that a full schedule is impossible, but an effort to run a couple of rotations to rescue the worst affected PAYING customers doesn't seem unreasonable. After all, BA is already boasting to the media about how many services CAN be maintained.
It still amazes me that so many folks continue to book these LHR/LGW connections with the shockingly unreliable MAN Shuttles. But then again, Cockney Airways do seem to have the travel metasearch websites sewn up with their connections appearing ahead of or swamping most other alternatives. Perhaps there are still customers out there who unsuspectingly book the first thing they see or who are locked into archaic company travel policies. If this latest disruption prompts afew more of them to deploy some grey matter when booking from Manchester in the future, some good may yet come of this strike.
By the way, it is interesting that Willie Walsh blames his cabin crew and UNITE for this situation. I suggest that he takes a really good look in the mirror instead.
SHED.
Ah yes, but in the case of Virgin Trains in particular, the on-the-day turn up and travel fare is prohibitively expensive for many families. For those who cannot book in advance, is this not still the most expensive rail trunk route in Europe mile for mile?
Coach capacity is very limited unless Cockney Airways plans to charter some coaches itself on behalf of its northern customers. Is this the intention? Or will the MAN punters be abandoned on arrival at LHR as has happened SO OFTEN BEFORE with this airline? I know that a full schedule is impossible, but an effort to run a couple of rotations to rescue the worst affected PAYING customers doesn't seem unreasonable. After all, BA is already boasting to the media about how many services CAN be maintained.
It still amazes me that so many folks continue to book these LHR/LGW connections with the shockingly unreliable MAN Shuttles. But then again, Cockney Airways do seem to have the travel metasearch websites sewn up with their connections appearing ahead of or swamping most other alternatives. Perhaps there are still customers out there who unsuspectingly book the first thing they see or who are locked into archaic company travel policies. If this latest disruption prompts afew more of them to deploy some grey matter when booking from Manchester in the future, some good may yet come of this strike.
By the way, it is interesting that Willie Walsh blames his cabin crew and UNITE for this situation. I suggest that he takes a really good look in the mirror instead.
SHED.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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but an effort to run a couple of rotations to rescue the worst affected PAYING customers doesn't seem unreasonable.
London to Manchester is a little easier than Amsterdam -London or Warsaw-London, perhaps that was the thinking? Perhaps?
By the way, it is interesting that Willie Walsh blames his cabin crew and UNITE for this situation. I suggest that he takes a really good look in the mirror instead.
Manchester - cracking airport, almost zero commercial understanding from some backers though! Dear me.
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I am amazed that BA intend to abandon domestic services during the period of the strike. It is one thing getting to LHR for a flight but what sort of message does this send about the BA 'Hub' to those passengers arriving weary from long haul flights only to be told to find their own way to their final destination.
All it would take is one wet leased B737/A320 sized aircraft (per major domestic destination) to provide a reasonable daily service and I'm sure there are many such aircraft standing idle or underused at this time of year.
All it would take is one wet leased B737/A320 sized aircraft (per major domestic destination) to provide a reasonable daily service and I'm sure there are many such aircraft standing idle or underused at this time of year.
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Hi Skipness,
I can't make head or tail of your first paragraph in response to my 01:43 post. What on earth are you on about? Are you suggesting that this answers the points which I made?
As for your "reactionary biased" comment, save your anger for the mainstream media. I have rarely witnessed such one-sided reporting in any dispute. There are two sides to every industrial dispute, Skipness. Gain some 'commercial understanding' yourself and you may come to recognize that one day.
As for your last line, that is contemptible. Mr Skipness - does "zero commercial understanding" apply to everyone who doesn't agree with your every word, by any chance? You should lose the arrogance and read up on good management techniques.
SHED.
I can't make head or tail of your first paragraph in response to my 01:43 post. What on earth are you on about? Are you suggesting that this answers the points which I made?
As for your "reactionary biased" comment, save your anger for the mainstream media. I have rarely witnessed such one-sided reporting in any dispute. There are two sides to every industrial dispute, Skipness. Gain some 'commercial understanding' yourself and you may come to recognize that one day.
As for your last line, that is contemptible. Mr Skipness - does "zero commercial understanding" apply to everyone who doesn't agree with your every word, by any chance? You should lose the arrogance and read up on good management techniques.
SHED.
Last edited by Shed-on-a-Pole; 16th Mar 2010 at 10:46. Reason: keystroke error
Total change in topic.
Heard a rumour the other day that Etihad are increasing their frequency from MAN. Don't know destination, timings or equipment.
Probably nonsense considering the loads and the change to a 777 this year.
Anyone else heard anything?
Heard a rumour the other day that Etihad are increasing their frequency from MAN. Don't know destination, timings or equipment.
Probably nonsense considering the loads and the change to a 777 this year.
Anyone else heard anything?